Hard split?: Boss Dissonance

I think there are enough of both varieties to make separate tropes. But if we do so, the "hard level, easy boss" one should have a name distinct from Anticlimax Boss.

Obscene Incline Boss.

Downhill Breeze Boss.

Likey? No likey?

edited 31st Jan '11 11:23:01 PM by Scardoll

Those could be mistaken for difficulty curves in just the bosses, or in a single boss fight. The names need to be clear that the levels are a different difficulty.

The simpler the better for me.

Hard Level Easy Boss, Easy Level Hard Boss

I'm fine with Hard Level Easy Boss/Easy Level Hard Boss.

For reference, Anticlimax Boss is when the boss is easier than his plot buildup, whereas Hard Level Easy Boss is when the boss is easier than his gameplay buildup. So, nice clear distinction there for the List of Subtle Trope Distinctions when the split goes live (assuming we do split).

edited 31st Jan '11 11:49:47 PM by troacctid

Keep in mind it's plural. Anticlimax Boss is a single (Plot important) easy boss. Boss Dissonance (Mario Style) is hard game, easy bosses.

Eh. What if a game is not consistent in its bosses' dissonance? Wouldn't a dissonance in difficulty likely to be caused by an error in design judgement, therefore unlikely to affect a whole game?

Well, then you'd just have a single Breather Boss, or That One Boss.

No objections to the hard split, to stay on topic.

Under that light, I begin to doubt whether this whole trope is necessary at all.

Well, what about the current examples? Perhaps not all of them belong (I certainly can't judge as I haven't played all the listed games!) but, at minimum, both Trope Namers seem to be good examples of games with Boss Dissonance over an entire game. It's not necessarily poor design; it can arise naturally from the type of game it is.

While I don't mind a hard split, I don't outright think the trope needs it.

As well, I do think it is a trope where the bosses are much harder/easier than the rest of the game.

Though examples where the bosses are "all over the place" may have to be examined, to make sure it isn't just a few tough and a few easy bosses, which doesn't sound noteworthy.

Well, then you'd just have a single Breather Boss, or That One Boss.

No objections to the hard split, to stay on topic.

Hmm, no. Breather Boss and That One Boss may overlap with Boss Dissonance, naturally, but there is no direct relation. If That One Boss come after That One Level there is no Boss Dissonance, but it doesn't mean it is less of a That One Boss.

Boss Dissonance are about a dissonance about the level and its boss. The boss aloe doesn't qualify for the trope.

Also, I don't see why Boss Dissonance must only happen when it apply for the entire game. Sometimes it may be like this, due to game desing (as it is in Mario and Kirby , but not aways. For example, In The Legend Of Zelda Ocarina Of Time the Water Temple is universaly regarded as That One Level of the game. Yet, its boss is painfully easy (it miniboss is harder!). A perfect example of Boss Dissonance, even if the rest of the game has bosses and their levels in a more even level.

edited 8th Feb '11 6:40:31 PM by Heatth

Then that's a Breather Boss.

You are right, Breather Boss and That One Boss don't require the preceding level to be dissonant. Still, a one-level Super-tough boss, or a super-easy boss, would be either of those two.

I suppose what you are trying to say is that a game could have, say, a hard level, easy boss, but not be so easy it's a Breather and/or Anticlimax Boss. Or, alternatively, could have an easy level, hard boss that isn't That One Boss. I'm not sure those are worthy of mention, or indeed, if it even happens enough. Especially as that point you could probably put a level from every game that ever existed in Boss Dissonance. I'm sure there was one level where the boss seemed unusually tougher, or unusually easier, than the preceding level.

I don't really feel the need to make it a requirement for Boss Dissonance to affect the entire game. Makes much more sense to me if we apply it to a stage/boss pair. If a game does that constantly, it's still Boss Dissonance, only more prominently so.

Therefore we have:

Anticlimax Boss: We're led to believe it's a strong boss. It isn't. That One Boss: A boss which, when compared to other bosses, particularly frustrating. Breather Boss: A boss which, when compared to other bosses, particularly easy. Boss Dissonance: A boss which, when compared to its stage/gameplay buildup, particularly: a) Hard Level Easy Boss: Easy. b) Easy Level Hard Boss: Frustrating.

Although I could be missing something.

I'm worried about too much overlap, that every boss listed under Anticlimax and Breather Boss will also end up being listed under Boss Dissonance. Ditto many One Bosses.

I think Anticlimax Boss is another thing altogether. It's story related. That One Boss is far more than just Boss Dissonance. His level could also be hard (That One Level), in which case he won't be a Boss Dissonance example.

Now Breather Boss usually overlaps. What about morphing Breather Boss into Hard Level Easy Boss?

Boss Dissonance is a Super-Trope, should be example-less.

Super BUMP.

I'm not sure I agree with Mario being an example, anyway. Some games, maybe, but it's had some pretty nasty bosses at times (especially Mario 2 and 3, IIRC.) And there have been a few Kirby games with easy bosses, too — those series are really too big and varied to use as the dividing line for something like this.

I'd like to bump this one up since it seems doing a split with two easy to remember names shouldn't be that hard.

I agree with the split with the simplified names given, and I have a good argument against merging with Breather Boss - while a Breather Boss is a requirement for Hard Level Easy Boss, the "hard level" is not a requirement for the Breather Boss.

Let's take the Breather Level. We're in the middle of the game, and we're giving the players an entire level to take a break. What do you stick at the end? If the boss is about as easy as everything else in the level, he still qualifies as a Breather Boss, but obviously doesn't qualify as a Hard Level Easy Boss. An example from the Breather Level article would be the examples from The Legend Of Zelda.

For that matter, there's the fact that the boss doesn't have to be easy - it just has to be easier than the level it's involved with. Stick a resonably-balanced boss at the end of That One Level, and you'll have this trope despite the boss not actually being a Breather Boss.

There is now a page action crowner for this trope here. Feel free to edit and add more options as you see fit. I may have made an error in explaining the various options here, so I would definitely appreciate it if someone would check my work as well.

I'm indifferent to whether it get split or not, but I would strongly like to stamp out the names 'Mario Type' and 'Kirby Type' completely; they're totally non-indicative and, depending on which games from their series you've played and your own personal experiences, potentially actively misleading.

Both series are extreme long-runners who have had installments with easy levels and hard bosses, and installments with hard bosses and easy levels, as well as various combinations of the two. In particular, as the page notes, there are plenty of Mario games where the bosses are as hard as the levels or harder.

And in Kirby games, it often depends on what power you bring with you — most bosses can be a cinch with the right one.

Remember that this trope is at least somewhat subjective — some people will find a level easy and struggle with the boss; other people will find the same level difficult but breeze right through the boss at the end. Even using individual games as names for the types would be potentially problematic; using two series that have both constantly reinvented themselves and changed radically in difficulty level throughout their lifespan is silly.

(And, again, Kirby is a particularly terrible one to use for the namer, since most of the time, its boss difficulty depends on what you bring into the fight.)

edited 11th Oct '11 1:08:31 AM by Aquillion

^ That is a good reason to avoid numbering/naming the bullets at all in most soft splits. People start referring to them by their item number, forgetting that it may not make sense to someone who doesn't have a life ruined by tropes.

Considering the age, is it a good time to call this crowner?

Yeah, we can call this. So we should make two crowner, one for the name of each type to split. Will be handled one at a time, of course.