Is this the best name for this? (New Crowner 9.26): Black And White Beauty

I didn't have problem figuring out what the title means.

At first I was a bit distracted, but I couldn't connect it to anything specific Black-and-White Morality related, so I jumped to the next, literal interpretation, that was correct. That took like 3 seconds.

I was able to get the meaning from the title.

I knew what the trope was about the instant I read its title.

I launched the trope under the title Black and White Beauty because I really didn't like how many words the working title needed to get its point across. I was trying to make a shorter, snappier one that was still reasonably straightforward (since the Porcelain Doll/China Doll ones do sound nicer but require that the reader know what china dolls look like), but apparently I failed at "straightforward".

I'd be okay with Snow White Beauty Standard, but I haven't seen any other proposals that get the right idea across succinctly. The whole reason Eerie Pale-Skinned Brunette got split was that most of the tropers who weighed in agreed that having black hair and pale skin wasn't a trope in its own right. Wouldn't calling this trope by a name that only describes the hair and skin colors just reopen that can of worms?

Also I didn't know what the hell I was doing when I wrote most of the original description, I'll own up to that. I just wrote it based on what snippets of information people had said about the trope in the YKTTW and the TRS threads associated with the pale-skinned-brunette look.

edited 8th Mar '11 2:13:18 AM by Cameoflage

I can't say for sure if I would have been able to get the proper meaning from the name or not if I hadn't already seen it in the original discussion over renaming Pale-Skinned Brunette. I can say, however, that Black and White Beauty really does not work for me as a name for the trope. I think it's because, as another comment has mentioned, "black and white" is an idiom that is mostly unrelated to the subject matter, and "Black Beauty" is a title which is also completely unrelated to the subject. It may do the job adequately, but I feel like we can do a lot better. Snow White Beauty Standard, for example, would be fine, given how iconic the description of Snow White is.

I would prefer not using Snow White Beauty Standard. Snow white does not need to completely monopolize the page she is already all over the page as well as "Standard" just seems wrong for this. If we must use Snow White the Snow White Beauty would be better or Raven Haired Fair Skinned Beauty to you know actually tell the trope from the name.

Plus that a Snow White Standard would also have to include bloodred lips...

I personally like Porcelain Doll Complexion

That doesn't say "dark hair" to me, though, just pale skin.

Snow White Beauty Standard

Bump for eventual resolution.

There is now a single proposition rename crowner on this subject here.

Black and White Beauty found in: 124 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 1,855 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.

WOW.

This trope hasnt existed that long and its already got that many inbounds? wtf (I seriously didnt YKTTW this that long ago.)

Getting that many inbounds in such a short of time... going to say no to rename.

edited 14th Jul '11 10:08:35 PM by Raso

Yeah, rename. My first guess had nothing to do with Black and White Beauty but rather a work insisting that one standard of beauty was flat out better than others. It made me think of Word of God about how Chun Li was the most beautiful woman in Street Fighter, beauty standards of the fans be damned.

I'm gonna abstain from voting in the Single Proposition crowner because whether I'd be okay with renaming it depends on what people want to rename it to. My personal favourite is Porcelain Doll Complexion (I actually prefer it over the title I used), but I'm not convinced that that's any clearer than Black and White Beauty.

edited 8th Aug '11 9:58:40 AM by Cameoflage

Can someone confirm whether this trope is Always Female? Because if it isn't, I'd hesitate to keep the current name, or adopt any new name that includes the word "beauty". When someone is referred to as "a beauty," they're almost always female. (This isn't a huge issue; I'm just putting it out there.)

The trope description implies that it's Always Female, but doesn't say so explicitly, so I'm just checking. There are a couple of male examples in the Anime & Manga folder, but that's all, as far as I can tell. (Should they be removed?)

A fair few of Always Female tropes are more like "assumed to be female", male examples pop up a lot on the pages.

The problem with [anything] Complexion, though, is that it only mentions the skin. A porcelain doll may be fair-skinned, but its hair can be any color. This is specifically about the "dark hair, pale skin and beautiful" combination.

I think it's always gonna have more female than male examples, but I don't think it's actually Always Female.

I like both Raven Hair Fair Skin and Raven Hair, Ivory Skin. Both are much better than the very ambiguous current name.

Bumping for more votes and a consensus.

I agree: these are both clear and accurate, as well as gender-neutral.

They are far to unwieldy... Also I made this trope not too long ago and it's got 1800 inbounds and wicks have grown a ton, the title is working.

If nothing else, it needs some redirects, as I would never, ever have been able to find this under its current name!

This article is not what I expected.

That's a good thing, because what I expected would've seemed kinda racist.