Subverting a Double standard

Ever notice how a man who hates women is always a sexist He-Man Woman Hater but a woman who Does Not Like Men is almost always sympathetic and has a good reason.

This seems like a huge Double Standard why is it okay for women to hate an entire gender but when a man does it he's a jerk? It would be really interesting to see a story where a man has a sympathetic reason for his aversion to women or a woman who has no excuse for hating men she just finds them below her. (But not in the same work because that would be hypocritical)

Heh, it's sad that I do this in a way, but that's because of fighting my own inner demons. (I have a strong feminist streak, so I like to have a more exaggerated version of myself as a bad guy, just to remind myself how much of an annoying prick I am)

But yeah, I have noticed this. El Goonish Shive is one, and even more minor examples like Battle Royale, where the girls in the lighthouse decide to not contact guys, would never be tolerated if it was gender bent.

edited 16th Dec '10 12:50:19 PM by MrAHR

Sometimes the pernicious double standards of today ended up from a previous subversion of the old standard, and I think this is one of those.

Husky from Plus Anima I think is an example of a subversion.

edited 16th Dec '10 12:55:38 PM by PsychoFreaX

I'd rather see a work Avert a Double Standard rather than Subvert it.

@Jewely: You see a modified version of it with men; he doesn't hate women per se, but he's a cynical bastard where women are concerned. On the outside he's a lech, but deep down he just wants a woman to see past his shell and his faults...and think he's more than what he pretends to be. There's a trope for it I'm sure, but its the reverse of "man-hating woman".

I agree though, it ain't possible to write a woman-hating man without making him a dick in the eyes of the audience....Probably because when men hate something, they're generally violent towards it and punching a chick is still an automatic Moral Event Horizon for most people.

It's not entirely impossible for someone to have their audience feel sympathy towards the woman hater though. Imagine this scenario:

As a child, Bob was abused by his mother. She was a drinker, she always blamed all of her problems on her ex-husband, and, when it came to it, she would outright beat her children for her problems.

As Bob grows older, psychologically he ends up labeling all women as having a similar personality to his mother, thus ends up hating them.

There's always a way. I'd feel sympathy for a character like that. I think what the OP was getting at was that it's easier to generate an automatic connection to a woman who hates men than the other thing.

Which I'd agree with as being true, and as being sexist.

"But not in the same work because that would be hypocritical"

It can work. You can have a women who hates guys portrayed good, guys who hate women portrayed bad, women who hate guys portrayed bad and of course you can guess, guys who hate women portrayed good.

But then you'll have to end up with Loads And Loads Of Characters so that it doesn't stand out too much as a theme.

edited 22nd Dec '10 10:41:25 AM by PsychoFreaX

@Drunk: The Ugly Truth character archetype, you mean?

It's as valid as saying "I guess guys should be critisized for sleeping around because women are," rather than "You know, I think women should be allowed to sleep around without being socially mistreated."

I know, Xeno! I was disappointed to hear from someone younger than me (he was in college) that the double standard is gone but not for the better: wreckless sex is now encouraged for everyone. It may not be unfair anymore (which is good), but the STD danger and pregnancy chance were disregarded.

To get back on topic, I have also noticed that happen, and I agree with Morven as to why it's this way now.

edited 19th Dec '10 5:20:25 AM by colbertimposter

I actually rarely see the Man-Hating Woman sympathetically. Usually I see her used as a Straw Feminist.

Depends on the intended audience, though. If a work is aimed at "bros," then the woman-hating man (who probably won't hate women so much as see them as objects) will be played up as "Wimmin, they're from other planets and mess up our manworld, amirite?" whereas if a work is aimed at "chicks" the man-hating women will be portrayed in the vein of "Men are keeping us down and we must unite against the patriarchy as wymyn!"

Obviously there are works that don't succumb to this, but it seems that the only ones I can remember are ones that do. I find any gender-hating character unsympathetic for the most part though, as I do any race-hating character or whatever other demographic can be applied.

punching a chick is still an automatic Moral Event Horizon for most people

To be fair it would depend really on the context