A "cure" for Autism

If they could cure it, they should go right ahead. It's a disability like any other, so let's wipe it out.

(In a mood)

^A few questions.

• What about those who don't want it cured?
• what problems does it cause high functioning autistics that only a cure would solve?
• (This is much more general) Why should the children be "cured" before they have the bility to make an informed decision, as keeps being advocated, if they have the mental capacity to make an informed decision for themselves?

If those who are currently broken wish to remain broken, that's their problem, but children thus diagnosed should be cured and failure to administer the cure should be treated the same as failing to administer any other important medical treatment.

Autism isn't a 'lifestyle choice', it's a mental defect and should be eradicated.

Despite his lack of any tact, he does raise some points.

When is something a mental 'quirk' and which is a mental defect?

To hell with tact.

This the same as those morons who protested against cochlear implants because 'they are a slur on the deaf community; it's like they want to wipe us out'. Those people would condemn children to a life of disability because of their own inferiority complexes? Fuck them.

Just because lots of shut-ins with internet access either have or claim to have Autism, doesn't mean it isn't a sickness that needs to be cured.

edited 27th Apr '11 12:54:51 AM by InverurieJones

Deafness is a condition that is solely a disadvantage and more importantly is purely physical. A child regaining hearing is only a positive. Removing Autism effects the mind (essentially brainwashing) and can lead to positive as well as negative consequences. And forcing either children or parents to administer thus "cure' screams violation of rights.

I recall hearing talk of how difficult it is to predict who will be "high functioning" and who will be "low functioning" early in childhood, and the distinction is often arbitrary. That was part of the decision to get rid of the Asperger's diagnosis and replace all forms of autism with the diagnosis of an autism-spectrum disorder. I think I heard a piece about it on NPR, I'll see if I can find a link.

I didn't read the entire thread, but it seemed relevant since many people seemed to think it was appropriate to "cure" somebody with autism only early in childhood, or only if they were low functioning.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123527833

I'm just reluctant to be quantifying people.

"I don't know anybody who celebrates their dyslexia, and if dyslexics had the chance they'd probably fix it."

How about these guys?

"This the same as those morons who protested against cochlear implants because 'they are a slur on the deaf community; it's like they want to wipe us out'. Those people would condemn children to a life of disability because of their own inferiority complexes? Fuck them."

Actually, there are a lot of parallels between the deaf community and the autistic community. And it's not some 'inferiority complex'. It's believing that your life has value even though it's not the same kind of life that others lead.

"Just because lots of shut-ins with internet access either have or claim to have Autism, doesn't mean it isn't a sickness that needs to be cured."

I'm a 2nd year psychology major who often volunteers with artistic and/or disability-related volunteering opportunities, and attends karate class twice a week. And I'm diagnosed with PDD NOS and receive university accomodations. If I were to move out of home, I'd need assisted living as well.

And I think my life is worthwhile, and the lives of my friends are worthwhile. I don't think we need to become copies of everyone else in order to be worthwhile.

The thing is, is Autism a debilitation or a boon? I cant imagine people would be less smart without autism. I bet smart people who are autistic would be intelligent without it too.

There's autistics that consider it a boon, others that consider it a curse, and there are those who are in-between. This is also not a matter of losing intelligence, but of losing traits that make you "you".

I'm with Thorn here. I mean, being able to accept yourself for who you are is one thing. But I'm always utterly baffled by the attitude like there's amazingly valuable traits that are only possible to have if you're autistic, and having autism helped means becoming one of those utterly boring normals with no uniqueness or intelligence.

Why are you so certain you'll lose all of your personality traits? I mean, I suffer from depression, and I'm not under the impression I'll suddenly undergo a complete personality change if I ever have my depression cured.

edited 27th Apr '11 8:44:56 AM by Jeysie

^ The main connection between autism and genius seems to be obsessiveness. Autistic people typically are interested in one or two things very intensely, and spend almost every waking hour thinking about those things. This tends to lead to becoming very skilled in certain areas. For example, I read medical genetics journals in my spare time as a teenager, so I know more about rare chromosome disorders than most doctors do. But I know almost nothing about, say, urinary disorders, because I wasn't all that interested in that.

But I don't think a person's worth depends on their intelligence. So this is irrelevant. It's not because of my talents that I don't want a cure. It's because I enjoy being obsessive and stimming and various other things that are autism-specific. I don't think I'd be any less happy or worthwhile if I was NT, of course, but I wouldn't be me anymore.

...I know plenty of neurotypical people who are obsessive or hyperskilled in one area. Nothing's stopping you from continuing on in ways like that if that's what you like doing.

I mean, I'm not trying to push you into anything. I'm just saying that you seem to think that being neurotypical means automatically never having certain personality traits, or something.

edited 27th Apr '11 8:52:20 AM by Jeysie

I have a big anxiety and self esteem problem.

Sure they are part of my personality but I would get rid of them completely in a heart beat if I could.

Curing physical problems are all well and good, but when it comes to curing fuzzy mental issues...

well, lets just say I'd rather stick with what I grew up with and had to adapt to, instead of developing whole new coping mechanisms for what will arise from said change.

It is a slur on the deaf community. Considering how the deaf compensate for their lack of hearing, have a way of communicating effectively accessible to deaf and non-deaf people, and still contribute to society; to say that the deafness that defines them is something only to be eradicated is quite a slur.

Yes, but preventing deafness doesn't actually stop any of that contribution. Being deaf only causes problems.

@Jeysie and Thorn: I would cure my depression, OCD and Aspergers if I could, but I don't know what kind of person I'd be afterwards. I feel like they, and my attempts to be something in spite of them (poor as they are), are my only defining qualities. Remove all of them and I'd be little more than another loser who's not even worth a footnote in anything.

And that's not getting into messing with that part/s of the brain which give me my personality. What if the treatment I get for, say, Aspergers' Syndrome ends up mucking up something else?

But of course, this is not an actual logical argument (I mean my post, not the thread).

Not everyone knows sign language, and there are all sorts of limitations imposed on deaf people, such as what sort of jobs they can work etc. I don't see any advantage to being deaf. There is absolutely no reason not to fix it and give people an entire sense back, I can't take anyone trying to defend the decision not to fix that seriously.

"Why are you so certain you'll lose all of your personality traits? I mean, I suffer from depression, and I'm not under the impression I'll suddenly undergo a complete personality change if I ever have my depression cured."

Depression is different. It's a 'state' condition rather than a 'trait' condition. It's like the difference between wearing a T-shirt and being blond. One is something that applies to you in the moment, the other is an enduring characteristic that'll only change if you make some kind of special effort (I guess you could argue that changing your clothes counts as a special effort, but if you don't change then eventually the clothes will rot off or something). So depression couldn't possibly be part of your personality, any more than needing to pee is part of your body. It's just a state you are currently in.

Plus, depression by definition means you're unhappy. Autism doesn't. Some autistics are unhappy, some are happy - both states are equally compatible with being autistic. A happy depressed person is an oxymoron.

@Ettina Actually, my depression IS a part of my personality, in that for me personally it's a side effect of things like my tending to be a cynic and a pessimist, tending towards negative thinking, being an extreme introvert who tends to internalize things, putting myself under harsh standards, etc. The problem is just that I can't control those personality traits, so that they don't interfere with my life in ways that make me depressed.

I think that's the real crux here. Neurotypical people can and do sometimes have the various personality traits that autistic people describe themselves as having. So the difference isn't that neurotypical people always completely lack certain traits, it's that they can control them. An obsessive neurotypical person, for instance, can channel their obsessiveness into productive pursuits and can put their obsessiveness on pause when it's detrimental to a situation.

Now, I think Icarael does have a valid point, in that whenever we mess around with mental functioning it can sometimes have unintended consequences. But I still think it's erroneous to assume that becoming neurotypical will automatically and necessarily involve removing certain traits you have, as opposed to just channeling them into less troublesome areas/giving you control over them.

I mean, personally I like having a brain that doesn't shut off, I'd rather be a cynic and "realist" than a blind optimist, I like the self-reflection that being an introvert gives me, etc. I just hate how it tends to make me miserable and combines with other odd traits to make me socially awkward.

edited 27th Apr '11 8:04:08 PM by Jeysie

"So the difference isn't that neurotypical people always completely lack certain traits, it's that they can control them. An obsessive neurotypical person, for instance, can channel their obsessiveness into productive pursuits and can put their obsessiveness on pause when it's detrimental to a situation."

No, that's more like the difference between high functioning vs low functioning autism, I think. I can channel my obsessions or put them on pause if I must (though it's much more fun not to). Very few non-autistic people have an obsession to the strength of mine (except social interaction, most N Ts are obsessed with that). Those who do are considered part of the 'broader autistic phenotype' - you see, autism's not a dichotomy, it's a spectrum, from regular NT —> broader autistic phenotype —> high functioning autistic —> low functioning autistic. (Except it's more complicated, since every different part of autism can be at a different point on that spectrum, such as a highly sociable nonverbal guy with minor obsessions, or a verbally skilled loner with very extreme obsessions, etc.) Most lower functioning autistics I've met seem to have my quirks taken Up To Eleven, and without the self-control and/or social knowledge to fake normal like I do.

Yes, I know autism is a spectrum, thanks.

And, well, I'm afraid that's the only difference I can think of, because the simple fact is that your belief that only autistic people have certain personality traits just is not the reality.

I mean, for instance, while I don't know you well enough to compare to you specifically, like I said, I know plenty of obsessive neurotypicals. Being that I hang out in a number of fandoms for various geek pursuits, and I find it very hard to believe that ALL of the obsessive people in said fandoms are autistic.

Of course, on the negative side, there's plenty of problems that neurotypicals share too, just for different reasons.

(I mean, for instance, I have an extremely hard time relating to people in social situations. Not because I can't pick up on how people feel or what's making them feel that way, but because 99% of the time I just don't understand why that certain thing or gesture or whatever makes them feel that certain way.)

edited 28th Apr '11 9:32:55 AM by Jeysie