Dumb move Gadaffi.
I would have already thrown in the towel, because every strategy would involve me using something other than infantry, then I'd go "Fuck.. NATO.. -grumble-"
Quick thought: So Gaddafi's trebuchets have all been wrecked and now he's relying on zerg rushing using pikemen and spearmen?
And frantically clicking at the market?
edited 19th Apr '11 8:25:08 PM by GlennMagusHarvey
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I wouldn't say all his artillery's wrecked, but Gaddafi seems to be growing increasingly impatient. He cannot accept the fact that Misrata has not fallen, and does not seem to understand how and why its defenders keep managing to repulse attacks. He thinks he can win in Misrata by throwing as many people as he can into it, not caring for the fact that the city has a lifeline for food, water, medicine and ammo that he cannot stop.
Also got some bad news from Turkey: Libyans with relatives who were in Misrata and were evacuated to Turkey to treat their injuries say that those who do not have fatal wounds are being kept locked inside hotels and are being interrogated by police.
What the hell, Turkey?
edited 19th Apr '11 8:40:40 PM by MayuZane
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Some days ago a Rebel officer noted "Gadafi can go into Misrata, but the Misurites will push him out." I wonder, did the place have a reputation before the war, or was he just an optimist?
o-o
"Stalingrad"? Considering the casualties in that battle, I'd consider that a slight hyperbole.
Or do they mean that it won't fall or something? EDIT: Oh it does. Never mind then.
edited 19th Apr '11 8:50:26 PM by Zersk
ᐅᖃᐅᓯᖅ ᐊᑕᐅᓯᖅ ᓈᒻᒪᔪᐃᑦᑐᖅ
SURPRISE
Ugh, that's going to bite him if it turns out bad. Not sure if rebels have numbers on their sides...
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think they mean it's a target that sucks in so many resources it could cost one side or the other the war.
edited 19th Apr '11 8:53:14 PM by FrodoGoofballCoTV
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
I was gonna say Misrata will become Libya's Tripoli (because Tripoli, occupied by the British, withstood a sustained attack from Italy for a long time and became a symbol of resistance against Fascism). Then I realised that Tripoli is in Libya, and besides, Tripoli did fall eventually, so it would be more accurate to say that Zawiya was Libya's Tripoli.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
More like giant cherries
From the halls of Mubarak to the shores of Tripoli...
Too bad there's a syllable missing.
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Video of the preparation and execution of dropping a Libyan four-color flag in Tripoli.
This was done on 19 April 2011 in Tripoli's Souq Al Juma district.
Freaking miracle no one got killed here.
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Beware the Crazy Man.
^ I wonder how long that will stay. God bless the souls of the brave...
Anyway, found an interesting article on Misrata. Purely for color, nothing new, but still awesome:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-libya-misurata-20110419,0,1868487.story
complete noob
"Quick thought: So Gaddafi's trebuchets have all been wrecked and now he's relying on zerg rushing using pikemen and spearmen? And frantically clicking at the market?"
HE'S GOING FOR THE WONDER THE WONDER THE WONDER
This foreboding is fa...
OH SHIT QUICK RUSH IN THERE TO KILL THOSE VILLAGERS BEFORE HE FINISHES! ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Thank you, I needed that.
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V
@ Best Of: Wasn't that Tobruk?
Beware the Crazy Man.
Racheting up of Iran-Saudi tensions...
http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article1709963.ece
...and essentially a confirmation that Bahrain is now a Protectorate.
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What the hell, Turkey?
edited 20th Apr '11 12:34:58 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
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Libyan TNC will get $25 million from the US in the form of nonlethal aid.
“The president’s proposed actions would provide urgently needed nonlethal assistance to support efforts to protect civilians and civilian-populated areas under threat of attack in Libya,” said Joseph E. Macmanus, acting assistant secretary of state for legislative affairs, in an April 15 letter. A copy of the letter, sent to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was obtained by The Washington Times.
Questions have emerged in recent weeks about the connection between some of the Libyan opposition and the al Qaeda terrorist group. Noman Benotman, a former leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, said in an interview last month that about 1,000 freelance jihadists are at large in Libya.
The State Department memorandum attached to the letter, however, stated that the United States finds the TNC to be committed to democratic reforms.
“The U.S. government has been in communication with the TNC in an effort to build a working relationship and to understand its security capabilities and shortfalls, while recognizing the key role that Libyan opposition forces play in the protection of civilians and civilian populated areas in Libya,” the memo said.
The memo also stated that “the TNC has publicly rejected terrorism, embraced the Geneva Conventions, and emphasized its dedication to building democratic institutions to provide for a secular future in which a broad range of Libyan citizens will be able to participate.”
I still can't believe it took them this long to figure out that the TNC is not a friend of Al Qa'ida. Oh well, better late than never.
edited 20th Apr '11 12:48:29 AM by MayuZane
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What's going to take to get them to provide weapons to the TNC?
And just out of curiosity, if the people of a country form up demonstrations against making their country secular, would other, secular democracies like the US and European states take offense at that? I mean, it's one thing for a government/regime to impose (quasi-)theocracy on its people; it's a different matter when the people want a (quasi-)theocratic rule.
edited 20th Apr '11 12:51:24 AM by MarqFJA
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It would probably take Gaddafi announcing he's sending a band of assassins to kill every single US, UK, Italian and French politician ever.
No idea if Gaddafi's artillery has given up or if they're just waiting to stock up on ammo. Would say it's the latter, but I hope it's the former.
edited 20th Apr '11 3:08:34 AM by MayuZane
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When the people are putting a religious leader into a position of supreme power (that's what theocracy means), to represent their will, it's like putting a raft on a river, and shouting "River, I command you to follow my will and flow towards that direction!"
Afterwards, the river may or may not flow in the direction you want it to, but in either case, if you can't change your direction underway, you are not in command.
In the same way, "the people" giving up the right to rule, it stops being a democracy in that instant, and they are only on borrowed time until they realize that they want to change the direction, and they can't. (that WILL happen sooner or later).
There is nothing wrong with a democratic system implementing strong religious laws, but if some of these laws make future change of the system impossible, it starts going agaist all democratic principles of the bigger picture, even if it is implemented with the pretense that it follows "the people's will"
edited 20th Apr '11 9:03:14 AM by EternalSeptember
betaalpha
(offtopic somewhat), @Marq FJA: Turkey is (or was) in a similar situation to what you describe with the people campaigning for less of the secular laws imposed by the state. But even there most people didn't want a theocracy, ie. for Shariah law to supplant secular law and people to get elected according to religious directives rather than democratic voting. Other countries like Indonesia also have people campaigning for more religious freedoms, which some secular folk interpret as less democratic ones.
But no population I know of would dream of handing over all governing power to a religious head, unless the alternative was even worse (eg. anarchy and endless war like in Somalia).
Also agree with Eternal September.
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Libyan rebels have entered Brega yet again (video). The video shows a tent abandoned by Gaddafi mercs, who left underwear, cigarettes, shampoo, blankets and so on behind. Apparently they settled in and did not expect an attack at all. Vid also shows destroyed Gaddafi vehicles as well as food, ammo and weapons left behind by fleeing mercs.
My favorite tweets about this:
"It must have been really awkward, being a Mercenary in Brega, running away and leaving your underwear (??), blankets & shampoo behind"
"have we got a load of naked mercenaries running around the desert in #libya now?!Can't think of anything more intimidating :P"
"With shampoo in their hair (and eyes!) and no water to wash it out in the desert ROFL."
There are also (currently unconfirmed but likely) reports that the Gaddafi mercenaries retreated from Brega because they lost communications with command and control, and trouble in Sirte. Despite Sirte's reputation as a Gaddafi stronghold, there have been reported clashes between locals and unruly mercs.
Also, a video showing Libyan rebels being trained in the use of the MILAN anti-armor weapon. It's confirmed that Qatar's anti-tank weapons have reached the rebels now.
edited 20th Apr '11 8:20:35 AM by MayuZane
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Beware the Crazy Man.
Yeah, as soon as I heard about the locals-mercs conflict in Sirte and the G-man's wish to send in another wave into Misrata, I figured Brega wouldn't hold. Makes me wonder how Ras Lanuf and Bin Jawad are.
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No way to be sure, but sources say Ras Lanuf is deserted. Rebels are advancing slowly though, because they are (understandably) cautious of landmines and traps that might have been left behind. However, dead bodies in Gaddafi uniform and some with green flags were found inside buildings in Brega, who were NOT killed by rebels. There is speculation that there was a fight within Gaddafi's forces.
Meanwhile in Misrata, rebel forces have started to use dummies filled with straw to fool snipers into giving away their position.
◊ Surprisingly, they worked.
Sadly, two journalists, Chris Hondros and Tim Hetherington have passed away in Misrata. Producer and cinematographer Andre Liohn is in a Misrata hospital, and says he has identified their bodies.
Mr. Hetherington's final tweet:
"In besieged Libyan city of Misrata. Indiscriminate shelling by Qaddafi forces. No sign of NATO."
R.I.P.
edited 20th Apr '11 9:57:10 AM by MayuZane
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I have confirmation from Libyans and other people watching Nilesat TV that Gaddafi State Media, ALL CHANNELS, except for one backup frequency, are down. Nobody is sure who is jamming the signal, but it is confirmed that at 4.47 pm Libya time, Gaddafi State Media has been almost completely jammed. There's nothing but a black screen now.
Also, there are now reports that Gaddafi is re-assigning troops from the mountainous regions in the southwest and some in the east to turn back and attack Misrata. Misrata is now like a black hole to Gaddafi, as he keeps sending more and more troops into there despite the fact that every entrance to the city is a bottleneck where even the manholes are covered with junk just in case someone tries getting in through the sewers. Remember when I said that there were Gaddafi forces that were trying to enter from the south? The ones who set up tents and were raided? According to interrogations, they were originally meant to attack settlements in the southern mountains but were re-directed to Misrata.
edited 19th Apr '11 8:08:18 PM by MayuZane
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