Objects of faith and the supernatural

Okay, I toss text books and formulary out. Happy?

There was a Doctor Who story where a Soviet soldier repelled a vampire by waving a star emblem at it. The same episode also featured a priest who lost the ability to repel them with a Bible when he lost his faith.

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It would depend on how the supernatural works in your universe. Is it faith itself that repells the supernatural, faith in a particular subset of things that oppose something within the nature of the vampire or zombie or whatever, or does faith somehow tap into a higher power external to the user? In the first case, then anything you believe in could work. In the second, the author would have decide whether believing in a high school physics book or whatever would fall into the "repels vampires" category. In the third case, it'd be up to the higher power you tap into.

Some stories I've heard about alternate power of faith:

• There's a story where a woman was injured in an accident and asked the paramedics to retrieve a bible from a bag so she could hold it. Unfortuinately, the only book the paramedics could find at the scene was a copy of Lady Chatterley's Lover. The paramedics gave it to her.
• There's a fairy tale about a village that was cursed. The cure involved finding a unicorn, but unicorns will only cooperate with a virgin. But there were no virgins in the area. So a local prostute proposed an alternate plan: she would be tied to a tree, and when the unicorn attacked her, the men would use nets to capture the unicorn. But the unicorn did not attack. She asked it why. The unicorn told her that even though it regarded her as a foul being, the unicorn did not have the heart to attack a creature with such unselfish intentions. The men end up killing the unicorn, and the whole town is killed by a poisoned well, except the woman.

edited 31st Jan '11 12:49:52 PM by FrodoGoofballCoTV

If it's faith itself that repels a vampire, then atheists probably have that venue closed to them, because I can't see a skeptic stare a vampire in the face and truly believe that it doesn't exist or won't hurt them. So, out come the wooden stakes and other violent means I suppose.

"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."

Would firm belief that you're powerless and the vampire will eat your face in fact repel it? And if it does, would that shake said faith enough to let it eat your face anyway? And then make you expect to get eaten, doubt it, expect it again...

Stick some magnets on that vampire and you've got an AC generator as good as the Buttered Cat.

This reminds me of something. One of the post-hoc justifications real-life prononents of the supernatural use to rationalize their inability to reliably prove their case to skeptics is that the phenomena doesn't work around disbelievers; that their skepticism sends out some sort of bad vibes that drive away the supernatural phenomena, similar to the Anti-Magic powers of the DCU character Dr. Thirteen. So there's one scenario where a nonbeliever wouldn't necessarily need a symbol to ward off vampires.

But if the issue is vampires being repelled by faith in general, then rules saying that vampires are impossible wouldn't have to be true; you could repel vampires with the power of Flat Earth Atheism

Some athiests are secular humanists, so they might repel vampires with the power of self-belief.

Funny, I just read the part in Changes where Harry does exactly that.

There's a story about a famous phycisist - I think Bohr or Heisenberg - who had a horseshoe hanging above his door for good luck. When someone asked him: 'I thought you don't believe in the supernatural?', he replied: 'I don't, but someone told me it works nonetheless'.

Being an atheist doesn't make you necessarily ignorant of the power of symbols, or incapable of having faith in the power of symbols. (An atheist patriot could still use a flag of his country, for example.) As for myself, I wear a snake-shaped ring on my left hand, representing my faith that knowledge of good and evil is a good thing to have if you want to exercise your free will. It's obviously a symbol borrowed from the abrahamic religions, but it doesn't mean that I follow one of them.

Another interesting question would be whether holy ground would work for me and my heathen brethren. Old churches, mosques and temples still leave me in awe, and they certainly feel like places of power. But for me that's more because of the faith and ingenuity invested in building them, and the resulting beauty. (Actually, a lot of architecture leaves me feeling this way - old museums especially. I wonder if an atheist could find refuge from vampires in a natural history museum. Or the Louvre.)

Cheers, kurushio

Heh, there's a "coexist" ad right on top of the page right now.

^ouroboros?

Hmmm, I would probably repel the creature with a talisman like this◊. Okay, no I wouldn't...

I'm not sure what I'd use, actually. Probably an object that I feel strong meaning towards or something I feel is connected to the universe somehow. Or a copy of On The Origin Of Species.

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time

Wave money at the supernatural, problem fuckin' solved.

Fight smart, not fair.

Why do you need an object of faith? Can't you believe in yourself?

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

@Holy ground: That would be a nice twist of the idea. Maybe a christian is protected because they have faith in their protection and the atheist is protected because he has faith in human achievement? But would christians be protected in museums? And what about those small new churches - they're hardly awe inspiring.

I'd use the symbol of Hedon. I don't have a picture of it handy, though, so I can't show you all. Pity, it looks very cool.

At one point I read something in which it was the vampire's faith that did it; you had to use a crucifix on a Christian vampire, a Star of David on a Jewish vampire, etc. Fairly certain a rational empiricist vampire would be unstoppable in that case.

Also, what if I completely believe I can kill the vamp in hand-to-hand combat? Would that make it happen?

Also also, I believe that the human species is destined to become immortal Sufficiently Advanced Alien s with a universe-spanning empire, and that death is not necessarily part of the natural order of life. What would that do to the vampire?

Also also also, confirmation bias et cetera.

edited 1st Feb '11 7:07:40 AM by Diamonnes

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.

@kurushio: It was Niels Bohr.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

Thanks, didn't remember where I read about it.

@Kino: No, no Ourobos. Knowledge of good and evil eating each other wasn't what I was looking for. It's a spiral-shaped ring.

Hmm, I wonder if something like the freemason's pythagoras symbol would work, too.

A Pythagorean waving a ruler would be almost as good as Marxist.

"Atheism is the religion whose followers are easiest to troll"

Pythagoreanism was kind of whack, though.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

Kurushio, where did you get that ring? Do you know of any places I can find one like it?

This is relevant to the discussion because I'mma pop a cap in some vampire ass with it. :P

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.

I guess Norse Neo-Pagans would do it the coolest. You know, bashing the vamp's head inside out with a hammer.

"Atheism is the religion whose followers are easiest to troll"

Kurushio, I really want that ring right now. The only thing that would make it cooler is if the snake had an apple on its mouth.

Holy crap, that would make for the coolest atheist wedding ring ever! Add that to my elaborate girlish fantasies about getting married.

"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."

Make it a fig, just to be extra pretentious.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

Hey, no more pretentious than a cross or Star of David.

Maybe something like that would work against the supernatural. As long as it's belief in something or an object that you've assigned some higher meaning to. I wonder if nihilists would have a chance against vampires?

"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."

Maybe if they strongly believe in nothing?

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But if we can stretch this whole thing so far, wouldn't vampires and the like just become jokes? I mean, it's true that maybe the logical conclusion of the idea would mean that athesits could repel vampires with a physics book/awesome Serpent of Eden ring and nihilists could repel them with nothing, but then what's the point of having vampires? It would take away the suspense and high stakes of having to find/make a cross.

Me? I'd rather not take a chance. I'll go with the good old-fashioned "drive a stake through their heart" method.

edited 1st Feb '11 7:19:55 PM by OnTheOtherHandle

"War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left." "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."