Rename: The Ernest

This trope fails the basic rule that you shouldn't name a trope after a character. I had no idea what this trope was until I read the thesis. The Importance of being Ernest is not famous enough to do this with. I prpose something more descriptive like 'The Fake Dead Guy Gambit'

The play is pretty well known, just not among nerds. That doesn't excuse the name failing the One Mario Limit, but I still feel I need to call you out on your reverse Fan Myopia.

umm even after reading the trope I have no idea what this trope is suppose to be (and no I have never seen the play or whatever it is).

^^Well, I haven't read it, and even if I did, the first Ernest that would come to my mind would still probably be Ernest P. Worrell.

edited 23rd Feb '11 4:10:53 AM by SeanMurrayI

I haven't heard of this, but then I barely know anything about Oscar Wilde and he's apparently important among non-geek circles so I'm not going to knock this just yet. I mean, I made the same mistake with the The Munchhausen and I still feel embarrassed about it.

I understand the concept, basically inventing someone because it's convenient and they somehow take a life of their own. The name Ernst isn't exactly common or even has too many characters associated with the name so it could still technically work as a title base don the merit that no one else is using it. But it's a little unsearchable and non-indicative, but like I said before, it's based on how much the common person knows about this.

The play is famous, but more as a work by Oscar Wilde than because of the plot. A lot of people have heard of the play but wouldn't get the trope name. I think a character can only name a trope if they have reached the One Mario Limit, which this Ernest hasn't. I looked up Ernest on wikipedia and they're a lot of names: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest

The Ernest found in: 33 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 35 people to the wiki

Definitely not enough traffic to make renaming an issue, so I would support something that would be more indicative of the trope.

The definition could use some work too, as right now 75% of it is dedicated to the the Trope Namer.

edit: I also agree that when I hear "The Ernest", I immediately think about the one who goes to camp.

edited 23rd Feb '11 6:06:19 AM by Meeble

The name Ernst isn't exactly common or even has too many characters associated with the name so it could still technically work as a title base don the merit that no one else is using it.

Uncommon or not, there is still more than one famous Ernest out there, and the most famous Ernest in recent memory has nothing to do with this trope.

edited 23rd Feb '11 6:03:30 AM by SeanMurrayI

My first thought at the title was The Importance of being Ernest, but I dont know anything about the plot, just that it's a famous play.

And "the other Ernest" sounds like a more plausible Trope Namer than Oscar Wilde's on a site that has prominent Grandfather Clause character-named tropes The Scrappy and The Wesley. Not knowing any better, you'd think they were a Holy Trinity Of Annoying Characters or something.

Great play, btw, and the 1950s movie adaptation is also excellent.

edited 23rd Feb '11 7:00:34 AM by suedenim

Never even heard of the Trope Namer or Mr. Worrel myself, and the first Ernest that comes to mind is Hemingway.

Never heard of this trope, or it's source. The only entry on that page that I recognize is in Western Animation. The Doug example, and even that is pretty obscure.

Calling a trope The Ernest is like calling a trope The Albert or The Bob or The Kelly. I mean, come on.

Not to mention that the name in the Wilde play is "Earnest", not "Ernest". So it's not even correct.

edited 23rd Feb '11 8:26:09 AM by Madrugada

^ wait what? .... anyways this trope needs a makeover I had to find a example I knew in there to figure out exactly what this trope was. Invented Individual for a new name? (as it is I think this trope would expand quite a bit with a makeover now that I know the trope I can think of a few new ones specifically that one dwarf ep in CSI)

edited 23rd Feb '11 8:30:01 AM by Raso

The play is The Importance Of Being Earnest. Not "Ernest", like Worrell or Hemingway or Shackleton or Borgnine. It's got an "a" in it, like "sincere".

edited 23rd Feb '11 8:36:36 AM by Madrugada

Head Desk.

edited 23rd Feb '11 8:39:59 AM by Raso

^^The character in The Importance Of Being Earnest is named Ernest without the A. The trope is not named after a word in the title; it's named after a character in the work with the name Ernest.

edited 23rd Feb '11 8:41:47 AM by SeanMurrayI

I was thinking "Dead Guy Gambit", "Snowball guy" as a play off Snowball Lie or "Fictional fictional character"

The problem I have with a simple "Dead Guy Gambit" is that it sounds like Thanatos Gambit.

Dead Guy Gambit focuses entirely on the wrong part of the situation. The guy isn't really dead — he's fictional. The vital part of the trope are that the fictional person takes on a life beyond the control of his creator(s), to the point that they feel that they have to "kill" him off somehow.

So it's about killing someone who doesn't exist?

Wait, doesn't that make The Ernest a spoiler?

It's about a fictional character taking in a life of its own, to the point that people who aren't in on it don't believe that he's fictional. It often ends with the creators having to kill him to get rid of him, since everyone else thinks he's real.

The Made Up Man Gambit?

edited 23rd Feb '11 3:24:31 PM by shimaspawn