Nietzsche: What is said and what is true

I have to admit, I had never read anything on Nietzsche and most of the nihilism I read about is mostly the butchered version of it but to those that I read and understand his philosophy on life, what exactly was his intentions? What exactly was the point of the Ubermensch, the Last Man, "God Is Dead" and his other ideas?

edited 11th Feb '11 5:45:49 PM by G.G.

Someone is going to come in here and shoot you for saying he's a Nihilist. Someone else is going to shoot that person.

/raises hand

I would be honored to do the second.

Hm, I don't seem to have a time machine or mind-reading equipment. Guess you're out of luck!

I guess I have to read the books to find out.

I could explain and will. I just don't quite feel like it at the moment. If only the old Nietzsche thread wasn't nuked...

Consindering that he got into a mental asylum in his last years, this is a very conflicting question...

He liked to ramble about Dionysian and Apollonian tendencies like it actually meant anything.

Well, in - for example -literature interpretation they do mean alot. Appollonian stands for the rational, logical, not emotion controlled while Dyonisian is for chaos, emotion, abandon and so forth. We did the stuff when we read "Death in Venice" ....

The tough thing about him is that he changed his mind a lot. He didn't have one main position, unlike most philosophers.

He has lots of contradictory points, all of which are quoteable and (for german philosophy) quite easy to read.

In PUA words, "Logic Mode" VS "Non-logic Mode". Logic mode is that communication mode based on straightforwardness, plain meaning, and. in the extreme, technical and mathy stuff. Non-logic mode is all about roundabouts and suggestion and connotation and double-entendre and ambiguity and mind games. One of the first stuff you have to do when picking up ladies is getting them out of Logic Mode ASAP. Worked wonders for me. Now think of what it means if you expand the "talking" VS "flirting" dynamic to the rest of human activity.

Also, if you want to understand Nietzsche, read Genealogy Of Morals, his easiest book, and the one where he was actually trying to get his mesage accross rather than playing elitist in-games. Zarathustra is also a great read. Then once you have finished that, go watch Gurren Lagann. Lots of stuff that didn't quite make sense will click.

You've got to wonder what Nietzsches reaction would have been to Gurren Lagann.

Well, in - for example -literature interpretation they do mean alot. Appollonian stands for the rational, logical, not emotion controlled while Dyonisian is for chaos, emotion, abandon and so forth. We did the stuff when we read "Death in Venice" ....

Yeah, I am aware that the only serious application possible for it is lit crit, and I don't think it's ever meaningful to use the concepts.

... Actually I have no idea.

I think he'd, like, cum or something.

I'm really not sure if lit crit and philosophy can be neatly devided from each other. There're many intersections and other philosophers tended to be active in lit crit too.

I have barely read a bit of Also Sprach Zarathustra and.... Ubermensh is apparently the idea of a succesor to humanity, something better than humans, but it is not human because it has none of our problems(subconcious collectism, peer pressure, unable to be properly independant if they want, etc).
There is a reason why Ubermensh is assosiated with Eugenics :P

edited 14th Feb '11 2:34:04 AM by del_diablo

"subconcious collectism, peer pressure, unable to be properly independant if they want" I don't see how that's related to Eugenetics.
As far as my (very poor) understanding of the concept goes it's more about choosing your own way and morals rather than adhering to outdated conventional values you do not question. You make up your own Blue-and-Orange Morality and reject values you don't agree with.

What happens if you choose values that are similar to the current ones, even after you have questioned them?

I seriously don't know. I'm really no expert on the thing. Anyone able to help out?

myrdschaem: The Ubermensch would be "strong", "independant", etc. And it could happen with genetical engineering.
Hence, it is "inspiration" even if its unrealtion: Of course correlation does not imply relationship.

Correlation doesn't imply causation. In itself, it is already a relationship.

Also, Nietzsche meant strength and independence in a psychological and social and moral sense, not it a physical sense: one can be physically strong, and yet so weak in one's heart: example: Shoolyard Bully.

I don't see how independent relates to any genetical feature. And strong has many meanings.

Fact is, sadly, Nietzsche's philosophy was adapted by the Nazis to further and fit their cause and - as other things - twisted in the progress. (Another example in two words: Aryan Jesus). The work is in large parts pretty contradictory and mind screwy and has been linked to alot of different influecences Other Wiki

Association of Nietzsche's work with Nazism is mostly the work of his sister. She added forgeries to his work and erased some of it. Her compilation of his work on The Other Wiki is described with: "This version has been judged more than dubious" The WIll to Power. Just for the bare bones of it.

: My interprention is that Nietsche also was on the other side of the bar: So long we are "human", our "problems" will not go away because the root of the problems are human.
Disagree? I can live with that.
Eugenics? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics It is what I interprented it as: A political direction where the "genetical strenght" of a population is the priority. A modern view of the topic would result in "wait until we get the tech to get rid of the bad genes" instead of what meager tools they had during the ealier ages(selective breeding).
Basically: If you are for improve the genetical code of humanity, you are for Eugenics. Nietzche argues that humans problem are too human, and the Ubermensch would not suffer a lot of those problems, hence the Ubermensch is not human, but could be made with a bit of genetical well directed thinkering.

With all the Eugenics and Genetic Engineering associated with supermen, the Übermensch does not actually mean Transhumanism: blame the Nazis and their literal interpretation of the "Übermensch = Superman" for that. And I don't know what ol'Friedrich would think about Transhumanism. On one side, he (being the Romantic as always on the sliding scale of Romanticism Versus Enlightenment) would criticize transhumanists (most of whom are on the optimistic end of the Enlightenment) and call them "wide eyed idealists", on the other hand, he would gladly take the chance to get rid of his syphilis and become the Magnificent Bastard he oh so envisioned.

Maybe.

Also, personally, I partly blame Nietzsche himself for the Edit War on the Übermensch page. He contradicted himself and horribly lacked notability.

edited 4th Aug '11 4:05:36 PM by memememememe