A kind of research: political terms in American and British English

That's not to say they need to be devout, but they need to be photographed in church at least once.

Oh dear.. That's quite interesting, though. In Denmark I think it is considered a virtue that a politician is atheist. Because of this, it can be difficult for muslim politicians because muslims in Denmark are generally seen as more religious than the "natives". There was some controversy about this a few years ago, I recall.

Because of this I think muslim politicians in Denmark sometimes must try a bit harder to show that they definitely aren't going to mix up religion and politics. —>Because mixing those up is basically political suicide..^^"

However the trouble really isn't that they're muslim, it's more like a general fear of fundamentalism. At least that's how I see it. Which is exactly why America scares me now xD (We do have one christian party, but they have no mandates..)

edited 17th Jan '11 2:27:13 PM by Arikitari

Socialist is considered somewhat of a four-letter-word, and that’s only half a joke. People here who hold somewhat socialistic beliefs prefer the term “progressive”, which is true, from their perspective.

Conservative refers to basically anything right of center and rightwards. The common picture of a conservative would be classified as a liberal-conservative anywhere else, and tends to be interested in free markets and deregulation, standing up for business and/or the middle class. However, there is also a strong Christian element to the tendency in popular culture. This can be anything from a sort of old-school Christian democratic tendency to theoconservative tendencies and wanting to practically remove any vestige of secularism. The religious right part tends to emphasize supporting restriction of or banning of abortion, restriction of contraception (how much depends on which religious tradition said Christian conservative comes from).

Liberal refers to basically the center-left, and is seen to mean less religious involvement in politics, expansion of the social safety net, protecting worker’s rights and regulating business. Note, however, that this is only an outline, as in the description about conservatives. Much of the American left has its roots in the Social Gospel movements of the nineteenth century, and so some liberals also have a religious emphasis to them. Arguably you could call it social-democratic, but as socialism is an insult, you won’t hear that word much except in political science courses or in pundit shouting-matches on television.

Libertarian is what you may call a classical-liberal tendency. Like American conservatives, they believe in minimal government intervention in the economy and in personal economic affairs at least. On social issues like abortion or homosexuality they tend to be all over the spectrum, with some supporting legal abortion and gay marriage, with others tending to oppose it.

Leftist, like socialism, is seen as an insult, implying an adherence to Stalinist tendencies. To say that someone is on the political left, however, is just a matter-of-fact statement.

Note that most American voters pick and choose positions among the major ideological camps and parties. For example, I’m arguably an American liberal on economics, but my belief in instilling Christian values in the culture would make me conservative/religious right.

Or an electoral example: In 2008 California, there were a lot of people who voted for arguably American liberal candidates, but voted yes in the referendum to ban gay marriage.

People on the Internet and media in general often fail to talk about these nuances, mostly because they have a very limited time/space in which to deliver their information, and also because nuances don't sell.

^^ Can I move to Denmark now?

No seriously, stating you're anything but Christian in America is political suicide. Many fundamentalists want to incorporate Biblical law into American politics. Crazy fundamentalism has less of a grip on the younger generation, thank goodness. Most of my friends dislike organized religion whether they believe in God or not.

edited 17th Jan '11 2:34:24 PM by snailbait

Well, there are quite a few Jews who made it to elected office, so it isn't just Christian. But that is kind of expected when most people describe themselves as regular church-attending Christians of some sort or another.

Note also there are regional quirks to political language and what they stand for. What a Californian may consider throughly conservative would smack of liberalism to someone from Mississippi.

What doesn't?

Nothing, but people seem to think all liberals everywhere believe the same thing. It's a confusion between ideology and policy. Policy is what you do, ideology is why you think what you think about policy.

The thing is, the American system is strong against fundamentalism, but not the culture.

...and answers like all these is one of the reasons I love tvtropes. That, and those addpost taglines up there. :) Thanks for all that - I didn't expect 30+ answers in one day. I'll return in the central European morning with follow-up questions.

@myrdschaem: Yeah, USA Erklärt is neat, it's one of the best blogs I know. But Scot (great guy that he is) doesn't write in English, and I'm trying to get a feel for all this in its native tongue.

Cheers, kurushio

@Hungry Joe: Actually, I'd think that people would choose a Muslim before an atheist in quite a few areas, on the basis that a bad religion is better than none at all.

"At least they have a God, even if it's a yellow one."

UK point of view here,
On political parties:

Conservative:
Applied to the (Aptly named) conservative party. Popular interpretation is that they are toffs who only care about the rich, the actual interpretation isn't far off. They are as opposed to the welfare system as any mainstream political party can be.

• Propose cuts to the benefit system.
• Have a large following in rural areas.
• Have said they will look at repeal the ban on fox hunting (haven't mentioned this recently.)

Labour:
Used to have socialist leanings (now that is called Old Labour) but now as it is reborn as Nu-Labour it is closer to centre/conservatives than ever before. (However we have not seen much of the new head of the Labour party.)

• Have to overcome Blair's influence on the public (Unwanted wars etc).
• Supposed "Old Labour" style party leader now

Liberal Democrats:
Traditional third party, never had much power. They promised great things, they formed a coalition with the Conservatives that has left them missing a lot of face with the voters (almost opposite on certain topics).

• Lost a lot of popular support for forming a coalition with the conservatives.
• Promised things that would further develop the welfare state.

Welfare stuff:

Healthcare:
Whilst the British may bitch about the NHS we actually love/rely on it a lot. It is paid for by everyone and you'll only ever need to make real payments for prescriptions (Unless you live in Wales or Scotland, much to people's chagrin) or unessential/plastic surgery.

Benefits:
Whilst the Daily Mail may say that "Gay muslim immigrants are causing cancer and lowered house prices" you should take it with a pinch of salt. We have a relatively comprehensive benefit system as we pay for those who are; disabled, looking for work, having kids etc.

Religion:
Well whilst being a "christian country" we are pretty apathetic about religion, unless they bomb us or touch our kids. As mentioned atheists can hold govt. positions.

edited 18th Jan '11 3:08:20 PM by IanExMachina

In America, calling someone a "liberal" or a "socialist" is the equivalent of a political slur. The far right, especially the religious far right, like to call anyone they disagree with a "liberal" and any policy that they disagree with "socialist."

It's sort of like in the Mc Carthy Era where everyone was scared shitless of Communist spies, and accused anyone who was too "subversive" of being a "Red."

I just realized that 'political terms' has a certain 'how long do people stay in office' ring to it. Sorry. Anyway.

Cojuanco:

People on the Internet and media in general often fail to talk about these nuances, mostly because they have a very limited time/space in which to deliver their information, and also because nuances don't sell.

That's one of the reasons why I asked all this here, actually. In my experience, most tropers take their time in answering questions and give you a nice combination of NPOV information and personal experience. So, thank you all for taking your time, it was really helpful. (And I'm happy to return the favor whenever possible.)

On topic, this got kinda lost: 'liberty' and 'freedom'. How interchangeable are these two in day-to-day usage?

Oh, and that's not really on topic, but I'm kind of curious: how common is it to move from one state to another in your lifetime? And is there a lot of - running out of vocabulary here - 'local patriotism'?

@Ian Ex Machina: If you make it five instead of three parties (no Greens?), your entire post works just as well for Germany. :) Must be one of the reasons why I feel almost at home everytime I'm in the UK.

Cheers, kurushio

We do have a Green Party, but they're not typically viewed as serious contenders.

I have a feeling that 15 or 20 years down the line, the American right will have turned "liberal" and "progressive" into synonyms for "Stalinist" and leftists will have nothing to call themselves. Nuspeak in action.

edited 19th Jan '11 5:35:26 AM by Filby

As in they've just got their First seat in Parliment, in Brighton no less...

But on the whole, the Green Party haven't got any political power in Britain. The environment (Green-related Issues) is an area that all the major parties have taken up. It's also interesting (like most parties) to see the internal divisions within the parties, from my POV:

• Conservatives: Right (UKIP-esque) v. Liberal ("One-Nation Tory") wings
• Labour: "Old" Labour v. "New" Labour (UK-Centrist with an authoritarian streak)
• Liberal Democrats: Liberal (as in the Nick Clegg type group, shares ground with the Conservatives really) vs. Democrat (as in European Social Democratic-type, I suspect)

15-20? That long?

I wish I shared your optimism.

How common is it to move from one state to another in your lifetime?

I'd say it's pretty common, although that's mostly relying on personal experience.

I've moved around a lot myself, but that's just me. Since coming to (and staying in) Austin, I've noticed that around 80% of people I meet have never left the state they're in, and among them, a little less than half never left their hometown. I haven't met everyone in town, though.

I think it depends on where in the country you live as well. The north east/new england, it's not particularly hard as you can hop in a car and drive across five states. In Texas, it's a day or so to reach the border of the state if you start in the middle.

Ten to fifteen hours at the speed limit, barring traffic jams in any of the major cities. Not a short drive, I'd have to agree.

@ kurushio

As already mentioned they are quite a small party, I only gave a general (and probably biased) quick run downs on the main three in the UK.

AE:

Liberal: Godless, baby killing Stalin worshipper who likes nothing more than stealing people's money and giving it to illegal immigrants. Despite being supporter of extreme-left authoritarian government, is for some reason soft on murderers, rapists, and Mexicans.

Conservative: Racist, sexist, homophobic, redneck gun nut whose favourite pastime is locking up anyone different from them on the pretense of "family values." Despite being virulently opposed to perfectly reasonable laws and regulations, is for some reason overjoyed by war and genocide if it happens to brown people.

Centrist: Dirty, holier-than-thou, hypocritical fence-sitters whose voting patterns only permit those dastardly Liberals/Conservatives to get into power. Always seeking false compromises which are really just ways to get their sleeper Conservative/Liberal views wider currency.

Socialist: A mythical creature, the existence of the Socialist has never been confirmed, although all sides invoke him on occasions. Drawings usually depict him with fiery skin, horns, and a red tail, presumably in opposition to the Founding Fathers.

Founding Fathers: The mighty and glorious eternal rulers of America, whose revolutionary and perfect ideas provided the foundation of modern Liberalism/Conservatism. This is little known, but the Founding Fathers were actually rebelling against a foreign regime whose actions perfectly exemplify Conservatism/Liberalism — hence why it is such a dangerous ideology even today. Drawings usually depict them as old men seated on clouds, with flowing grey beards and golden halos, presumably in opposition to the Socialist.

Progressive: The opposite of a Congressive.

This non-biased post has been brought to you by former american resident aishkiz.

edited 19th Jan '11 12:32:09 PM by aishkiz

I'm unusual in that not only have I stayed in the same town my whole life, but the same house. That'll change next year.

But as for "local patriotism", or as I parsed it "hometown pride" yeah, there's a lot of that in the states, but a lot of people dislike where they come from. Has more to do with sports teams than anything else, really.