Pagan Tropers Unite!

-snort-

I can't take the fluff! -gags-

I loved this comment in response, really summed it up:

edited 16th Jul '12 12:50:45 PM by Iulla

Sounds about right.

Random rage: I've said it before and will say it again. I HATE people that charge for divinations. Running a shop and selling goods is one thing. Demanding money for the use of a gift the gods gave you to share with your fellows is another.

That post was indeed awesome. I searched about thirty seconds for the Like button before remembering that forums don't have one.

For me it depends on what kind of divination. Charging for Tarot readings is fine since even intuitive readers need to develop the skills and knowledge, but charging for psychic-anything is bullshit.

I'm kind of on both sides of the fence on that one.

On the one hand, what about artists, musicians, etc.? They have gifts, and yet they charge people to use them.

But on the flip side, if it's something that's meant to help people that really doesn't take a whole lot of time to do, and costs virtually nothing to do as well, then I don't see why people need to put up prices.

It's the people who charge ridiculous prices that irritate me.

edited 16th Jul '12 7:52:06 PM by Iulla

The arts are generally accepted as "90% work and 10% talent/gift." Most of that work involves getting a network of people who can handle the business end of art.

You can be the most gifted artist in the world, but like many awesome-but-obscure artists, you won't be able to get that far without people who know how to get you known to people.

edited 18th Jul '12 10:47:22 AM by Sharysa

The difference is that art requires work. Being an artist (or musician, or author, or. . . ) is a full-time job. You have to take weeks or months finishing a piece. Divination takes half an hour, tops.

That's true. And I guess with art, too, you have to deal with getting materials and making sure that the piece is perfect - which can take a long time. With divination, it's just time, and not a lot of it.

If it's a talent people are willing to pay for, why not? It's not like it's a talent that comes without a price.

Anyone can do 'art' in their spare time. A great many do.

edited 17th Jul '12 3:10:25 PM by InverurieJones

Oh man, the house spirit is getting curious again. Time to get out the vodka offering, hahaha.

Do you guys ever have to deal with this? I feel like there was a short discussion pages and pages back, but I didn't look.

I don't give the Wight vodka, but yes, it frequently messes with my stuff. I don't mind much-it usually puts the stuff back.

Currently it has the small scissors, which has me mildly irritated.

Hahaa, I laughed too much at that. When you put it that way I picture this little drunken spirit running around, giggling madly and causing more trouble than it's worth. WHAT HAVE I DONE.

Vodka is the only alcohol that I have right now, and it seems to like it.

There was a person on my pagan forums who is Christian (not bad) and asked something like "how is 'resurrecting' the pagan faiths any better than abandoning them for Christianity in the first place?"

No. Just... No.

I had to read that a few times to get why that's so counter to the philosophy.

It may be observed, that in every area of conversation and learning, one can think oneself to- and simultaneously be thought to- possess a vastly different level of understanding than one actually has. The sentence that brings this illusion down is often excruciating.

It Got Worse.

They're completely failing to notice that they're falling into the "Christian privilege" trap.

-Facepalm-

Alright. There are a lot of ways one can sugarcoat and rephrase and etc. However, if we're all honest with each other and ourselves, it all boils down to:

We think Christianity is false and that other gods are real.

This cannot be too hard to understand.

A lifetime of brainwashing can make even the simplest concepts hard to grasp.

Asbhggvdvfgserfv

Stupid people make me want to fight cars.

WE HAVE SEEN HOW WELL THIS WORKS.

As much as it may make the rest of you flinch, I see it as a good thing that this person is on a predominately pagan forum. That right there is more firsthand exposure to other belief systems than most "stupid people" would voluntarily have.

This person misunderstands your beliefs, and perhaps most belief systems other than their own. But you get to have the opportunity to be there to correct that person in a potentially informative way, as contrasted with the innumerable narrow-minded people you will never be able to communicate with.

... Of course, I'm probably only able to say this because said person was not punching a rage button I respond to.

About charging for divinations: I'm not in favor of ripping off the gullible, in general. At the same time, one of the best ways of ensuring that someone values what one is providing is to charge for it. People react really weirdly to free. They take advantage of it, and the provider of it. They don't take it seriously. They aren't invested in what they're asking for. They don't really work out if they need it, or what they need it for.

So I wholly support charging a "don't waste my time" fee, possibly waived for close friends.

Above that, I mostly see it as a matter of (1) limiting demand to a reasonable degree, and (2) the moral use of the earnings from it. If one's not hard up, using such income for charitable or community-building purposes seems like a right thing to do. If you are hard up — if keeping your family fed and a modest roof over your head is a struggle — I don't see any moral issue with using said income to live on.

-peers around corner hoping it's not too late to jump in-

During the school year, I sometimes would hang out in the dorm lounge with a pendulum or a deck of cards, or just hang out in my room with a sign on my door saying anyone was welcome to stop in. I usually had a hat out, and people could donate a dollar if they wanted to. I didn't charge because I just didn't feel the need to. But that said, I think charging for divinations isn't totally bad. A lot of people I know act as though it's some type of unforgivable sin. If you're charging $60 for a tarot reading, then, yeah, I think that's really overboard and you should probably cut it down by a lot. But I think if you're asking for a few bucks or an optional donation, that's not a big deal.

edited 22nd Jul '12 1:19:43 AM by TheBespectacledNerd

Is $60 a lot of money? Not if the one paying that would drop that on a pair of socks. In the end, what matters to me is not taking the money of those who don't have it to spend.

Here's my take on the matter:

Performing a divination for someone else is a service. People have the right to charge money for performing services, especially for people they don't know or know only slightly. Not everyone has the luxury of a steady income from another source, so that they can keep their art "pure" and still survive. Only people who are materially secure can afford to be disdainful of money.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone charge $60, at least not as a base price. Standard in and around L.A. seems to be about $20.

edited 22nd Jul '12 1:15:11 PM by Karalora

I agree. 60 was just a random number I came up with. If someone can afford to spend $60 on a pair of socks, then, yeah, they could afford to spend it on a divination.

@Kara: Agreed.

I also don't go for the notion that there is something "sordid" or inherently corrupting about money or material luxuries. Greed and wastefulness are obviously big problems in the modern world, but the true evils stem more from wealth disparity between different tiers of society than from wealth in itself. I don't think suspicion of material wealth is native to Paganism; it seems like something imported from faiths that draw a sharp divide between the material and the spiritual.