The Nonexistent Youth Bill: The Deathknell to All Lolicon

Yes, of course, but you'll notice you don't get the same level/quantity of fandom for cartoons from other cultures as you do for Anime (with the possible exception of American cartoons. Being American, it's hard for me to gauge this, but I do get the impression that at the very least "The Simpsons" is something of a world wide phenomenon, as is a lot of Disney productions). Like, I've seen people that give high praise to Franco-Belgian cartoons (just to give an example), but they're a lot rarer, and typically a lot less fanatic, than the anime fandom.

And with all due respect: "I've seen people who treat anime as something beyond cartoons from other cultures, but that's because they're fans of one and not the other." is kind of a "no duh" statement, so I'm not sure where you're going with that XD.

I don't know if you think I'm trying to make the all too popular "Anime > Western cartoons!!!111!!!" argument. I'm not. But I do think that many people turn to anime to get something that's currently hard to get in Western cartoons [in my case, an openness to certain varieties of fanservice and a greater willingness/ability to discuss certain types of sexual/romantic relationship (homosexuality, incest, etc.) that only a handful of American animated works (mostly adult comedies) could get away with (ok, and a greater leaning towards drawing styles that I, personally enjoy. Which is to say that anything that uses the "classic anime" style for faces tends to suit my tastes more than most things that don't)], and I think this bill attacks a lot of those things (not the faces, though. I'll give it that).

(And incase you need to ask, yes, I do suspect that the relative trend of people obsessing with anime is at least partially self-perpetuating, hense the use of the word "meme" in the term. But I don't think it's the ONLY reason, as should be clear by now :-p.)

Anyway, I dunno if that helped clear up anything. I mean, your post looked to me like an attempt to correct me, but since everything you said is something that I pretty much consider a given, I'm... a little confused by this?

[EDIT ADDED:]

Yes, I realize I just completely ignored simple differences in common genre tropes outside of those of "mature" nature (IE: The relative scarcity of humongous mecha in Western cartoons) and their possible contribution to the fandom, so yeah, correcting that here. I still strongly believe that my point stands, though :-p.

edited 2nd Jul '11 1:34:36 PM by LordDivides

As for me, the reason I like anime and don't like western cartoon is mostly because anime is more likely to focus in a storyline and less on Negative Continuity shit. I am aware there is cartoons that thee is cartoon with a building plot, but there are comparatively less common then in anime.

As for manga vs comics, I like manga more because it has a tendency to end their storylines, instead of dragging on forever. The non-existence of the annoying American tradition of changing writers mid publication also contribute immensely, as it makes the quality of the work much more consistent.

When I was a child, I did not make distinshon between Japanese and American (or of any other country) works. Yet, I stick mostly with anime/manga, because they give me what I wanted.

Same here...it took me a realize until I noticed that most of the stuff I preferred had a distinctive style.

Oh, and anime do draw more attractive characters most of the time. For every Rapunzel western animation gives us, well...type "Rapunzel" in gelbooru. Theres a bit of YMMV at work of course...and most of them are fanarts as well.

Oh, and of course, anime is in general, less restrictive by a large margin. Do you know what REALLY pissed me off about Avatar? The cop-out way they defeated Fire Lord Ozai instead of just killing him. And the clumsy way they handled Jet's "death".

---

If you want a more general reason that could apply to everyone...quite simply, Sturgeon's Law.

It applies to almost everything. But since anime greatly outnumber watchable western cartoons nowadays*

, by a large margin, even if you believe in Sturgeon's Law, that 10% gold anime can produce will still a considerable amount of gold compared to what western animation has been offering lately.

And the nice thing about Sturgeon's Law...anyone with a tiny bit of pattern recognition can eventually judge what is shit and what is gold if they have enough experience. Even if shit/gold is YMMV, you know what you yourself think is gold and what is shit.

Which is why I already know Blade anime will fail thanks to pattern recognition.

---

Oh right, umm, on-topic.

Crucify every Moral Guardian in the world!

edited 2nd Jul '11 5:28:33 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Judging by how every studio and publisher has ignored the "threat" of this entirely and just kept going through with their regular anime and manga production, I'd say that this thing is going to continue to have no effect whatsoever.

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."

Can someone tell me what this actually means for once without resorting to hyperbole in either direction. Obviously this bill has had some effect, but it isn't the end to anime culture either.

These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.

Okay. This was made to prevent smut from being sold to kids. Pure and simple.

You're over simplifying.

As I've mentioned, it doesn't seem to have had any effect whatsoever, aside from three manga I don't recall the titles of, which might possibly be coincidence. If they were worried, publishers and studios would've taken this into consideration. Yet when you look at the summer and fall lineups, they clearly have just ignored it. So most of the worry over this was overblown.

Yes, yes he is.

edited 4th Jul '11 9:22:44 AM by AnnoR

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."

Yeah, Aki Sora just came to a sudden and contrived end a month or two before this went into effect and had it's tank printings canceled completely by coincidence. But let's not talk about that, let's talk about the bridge from London to San Juan that you're going to buy from me.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

^ I haven't finished building it yet! You can't sell it while it's still incomplete!

There were about three manga that got cancelled, and it's a shame it happened and it makes Ishihara even more of a dick. That said, there are tons of manga and anime that aren't being effected at all.

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."

So Aki Sora if revived, might undergo the inevitable Bleached Underpants treatment if it had to go back.

Or return under a different publisher...if one exists.

edited 5th Jul '11 12:18:12 AM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

The other two manga that got canceled were yaoi, right?

At least, that's what I rmember as being the first casualties of this bill, before Aki Sora was affected.

My standard Anime Theme song game variant rules: [Censored by ACTA]

I don't know the details on the first two. But those three are the only ones that have been effected at all.

"Oh, dear. The toad, the monkey, and the dog have all screwed up."

And that's why....this bill is still a bad thing even if the damage has been minor so far. It's lingering presence can do no good, even if the harm it does is rather small so far.

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

I am pretty sure protests and demands will overturn this bill.

http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/something-people-overseas-can-do-fight-misconceptions-about-bill-156-and-japan/

The bill is not banning porn from being sold to children. That is already banned. What it does do, however, is widen what is considered "adults only". Its vagueness makes it possible for the government to ban any manga, video game, or anime that features romance between people who aren't allowed to marry in Tokyo. So not only does that cross out Star-Crossed Lovers, but it could even technically ban romantic Funny Animals (Animals can't marry) as well as depictions of homosexuality. It's banning ecchi too. So, at least Ishihara isn't going out of his way to ban all this stuff (even though the adults only section is seriously wrong these days) but this sets an alarming precedent for a modern Peace Preservation Law.

Surprisingly, minors can buy photographic porn as well as novels, including Ishihara's infamous rape novels which actually have in the past inspired real-life crimes. He got a lot of flak for that back in the day, so it's quite ironic that in this day and age he would be saying that New Media Are Evil.

edited 6th Jul '11 6:33:35 PM by TorchicBlaziken

Cue someone telling you it's completely wrong and point out it does more harm than good in three... two... one...

It's completely wrong and it does more harm than good!

No, seriously though, yeah, Dan's my main source of info for this, so thanks for bringing him up (again, I believe. I think I first found out about him here, but I may be remembering wrong and I'm too lazy to search back through the umpteen pages or so I'd have to to find this). As far as I can tell, he seems to know what he's talking about, and... yeah... going by what he's saying and what little I've seen elsewhere, Ishihara has made some claims that this bill is about protecting the youth, but it's pretty clearly not designed to do that.

What it DOES seem to be designed to do is kicking manga-artists in the gonads repeatedly XD (along with certain minorities, considering the nature of the "undue glorification" clause XD).

Well, just because it can technically be used to ban that kind of anime from TV (or preventing sales of certain manga to children) doesn't mean that it is being used for that purpose. Mawaru Penguindrum is already hard proof of that. I'm sure that the interrupted incestuous kiss scene at the end of the first episode was probably meant as a Take That! to Ishihara and this bill. It wouldn't surprise me if the very reason that Mawaru Penguindrum exists at all is to troll Ishihara, although it's hard to tell as Kunihiko Ikuhara would probably include a lot of depictions of stuff that Isharara wants to ban (incest, gays, lesbians etc.) is his works regardless of events surrounding the industry.

edited 10th Jul '11 5:48:04 AM by flygon250

My standard Anime Theme song game variant rules: [Censored by ACTA]

Considering how Ikuhara hasn't been in the anime scene for more than a decade, I'd be shocked if he didn't come back partly to give a big fat middle finger to the bill. <<;

edited 10th Jul '11 4:44:03 AM by Servbot

There's no reason to believe it, but it must be true!

He must still be embarrassed over 'The World of S & M'.

Just have all the tropers located in Tokyo right now assassinate the damn governor. The ban is in effect already and assassinating him will prevent it from being enforced.

edited 11th Jul '11 12:36:09 AM by djmaca

...a little brother should belong to his older sister, right? - Orimura Chifuyu