Rape Culture

Thread Hop Okay not really, I skimmed.

Surely there's a difference between "It's your fault" and "Here's some things you can do to make sure it doesn't happen again"?

There is ample difference, of course, but the level of caution here advocated does not seem to be especially feasible.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

Blue: Okay, granted, they might have wanted it (though I seriously doubt that), but even in that case, in every instance, they had the amazing self control to not do it. (Amazing, I know).

EDIT: Found it in my old textbook! It's a 1986 survey done by Neil Malamuth (it doesn't list the title).

I also found this. If you don't have access to the full text... one of the things they find is 30% of men find a woman in pain more sexually appealing than a woman showing pleasure.

And Shrimp, consider this argument: All women ever want out of men is money. Any man who invites a woman over to a dinner/movies/his house is giving implicit permission for them to run off with his wallet and buy twenty pairs of (really expensive) shoes. If any man is the victim of credit card fraud or identity theft perpetrated by a woman, it's his own fault for trusting those bitches.

Sounding ridiculous yet? And there's a big difference between looking both ways between crossing the road and being convinced everyone in the world is out to rape you.

edited 21st Feb '11 12:49:15 AM by zoulza

Why would I bother to contemplate that? It is irrelevant to the issue at hand and is poorly metaphorically constructed.

It's amazing how I have had a male housemate for five years, and currently live with two of them. And yet there has been a complete absence of rape going on. Even when they come into my bedroom, or when I am falling over drunk!

Ah but the thing is, what about all the men that don't think what they are doing is rape? That's what the common perception of rape has done, it's reduced rape to the image of some violent sociopath hiding out in a dark alley. So when a keeps going even after his girlfriend says "Not tonight, I want to sleep" he doesn't think of it as rape, or himself as a rapist.

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That'd probably fall under ignoring the message. I agree that the gulf between the lurid brutality that culture and media presents, and what frequently goes on in real life, is part of the problem.

edited 21st Feb '11 12:55:18 AM by DarkDecapodian

Aww, did I hurt your widdle fee-fees?

Speaking as a guy who just spent two days in a hotel room with a hot redhead - I'd say this is the situation a majority of the time. Those of us who aren't douchebags are fully capable of being respectful and having self control.  ^*

^{Well, over my actions at least - my mouth tends to run off and leave me behind.}

 ^*

^{I sat here and stared at this for a good five minutes, but I can't think of a better way to phrase this.}

How are you sure they've never wanted to do something? Yes, I understand that wanting to do something, and doing it, are different, and I'm glad you have upstanding roommates.

 ^*

^{I think you left the word "man" out of that sentance.}

How often does the woman in this situation classify herself as a victim of rape, as opposed to just being unsatisfied with a pushy/unfulfilling boyfriend?  ^*

^{I ask because I've heard this complaint, and she wasn't complaining about being raped, just that he was pushy. Also been on the receiving end of this from my wife more than once.}

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

Wanting to pursue a sexual relationship is not the same as wanting to rape someone, no?

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

Of course it's not. Maybe it's my inherent bias on the subject, but I'm getting the impression that several people here think "He has never made a move on me" = "He doesn't want to have sex with me" and that is not true.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

Five years and he never even tried to rape you once? He must either be gay or superman. You should tell people, set a good example.

edited 21st Feb '11 2:06:19 AM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid

I may be using a different definition of "accident," but on the idea of rape being counted as an accident like a car crash, how does it count as rape if it's a complete accident? So far as I know, rape involves the rapist WANTING to have sex with the other person. Accidentally sticking something into another person's genitals without meaning to probably wouldn't count as rape in that sense. Just the same, using the "car crash" analogy that was brought up, it is very possible to hit someone with a car by accident, accident implying that the killing was unintentional. If it was intentional, such as purposely chasing someone down with a car, that wouldn't be a car crash accident, that would be a homicide.

On the subject of being drunken, as drunk drivers who kill people are held accountable, shouldn't a person who has drunken sex be held accountable, especially when the other party is unwilling? Being an asexual teetotaler, I don't have any personal experience with drunken sex, but I wouldn't call it an "accident" to have sex with someone while drunk unless one was completely delusional and thought they were doing something else.

Given that I'm asexual, there may be things about the human sex drive that I'm missing here, but is it really that hard for someone who wants to have sexual release to at least make sure the other person wants to have sex too? Doesn't something like masturbation also provide sexual release? True, that's frowned on in US culture, but there really isn't anything biologically harmful about masturbation (at least no more than actually having sex, so far as I know), that just goes back to culture and the idea that "men should want to have REAL sex!" that has been mentioned already in this thread.

Yes, there is the possibility of honestly misunderstanding the other person's desires, but I'm not sure how common that is compared to the rapist just assuming that he/she has the right to have sex with whoever he/she is raping.

edited 21st Feb '11 9:32:25 AM by Rainbow

@Rainbow: Usually, rape isn't about sex. It's about power.

Most rapists (of both genders) do it to feel in charge, in control, to hold power over somebody else. For example, homosexual prison rape isn't done because by closeted gays, it's done by guys that want to humiliate and dominate another guy, to teach them who's boss.

Granted, a few people are doing it for the sex, but even then it's not usually done with the mindset of "I'm so horny", it's done with the mindset of "that bastard turned me down, I'll show him".

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

"Usually, rape isn't about sex. It's about power." - Drunk Girlfriend

A questionable assumption, at best. I've often heard that proponents of that assumption tend not to give sociobiological theories on sexual abuse enough of a fair hearing.

At the very least, that assumption shouldn't be relied on.

@Neo: Do you have anything other than a youtube video with a psychedelic intro to back that up?

Because I have a dozen other websites that show otherwise.

edited 21st Feb '11 9:54:45 AM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

I don't buy the "power" argument: it seems more informed by the victim's POV than anything else.

Enjoy the Inferno...

As opposed to established assertions about rape? Whatever, here's a wikipedia article.

Come to think of it, this particular sub-subject should probably get its own thread, I guess.

edited 21st Feb '11 9:55:16 AM by neoYTPism

Then again, power does explain prison rape a lot better than pretty much anything else.

@Neo: If you want to argue from that angle, I would like to point out that animals also engage in "rape like behavior" with members of their own sex or members of different species as a way to prove dominance.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

I think power play can come into prison rape, but I think a lot of that is also down to horniness plus pragmatism.

Enjoy the Inferno...

Yes, but four out of five categories of rape are about hurting or dominating the victim. Only one of them pertains to rape solely for sexual pleasure.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Well then, if it's also about power, then all the more that it shouldn't be counted as being an "accident" to be raped. I was mainly objecting to Shrimpus putting being raped on the same level as being accidentally hit by a car while riding a bike, when it should be more akin to someone purposely chasing a victim down with a car with the intent to run them over.

It is interesting that other animals do sexual-like behaviors with an intent of proving dominance rather than to get sexual pleasure. For a personal example, when Aggie (my first dog) was still alive, Diana would frequently hump her butt. Considering that Diana often did other things with the intent of dominating Aggie (such as shoving her away from food and from getting our attention), and that both dogs were spayed as puppies and never went into heat, I highly doubt Diana was humping Aggie out of trying to get her to have lesbian dog sex.

What are these categories then, DG?

Also, your links (at least the ones that worked) merely assert "rape is about power" without actually backing up the assertion. If anything, the dogmatic, mantra-like way it does this just makes me question the assertion more.

edited 21st Feb '11 10:09:31 AM by MRDA1981

Enjoy the Inferno...

The Groth Typology breaks it down into Anger, Power, and Satistic type rapes. Sociobiology adds the fourth type of "Rape for pleasure or sexual gain".

Anything more than that really will need a psychology text.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Who says it has to be one or the other? What seems most likely to me is that rapists are people who conflate sex with power. That's what we theorize the cultural memes classified as rape culture are teaching people; that's what we want to dismantle.

In my group therapy (full of young girls), I got told "rape isn't about how attractive you are, it's about how weak you look" over and over again. I don't doubt that it's true, but it feels almost like they tell you that as reassurance.