Why are U.S. foreign military bases good/bad?

I'm not so sure about protection...screw bullshit like "extraterritorial rights".

To be honest, I wouldn't be so against stuff like foreigners having military bases in places they're not welcome to if it wasn't for the fact that foreign soldiers are so rape happy all the time, and many of the times they do commit something that crosses Moral Event Horizon, they get off with insultingly small punishments.

A child rapist should get much more than just 4 years in prison. A hit-and-run should result in much more than just 2 years.

I know the japanese deserve punishment for what they did in WWII, but this is just going too far, especially since many of the victms in Okinawa probably did not have anything to do with it.

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PS-don't bother telling me that only a few of the soldiers are like that, I know that already, but if you can't even properly discipline a soldier and tell them to NOT harass the locals, and punish those who do, do you have any rights to run around like children and play world police?

edited 17th Feb '11 6:12:18 PM by Signed

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...americans are so rape happy all the time

Really now? Where the fuck do you get this?

I changed it to foreign soldiers since there have been many cases in the past anyways, but you can't deny the fact that it happens way more often than it should.

The biggest problem of course is that those foreigners are rarely ever tried under the laws of the country they committed their crimes in.

This is partially why I believe that US consulate should be tried under Pakistani Law and take whatever punishment is coming to him, even if it's death. The other of course is the fact that he committed a crime...on foreign soil, hence should be subjected to foreign law.

edited 17th Feb '11 6:11:00 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

We...aren't punishing Japan. This is how we protect them. The punishment was our rewriting their constitution so they couldn't defend themselves. Look, it's unfortunate that rape happens, and American soldiers do it. But that means there needs to be better discipline, not that the premise is flawed. That said, we don't need some of our bases. I mean, who would ever attack England? What's the point? (Sorry, British tropers) It's not a world leader, and it isn't threatening to anyone. I realize we use it as a transportation stop, but we can just fly over the place to the continent. It's just not worth it.

Of course, I could be wrong. What do we use the bases in the UK for?

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

It's hard to tell foreigners not to be naughty when they know that their punishment will be very lenient though...

Don't stuff like gang rape, subsequent murder of an entire family, and burning the evidence usually entail death penalty or something? Or does it not count since they're non-americans?

As for protection...Japan have a much superior military than North Korea. They're much weaker than China, but do you think China would risk their PR to attack Japan? It'll be even more controversial than US invading a the middle east. As for South Korea, they're busy dancing with North Korea.

...something tells me my source is a bit innacurate though, since it placed China's military above Russia's, and Turkey's above Israel's, both of which I kinda doubt.

I remember Israel having a pretty competent military, and China, being big, shouldn't be bigger than Russia's unless times have changed.

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I wish I had a 'What If' Machine now.

What if China started to invade or take bits of Japan, I wonder what the emotional reaction of most country would be if they were personified...Korea might smirk since it IS Japan being invaded afterall. Most of the chinese might cheer, with a few protesting China becoming He Who Fights Monsters, but I wonder what the reaction of all the other countries would be like.

edited 17th Feb '11 6:28:46 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

^^ I think we have bases in Britain because they're one of our closer NATO allies, but I coudl be wrong.

^ If China decided to take bites out of Japan, they'd have problems doing so - their military, although quite large, is primarily defensive in nature, and Japan has some top-notch defenses in place to deter an invading force. It would be bloody, very costly, and thus extremely stupid for China to do that.

It would be even more stupid for Japan to invade China.

edited 17th Feb '11 6:33:10 PM by pvtnum11

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

I think your source is giving more importance to numbers than training. China's military is larger than Russia's, just less capable, with less nukes. Same for Turkey.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

^^ It's stupid...but that's what the "What If Machine" is there for...no matter how ridiculous, it'll happen.

And I'm mainly curious to see the emotional response of the rest of the world. Would it be "ha! Serves them right finally! Laser-Guided Karma ho!" or would it be "children should not inherit the sins of their father...even if the children are outright in denial of their father's sins"

edited 17th Feb '11 6:51:13 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Because they are joint bases. Those aren't Mildenhall AFB and Lakenheath AFB, the two bases we have in England are RAF Mildenhall and RAF Lakenheath. They have a large US presence in them, but they are jointly ran, and owned by the British Government. Security Forces and the RAF Military Police jointly conduct law enforcement and security duties together.

edited 17th Feb '11 7:16:26 PM by Barkey

The way Japan counts their spending on military is kind of strange, as they don't count salaries and other odd things, so that their military spending is around 1% of their GDP.

Also, this

Basically, the bases are paid for and, while most have some small portion of nationalist who want them to go away, most government officials recognize that they soldier's money in, gain cash from base dues, and are more good than bad. There certainly isn't a popular movement against the bases in Germany, Japan or the UK. Many are jointly owned and serve their host countries needs as an official arm of their host nation.

edited 17th Feb '11 7:31:45 PM by Roman

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They are pretty well trained troops. The Japanese Navy comes here to train every year, real nice guys.

Don't forget that the main objectives we're defending in the orient are probably Taiwan and South Korea, rather than Japan, but Japan makes an excellent staging point. I honestly doubt anything will ever happen, but it's all about brinksmanship. The main places I think shutting down our base network would be best are probably western Europe (there's no monolithic USSR to defend against since many ex-Warsaw Pact powers are now in the EU and even Russia's in NATO, plus Europe could squash the mideast like a gnat if they tried anything) and the US (even with the shut downs, there are far too many.)

Signed, your histrionics over rapist soldiers sound like the sort of thing people say about violent computer games and television, stop to think about your perspective here.

Eric,

Yeah.. As our local subject matter expert on criminal behavior in the military, the population ratio of rapists in the military to the American population is about the same.

People are people, it's just that soldiers raping people make for dramatic headlines.

If we didn't have bases in Europe, where the fuck would I of gotten Döner kebab ?!?

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"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

What do those examples have to do with the US having bases overseas? If you want to talk about extraterritorial rights you should start a thread about it.

Well, it does sound like Imperialism using profit motive to justify it. I mean, the Government is essentially manipulating what every country wants to serve its own interests in oil and resources. They let us come on in and influence politics because we have a military base there, we let them...um, have a thriving economy and be a bit indebted to us in the process.

These bases would also be useful if the region changes in leadership, and the United States does not like this new leadership, and would be a handy base for an assassination. Its something just up the alley of the CIA. And I think its been done before.

We are essentially spreading Christianity, as the old imperialist powers were, or spreading Communism like the USSR did, but put in "Democracy" in place of Christianity or Communism.

^^ Because that is the reason why any crimes committed by foreigners in military bases are taken so lightly. Do anything you want, even if the crime is done on foreign soil, chances are, they will be punished under the system of the country they came from. If that isn't being arrogant and some other word I can't think of, I don't know what is.

Politics....it's always about the politics.

edited 17th Feb '11 8:25:55 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Actually, a foreigner committing a crime on a military base is taken seriously' Barkey could go into detail about that.

FYI, being overseas isn't a ''do what you want and get away with it' pass; rules and regulations still apply; people get punished.

edited 17th Feb '11 8:28:25 PM by Kino

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