This is not a thread for bashing on religion. The forum rules on civility and complaining still apply.
This thread is meant to be a welcoming and inviting place for Atheists, Antitheists, and Agnoists to talk about their beliefs and experiences.
edited 3rd Oct '14 1:27:15 PM by Madrugada
Oh, well, that explains it then.
It's a bird.
I still don't quite get why something as personal and subjective as faith even has any kind of official doctrines in the first place. I mean, I understand how it happened, but still.
Still a great "screw depression" song even after seven years.
Back in the day religion was also considered actual facts about how the world came to be. Then we figured out they were all wrong on basically every point in this matter.
Also, social aggregation (and some unbelievers might say social control) is a big part of organized religion. It's made to give you the warm feeling of "I'm not alone, I'm part of this group!", so by definition it needs a shared idea of where exactly the group ends.
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
It's not just unbelievers who admit it's about social control. The rules aren't some secret conspiracy, they're pretty open about it. And I mean, those who say that unbelievers lack morals are claiming the same thing.
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
It's not like Scientology, where they lie about everything and they don't tell you about Xenu until you get cleared to OT3.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
It's a bird.
Like I said, I understand how it happened. There's just this weird clash between the vague, subjective experiences and the super-strict rules and ancient traditions.
"I believe in [X]!"
"How do you know that [X] is true?"
"I don't 'know'. It just feels true to me. You gotta have faith etc."
"Okay, I tried that, and now I believe in [Y]."
"But [Y] is slightly different from [X]! You heretic!"
Still a great "screw depression" song even after seven years.
This is basically world history in a nutshell.
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
Continuing on from the discussion that started in the LGBT thread: what exactly constitutes as a cult?
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
It's a bird.
This
is what the Otherwiki says about it. It's seems like a "cult" can be just about any kind of religious or social group that you think is "deviant" enough.
To me, the word has always meant "small religious group that hasn't been accepted as a mainstream religion yet", which I guess is close enough.
Still a great "screw depression" song even after seven years.
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
A religion without an army.
I think there's a pretty big gap between "what the word technically means" and "the feelings the word evokes/is meant to evoke".
Normally, the word "cult" is used to imply some sort of abusive behavior from the head (and/or his immediate underlings) towards the regular members of the religion.
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
That would still make most religions cults, considering they have the gall to completely control the sexual behaviour of their members.
Well, I mean, if one of the prerequisites for being part of group X is doing X, but a member doesn't want to do X, then they can either accept doing X if they want to be a part of group X, or make their own "I can't believe it's not group X" group X' that does everything group X does minus action X. Which is literally what already happens, except most people don't bother to change the name of their group.
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
"Making their own" in a peaceful manner is a recent development. Doing that would have resulted in being ostracized or even killed. Still happens in large parts of the world. There is no distinction between religion and cults except for their acceptance in society.
[snark]Well, you can define "cult" however you want, I just doubt you're the English Language Prescriptivist Immortal to decide what words get to mean. But it's okay if you want to use different meanings for words, as long as you're talking to yourself or present them beforehand in case you're going into a discussion about it.[/snark]
It's just so matters that distinction is an important distinction. [snark]It's like saying the dinstinction between "dry" and "wet" is the amount of water involved.[/snark] Furthermore, as each word can have different meanings in colloquial and formal usages, the differences between the words are also different. So, well, if you want to argue that formally there shouldn't be any differences between "religion" and "cult", argue away, I'm not a linguist or a sociologist to disagree, just remember the word will still be used as it is colloquially irregardless of your opinion.
It's a bird.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
What do you think the word "cult" means?
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
It would be like saying that homosexuality isn't a sexuality because it's less common and not as accepted as heterosexuality.
Labeling somethin a cult is a ploy by established bullshiters to discredit their competitors.
edited 15th Feb '16 12:20:08 PM by Antiteilchen
Look, it's an arbitrary line. It's like deciding when a relationship stops being a troubled relationship and starts being a toxic relationship. You look for red flags, things that are perfectly normal when alone but become suspicious when in great number, and after a certain point you draw a line.
Something being or not being toxic is always about quantity, whether it's a cult, an hobby, a personal relationship or anything, really.
edited 15th Feb '16 12:49:05 PM by Cozzer
New account is voidify
Cult is a term used by mainstream belief-systems (religions) towards the (usually less popular) belief-systems they strongly disagree with and don't want to be strawman-lumped in with. I can understand Christians not wanting to be associated with the Church of Happyology, nobody does.
edited 15th Feb '16 1:23:20 PM by SmartGirl333
It seems like a lot of the sources as to what constitutes a "cult" are questionable and more concerned more with the "wrongness" of said "cults" in terms of belie than any abusive practices (the Christian countercult movement, for instance). The definition of a cult that I've seen (financial or sexual abuse of members, isolation from outsiders, etc.) can apply to many historical groups at least in part. I recognized early on how defining something as "bad" in some way inevitably applies to something else the definers won't intend (such as parts of established religions here).
edited 15th Feb '16 1:31:13 PM by Fireblood
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
I meant quantity in terms of how many people believe in it. That's what make things "normal." But cult does not denotate anything morally or ethically worse than religion, just that it is a less commonly held believe system. That people believe less commonly held believes are worse is an Appeal to Popularity fallacy.
I was writing a response to this line of discussion, but real life got in my way. I don't think I can continue this conversation right now, sorry. I'll leave you with what I managed to write in reply to Corvidae:
Now, coloquially,
Aspie and 90's cartoon enthusiast
Hello, I am Troperfrom95 and I am a passive Atheist.
Ya, I'm weird like that...
Elfive, I think that's a pretty Evangelical idea. It doesn't reflect Catholic doctrine, say.
edited 10th Feb '16 5:17:45 PM by Fireblood