Baby Doc Duvalier returns to Haiti

I can't see this being good at all.

I've got two guns pointed west and a broken compass.

He's a dead man unless most of the country isn't aware that he's there. They kicked his ass out once, they'll be willing to do it again. The neighbouring Dominicans don't think highly of him either.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

The linked-to article implies that he came by himself, on a commercial airplane.

Not sure what to make of this.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

The only article I can find on it is from Yahoo, so it could just be a rumor. I hope it is. The last thing Haiti needs is him again, in power or no.

edited 16th Jan '11 5:13:22 PM by Seamus

I've got two guns pointed west and a broken compass.

He may be hoping to slip into Haiti while it is in disarray still and maybe seize power again.

Who watches the watchmen?

He may try, but they'll kill him. A return to power would require foreign military backing and, the only candidate country for that can't keep Karzai safely in power far away from the Western media. A reinstated dictator in the Caribbean? Not happening.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

^ Dude, why would we want to prop up Duvalier? The place is enough of a hellhole and they have nothing we want which could prompt us to do so.

edited 16th Jan '11 6:01:22 PM by MajorTom

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

There's one country you've forgotten. I don't find it very likely, though.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

While it would indeed be foolish for him to follow that route who knows why he would dare especially now to return there alone.

Who watches the watchmen?

It was purely a hypothetical possibility; the U.S. can't afford to prop up dictators like it has in the past and as you say there's not sufficient reason for them to do so. I also don't see reason for France to do so, other than for the sake of being total dicks.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Can't afford? More like don't want to pay for it. The only thing we "can't afford" in propping up dictators is political clout.

We've learned better since then as well, since guess what? Fighting the Taliban should have ended over 30 years ago by Soviet hands. The CIA never should have done anything over it not even watch it back then. But you know the drill, "sins of the father..." must be cleaned up by his sons aka people my age on the lines in Afghanistan rather than their fathers who orchestrated the problems in the 1970s and 1980s.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

I dunno about that. The 80s Afghan war was never about Afghanistan, but Pakistan (just like it kinda is now). Back then the Soviets wanted a warm water port, which would have had them at the mouth of the Gulf. There was no way the West would have allowed them to handle that.

The problem was the way they handled the war, by trying to hijack religious sentiment to make the locals fight the athiestic USSR. They were too successful. If they had tried another strategy that was less likely to outlast the fight and yet be effective, Afghanistan today might be more like the other Stans.

As for Duvalier, if this is true....either he's got a death wish, thinks he has something up his sleeve. I don't see France messing with that, or the US (unless it was some sort of mad Indy Ploy to get the Haitians to get their act together). First thought that came to mind as to his intentions is he's just trying to be opportunistic...that or he actually does care about Haiti, but thats not likely...

Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...

Well the previous democratic government that got toppled by death squads backed by foreign governments is already indication that countries in the West are fully willing to mess with Haiti. We created our own mess there. They had a perfectly good government under Aristride. I hope i spelled the guy's name right.

Point, but I think that Aristide was ousted not because they wanted to back a dictator in his place, but because since Castro the major investment powers in the Americas have never tolerated a populist leadership in its poorer countries that put its electorate's needs before the free trade demands of the World Bank et cetera. Look at the history: the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Haiti, so on so forth, go down the line. Only Brazil and Venezuela have really escaped that, and they only succeeded because Brazil is big and resource-rich enough to buy its relative economic independence and Venezuela had a paranoid asshole in charge. Attempts were made to oust Chavez too.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Except that free trade ''does'' benefit the people of those countries.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

It benefits a limited number of people in those countries if the nation is corrupt.

I'm going to start by recommending to you Life and Debt, the excellent documentary on Jamaica's experience with free trade, and then I'll address that topic further if we make a thread for it.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Brazil and Venezuela are great examples of rejecting American free trade agreements and instead coming up with more sensible two-way frameworks that work for everyone. In particular, socailist Brazil lifted 30 million people out of poverty in the past 8 years under the rule of de Lula. I'm not against America, I support NAFTA but those things only work if USA can't just bully the nation into submission.

So as for the OP, I want Aristride back in power. I don't care if it's socialism. It worked, it was a stable government, the place was getting better. Right now, we can't even get clean drinking water to people and thousands have died from cholera.

edited 17th Jan '11 3:03:39 PM by breadloaf

@ Silver: Free trade benefits everyone when everyone has free trade equally, which is not the case.

As was mentioned, our farm subsidies are basically destroying Jamaica's economy, because while they have to free trade with others as per the conditions of their world bank loans, we do not.

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.

Oh, the farm subsidies. Yeah, those are bad.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

Subsidies are bad.

Fight smart, not fair.

Back on topic, I'm not saying America or France or whoever wouldn't do it for some sort of moral reason or highground. I'm saying so because Haiti has nothing of worth.

Actually now that I think about it, mebbe thats why Duvalier is back. No one wants to deal with Haiti so maybe, in a twisted sort of nationalism, Duvalier wants to do so. Or more likely for more power, but hey, whatever. Or maybe the exile agreement was meant to be only for 25 years.

Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...

A few hundred years ago, France thought Haiti was more valuable than half of North America and their possessions in India. Heh.

edited 17th Jan '11 7:20:38 PM by Tsukubus

"I didn't steal it; I'm borrowing it until I die."

Funny 80-120 years ago Britain considered India the crown jewel of the Empire.

Like Haiti, oh how things have fallen. (Though India is rapidly on track to exceed its former British reputation in quite short order.)

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

Today, India is a growing world power.

And Britain is a mocked, decaying society and third-rate power.

The British of 1910 were pretty sagacious people.

edited 17th Jan '11 7:30:54 PM by Tsukubus

"I didn't steal it; I'm borrowing it until I die."