Too General of a Name: Nosebleed

With a few western examples such as Dead Rising and the large webcomics section it is more than just Anime only now.

Yeah, there can be reasons why non fans would possibly want to read them.

For example RPG tropes might appear in a story about people playing Tabletop Games, so there could be a reason why me, the non-gamer would look for Dungeonmaster's Girlfriend.

But in these cases, as long as I am the lone newbie, and they are the fans who used the term for years, if not decades, it is unreasonable to pander to my own expectations, and mess with those who use it every day.

The name itself sounds like People Sit On Chairs. I think that's the core of the objections.

Someone on the previous page said that if the trope was being launched today, there would be calls to make the name more specific. That's a pretty good case for a bad name.

Not necessarily. The same applies for The Mario and Xanatos Gambit, for example. However, since the name is working, it is a good name. "Good title" isn't decided by an arbitrary set of rules, but by their results. The rules/guidelines exist to help us to find good names, but it doesn't mean they must be followed blindly.

Again, it doesn't matter if the name looks like Exactly What It Says on the Tin. There is no one using nosebleedto describe other kind of nosebleed. Therefore, there is no confusion caused by the general name. Therefore the name is working. So the name stay.

edited 20th Feb '11 5:19:38 AM by Heatth

The Mario and Xanatos Gambit at least have a curiosity factor in their names to persuade you to look at them if you don't already know what they refer to (it's how I first found out what they referred to). That can't be said for Nosebleed, given the word is such an ordinary term. A qualifier would both make it informative and interesting.

Since we don't host PSOC pages, Nosebleed isn't misleading either. If you read it, your first thought might be that it's about bleeding noses, but then you realize that it can't be, because bleeding noses are not a trope, there must be more to it, so you click on it to learn more.

Just as you assume that Railroading isn't about railroads, Mary Sue isn't about girls who are called Mary Sue, or that Lampshade Hanging isn't about hanging lampshades on lamps.

edited 20th Feb '11 6:39:09 AM by EternalSeptember

Given the sort of things that go through YKTTW sometimes (and some "tropes" that currently exist), I think you're giving people too much credit for realizing what is and isn't a trope. Many would, but certainly not all and possibly not even most, especially newcomers.

edited 20th Feb '11 6:54:35 AM by ccoa

Given the lack of people misusing Nosebleed, my theory works in practice.

If there was misuse or low inbounds or wick count I could agree with you.

anyone else think this conversation is just going round in circles?

on one side we've got "its anime and I don't like anime" and on the other we have "widely used, widely recognised, and almost no misuse". Both sides have circled the wagons and no one will convince the other.

Frankly since it hasn't been misused, then fears of misuse are groundless. Since it is being understood, fears of misunderstanding are groundless. Lets move onto a trope that actively is being misused and is actively being misunderstood instead. I'm sure we can find one of those.

^ Hello, strawman. How are you today?

EDIT: I fear you misunderstood my point. It's not "people will misuse this because they'll assume it's this trope", it's "people aren't going to go click on it and read it because it can't be what it sounds like." If there's one thing we've conclusively proven here in TRS, it's that people don't read tropes but rather make assumptions from the titles.

THIS WAS NOT AN ARGUMENT TO RENAME, just addressing something that was wrong.

edited 20th Feb '11 7:30:14 AM by ccoa

I'm a bit grouchy, but thank you for asking. How are you?

More like I like anime but even I know when having a general name is not a good idea for a specific concept.

edited 20th Feb '11 7:31:09 AM by MousaThe14

Yet, there is no misuses. It is not 'wrong' if it is working. Forget it, I understood just now your post.You are correct, sorry.

Why? I mean, I would agree with you in theory, but this is working? What change what is working? What we would gain? Changing would just lead to problems (since many people would still link Nosebleed when talking about Horny Nosebleed) which no gain.

edited 20th Feb '11 7:44:54 AM by Heatth

In practice there are no issues, I guess it's just a desire to get everything exactly right. Judging by all the criteria laid out, I have no argument, I just want things to be properly labelled in their correct positions when possible regardless.

But you are correct very little is lost or gained by keeping things the way they are.

Unfortunately, at this point it all comes down to personal preference which is probably why this conversation could potentially go on forever.

As much as it pains me to say this, we no longer have any issues besides personal preference and a little myopia. And the fact we might have set back our 'We're Not AnimeTopes' campaign a little.

^^Correction: There's one misused wick on the Beavis And Butthead page. Though almost every other wick is an anime work or a sex trope so that's probably also the full extent.

This has acceptable misuse—not no misuse.

edited 20th Feb '11 7:57:17 AM by SeanMurrayI

Which reminds me:

* Hypocritical Humor: Especially when Beavis has a Nose Bleed and in Scene 6, it wasn't an emergency, but in Scene 7, HE WAS STILL WORRIED HE'LL DIE and that's just one of the many reasons why Mike Judge should not've written Nose Bleed because he's so random.

...Yeah, I'm erasing that now.

edited 20th Feb '11 8:06:18 AM by Daremo

^So it was misused twice on the same page (Nosebleed itself has had its own trope entry as well).

edited 20th Feb '11 8:11:45 AM by SeanMurrayI

How about the Drag Me To Hell example?

^Well, it's no longer among this trope's wicks or the page's examples now so I'm assuming somebody must have done something about it already.

edited 20th Feb '11 8:16:22 AM by SeanMurrayI

@Mousa

To be frank, I agree with you. I also think such a general name is, indeed, not adequate. I just don't feel the change will do any good, so I am against rename.

Whatever. In a big trope, there is no such thing as 'absolutely no misuse'. I was not trying to be literal or paying attention on the exact words. Please stop nit picking pointless things.

Which doesn't change nothing. Specially because it is possible the same guy made both mistakes.

edited 20th Feb '11 8:19:11 AM by Heatth

^It's still possible for one person to misuse a trope on multiple occasions. The trope was found on two completely separate places on the page to refer to general nosebleeding. I'd count that as two instances where the trope was used incorrectly.

edited 20th Feb '11 8:28:10 AM by SeanMurrayI

Sure. But in the same page it is more likely it was the same guy (since this is a page we know the guy visits) then if the same misuses pops in unrelated places.

Whatever, what don't change is that 2 misuses is, on practice, the same as one. I was not cometing it is just one occurrence. But that two occurrences is just a good as one.

edited 20th Feb '11 8:37:10 AM by Heatth

^Three misuses, the trope page's incorrect Drag Me To Hell example was deleted well after this topic was created.

Whatever! There is still no damned difference! Is my message too hard to understand? What I mean is the exact number of misuses is completely meaningless once we decided it is too low. One, 2 or 5 misuses is still too low for a random sample of 27. Specially considering said sample purposely skipped the wikis on "anime and obvious arousal tropes".

edited 20th Feb '11 8:47:27 AM by Heatth