Redirect Farming: Vasquez Always Dies

^To be perfectly fair though, The Black Dude doesn't have to be the one to Die First, either.

Toughest Chick Always Dies is probably one of the best ways we can explain what this is though.

edited 1st Feb '11 8:14:08 AM by SeanMurrayI

Works for me

I took the liberty of adding that as a redirect.

I don't know about Sacrifical Action Girl. Action Girl itself has gone under trope decay since people interpret the trope to be: "Any woman who does anything remotely awesome."

How about "Tougher Action Girl Dies"?

That seems to be pretty much this trope in a nutshell. Plus, it makes it clear that this trope describes when there is more than one Action Girl and the tougher one dies, not simply that an Action Girl will always die. Some of the other alternate names proposed didn't make that clear.

edited 14th Mar '11 1:35:01 AM by Luanna255

That sounds pretty good.

I would prefer Thoughest Chick Always Dies rather than Thoughest Action Girl Always Dies because its shortert and easier to say, and I think the "chick" add a level of familiarity that fits with those kid of characters.

I think maybe a crowner with "rename to x", rename to y" and "don't rename but add redirects" would be needed here.

It's spelled "Toughest".

A quote on the Image Pickin' thread on this trope:

So, if you agree, what we have here is a trope name so opaque that it needs an image to be sensible to those not familiar with the character involved.

Yeeeeaaaahhh, I'm not sure that's a state of affairs that we necessarily want to keep.

It really is that opaque; I have no idea how you're supposed to know what type of character "Vasquez" represents if you haven't seen Alien. Heck, you can't even tell from the name whether it's a man or a woman, which misses one of the main points of the trope.

I was always under the impression that it was less about the tougher Action Girl dying and more about the less feminine one dying. Granted, there's overlap there, but it still seems like a distinction worth making (unless I was mistaken, which is possible).

I would say your right given

"the Vasquez character may be depicted as a Butch, regardless of the actual attractiveness"

They do seem to be given "nonstandard female beauty" traits with great frequency. IE short hair, muscles, attitude.

I would chalk this up as hollywood expressing "everyone wants a cheerleader" but that doesn't make it less a part of the trope.

edited 27th Jun '11 11:43:27 PM by mrcheaterson

It could also be a subset of The Worf Effect as in, if the tough girl can't handle it then it must be serious business.

So "Least Feminine Girl always dies" ?

We may have been using Tough when we meant less feminine

So are we satisfied with the current redirects? Any desire to swap?

We should at least consider swapping, because most people probably have no idea who Vasquez is (hint: it's a supporting character from a 25-year-old movie).

I definitely support a re-name here.

FWIW, as if my previous posts on the topic weren't obvious, I agree.

Rename crowner hooked.

Inbounds are fantastic and the new redirects should solve any searchablity problems.

Oh, Gawd, not another horrible name enshrined by a few inbounds... :P

I'd really like to voice my objection to names like this being changed. All sorts of character-named tropes are being changed these days, and in addition to removing a lot of the flavor of the site, I really think this is counterproductive. If someone doesn't understand this trope, doesn't know who Vasquez is (Like I myself when I came to the page), all they really have to do is read the page. It's not exactly obtuse. The summary is pretty good at explaining exactly what the trope is meant to describe. We're talking about changing a name to prevent someone spending a maximum of two minutes not understanding a discussion.

Is there something I'm missing here? Do other people not learn about tropes by reading about them on pages that already exist on the wiki? Who exactly are we trying to help here? And is it really such a bad thing that before you read the page, you don't know the character archetype, and after you read the page, you do? Are we catering to people who are utterly, totally opposed to learning about any character in fiction they don't already know?

Also, separately, I object to basically every name suggested so far. "Sacrificial Action Girl" and "Tougher" or "Toughest Action Girl Dies" is that they're going to inevitably be used wrong. Come on, guys, you know how things go at this site. How long do you think it'll be before every action girl who dies is labeled as this, regardless of whether there are any other action girls in the work?

Native Jovian already pointed out my issue with any title that includes "Dies First." If you want to put names like this in as redirects for searchability, I guess I haven't got any particularly coherent objections to make, save for the fact that giving a trope more redirects always seems to end up with someone putting the wrong one on an index and ruining the easy perusal of related tropes, and even that's kind of minor considering that we do want people to be able to google their way into the trope.

Your naivete is charming. ;)

Seriously, though, people don't read the trope. If they did, then tropes wouldn't get misused as often as they do.

Correct. The most clear, concise definition imaginable will not help clarify a trope to the large number of editors who go by name alone. We have ample evidence to prove this.

edited 1st Nov '11 9:00:44 PM by nrjxll

Nope. They rarely, if ever do, based on misuse patterns. The most common place editors seem to get their definitions seems to be the name, and failing that, the context of the example. Then the mistakes propagate.

Character named tropes are bad, simply by definition. This is a wiki that aims to be accessible to anyone off the streets, not a wiki that is where nerds come to hang out and talk nerdy to each other, and being of a certain level of nerdiness is required to participate.