The "Bad Kind" of Abortion

People cheat all the time while married regardless. In fact that's far more annoying to me than some slut who just dumps whoever she/he happens to be dating at the time.

please don't take an At Least Im Honest as a serious life philosophy.

edited 16th Jan '11 2:30:37 PM by joeyjojo

But if she hadn't ever been born, she wouldn't know it...and neither would you or anyone else. We literally don't know what—or who—we're missing. Maybe I would be married and have three kids right now if my hypothetical husband's mother hadn't had an abortion in 1978. But hey—maybe he would have been abusive, so I dodged a bullet. I don't know, I can't know, and it's not worth fretting over. I live in the world that wound up happening.

But they still deserve a chance.

Let's say that I could actually go to an alternate universe where this girl had been aborted. I would know full well who is missing, and could hold up a picture of her to anyone responsible for the abortion and say "See this little girl? She's dead now, and will never have the chance to see the world or experience love, because you took that away from her".

Why should it matter if nobody knows what is missing? That doesn't change anything.

A person doesn't deserve anything until they exist, because an entity that doesn't exist has no properties-deserving of X included.

Hence why your argument basically brings us back to the question of when does life begin.

@Mighty: Yes, and people's loved ones get killed by all kinds of stupid reasons every day. Not to be an asshole, but you haven't actually experienced the tragedy. You don't have a right to be so melodramatic.

True but we don't live in such a world. if she was aborted then i'm sure she would either be siting in a medical land fill feeding the worms or in a jar as a teaching aid for medical students.

Yeah... no. I stubbed my toe today. Isn't that a tragedy? YOU don't know what it is like for ME with MY toes, they might be really sensitive for all YOU know. You get where i'm coming at?

edited 16th Jan '11 2:41:59 PM by joeyjojo

Hence why your argument basically brings us back to the question of when does life begin.

Once their life is in motion they are alive.

So again, a tiny fetus is a living human being.

I experience tragedy all the fuckin' time.

I almost fell down the stairs this morning. Again.

Jesus it's like God is trying to kill me.

Why isn't a shotgun wedding an option?

Who's going to be holding the shotgun? The state? The government should force people to get married when they can't even agree on whether to havea child? Oh, sure, that's the perfect way to found a happy, loving, non-abusive family.

Once their life is in motion they are alive.

Oh, great, that means I committed murder again last week when I had my period.

What? I consider ovulation to be the event that "sets life in motion." Conception is just one of those milestones that may or may not be reached, like implantation, cell differentiation, and the beginning of organized brain activity. Can you explain to me why your milestone carries more weight than mine?

edited 16th Jan '11 2:46:57 PM by Karalora

Well Rott's requirement isn't exactly "happy and loving" to begin with so...

There seem to be a conflict in terms, there is Life in the biological sense and their is Life in the philosophical sense. Lifers focus on the former while choicers focus on the latter

edited 16th Jan '11 2:46:36 PM by joeyjojo

The thing I hate more than anything in a serious argument is the appeal to emotion. Look at these cute puppies! If your side of the argument is right, these cute puppies will be euthanized! Doesn't that make you want to agree with me?

can you give an example used in the debate?

edited 16th Jan '11 2:48:50 PM by joeyjojo

Can we eat them? Then maybe...

I love how Tongpu's response got completely skimmed over. If someone else made that statement we'd be all "whoa, dude!" and get all up in arms about it, but since it's Tongpu we're all "Oh it's just Tongpu." It's kind of hilarious.

I'm wondering exactly how that doesn't work with Rottweiler.

But if she hadn't ever been born, she wouldn't know it...and neither would you or anyone else. We literally don't know what—or who—we're missing. Maybe I would be married and have three kids right now if my hypothetical husband's mother hadn't had an abortion in 1978. But hey—maybe he would have been abusive, so I dodged a bullet. I don't know, I can't know, and it's not worth fretting over. I live in the world that wound up happening.

I get the Schrodinger view. I don't get how "not knowing" equates to "does not deserve the chance", and cannot see that as any more than a copout.

I dunno. Apparently we're more upset about conservative views than homicidal ones. That's kind of telling.

@Spork: Just because I used a personal anecdote doesn't mean I was aiming for emotion.

There seem to be a conflict in terms, there is Life in the biological sense and their is Life in the philosophical sense. Lifers focus on the former while choicers focus on the latter

Really? I was more focused on the philosophical than anything.

What? I consider ovulation to be the event that "sets life in motion." Conception is just one of those milestones that may or may not be reached, like implantation, cell differentiation, and the beginning of organized brain activity. Can you explain to me why your milestone carries more weight than mine?

I'll be more specific then.

Sperm, outside of reproduction, will never become human over a natural course of time. It won't develop into anything unless it acts upon an egg. A basic fetus, however, will reach a human state naturally, assuming that the mother doesn't die. The fetus grows and develops, which is what I refer to when I say "motion".

It is possible to be so open minded that your brain start falling out. >_>

edited 16th Jan '11 2:55:00 PM by joeyjojo

Maybe that's why i'm so stupid.

A basic fetus, however, will reach a human state naturally, assuming that the mother doesn't die.

Or exercises her constitutional rights.

edited 16th Jan '11 2:57:01 PM by joeyjojo

Sperm, outside of reproduction, will never become human over a natural course of time. It won't develop into anything unless it acts upon an egg. A basic fetus, however, will reach a human state naturally, assuming that the mother doesn't die. The fetus grows and develops, which is what I refer to when I say "motion".

The fact that you think the sperm is what grows into an embryo just goes to show how ignorant you are of human reproduction. You really shouldn't be making pronouncements based on your tragically flawed understanding.

Newsflash, kiddo: embryos don't become babies automatically. It takes continuous, active input from Mama.

So again, a tiny fetus is a living human being.

A sizeable portion of fertilized eggs just naturally abort before the sixth week of pregnancy, sometimes entirely unnoticed. Should the woman morn this tragic loss of life? Is a miscarriage in the first trimester more or less tragic than in the second trimester? Or compared to a crib deaht? Like it or not, there is a hierarchy of tragedy at play.

[ed.]

Just because I used a personal anecdote doesn't mean I was aiming for emotion.

And the whole tirade about how something so beautiful had been lost if her mother had followed the directions of the cold, uncaring doctors? Sorry, but I could hear the heaving when you tried to pull our heartstrings.

edited 16th Jan '11 2:59:48 PM by JethroQWalrustitty

@Spork: I think everyone's learned that feeding him is the wrong idea.

@Karalora:

Who's going to be holding the shotgun? The state?

No, members of the woman's family. That's the old-fashioned way to deal with a rake!

@Spork:

Apparently we're more upset about conservative views than homicidal ones. That's kind of telling.

So sig-worthy.