Student protests in London lead to violence

OK, the idiots who got violent are most to blame, but nobody comes off well. What exactly did the students think mobbing a a sixty-something couple would get them? That's a terrible way to protest. And really? Nobody stopped the riot before this? How many policemen does London have, seven? Why wasn't anyone guarding that car?

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

Its not like they initiated the policy. No excuse to attack them.

But the police also got out of hand.

edited 10th Dec '10 8:37:09 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?

From this BBC story:

Now, it may just be because I'm from the "wrong" side of the Pond, but carrying around those kinds of things makes it sound, to me, like at least some of the protesters had specifically attended the demonstration for the sake of causing harm.

And attacking the car with Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall in it? That doesn't sound even remotely justifiable to me, even with the worst interpretation of police response. I mean, I'm not anywhere near an expert on the UK government, but aren't the royals kind of lacking in personal power? You know, that whole "constitutional monarchy" thing and all.

All your safe space are belong to Trump

Actually they had bodyguards who would have shot to kill in the event of a serious attack on their car.

^ Idiots will be idiots. And the Royal Family are still potent as a symbolic institution.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

^^ One of the problems is that while most of the students are only there to peacefully protest, you get students who go there just to riot - the BBC news report also cited things like golf balls and, in one case, a potato that were thrown at the police. This was before the kettling, I believe; to be honest, I'm seeing less and less reason for the police to not try to suppress the impending riots.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it seems to me that this man is actively encouraging more violence on student protests.

More like trying to stay neutral when he should be providing clear leadership.

Just because people are angry, and because a lot is at stake, is not a reason to get violent. I, for one, am more impressed by a stoic, disciplined march where no violence is undertaken, but where a clear point is put across, than I am by a violent outburst like this.

We're supposed to live in a democratic society. The whole point of a democratic society is the ability to change the course of government without recourse to violence. Thats the entire point of the system which forms the governmental bedrock of western-style government everywhere.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

Protesters are getting more and more frustrated. While I hope there isn't any more violence, the heavy-handedness of the police plus the blithe way the government is ignoring them is ramping up the anger and frustration among students and those hoping to become students, myself included  ^*

.

It'd be less insulting if this was a purely Tory measure, because it's exactly the kind of thing we'd expect from them, but it's not. The Liberal Democrats pledged not to raise fees before the election and students form a significant part of their power base. Many people voted for them on that basis, myself included - I even joined the damn party.

edited 11th Dec '10 11:12:37 AM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

Maybe it's because I'm not from the UK, but this whole deal seems rather childish, even with this law it won't be half as expensive to get an education over there for new students as it is here, but obviously they are used to different standards than us.

It just seems a little bit overboard to riot over something like that, between this, Frances student riots, and Germany, European early twenties age students sure seem ready to be up in arms about lots of things.

The majority of students will pay less under this system than they did under the previous system, just due to the repayment cap. But every student believes they will be in the hard-hit minority.

Something of an inverse of the Appeal to Worse Problems fallacy; while the British students "have it better" than their American counterparts, it doesn't mean that they can't complain when it gets worse for them.

And in any case, this movement is, quite frankly, riddled with poor communication and bad publicity; the main thing everyone knows about the fee increase is that the cap is being raised. Anything else that comes with that isn't well known, really, so any merits to the idea are relatively unknown compared to students supposedly collapsing under the great debts imposed upon them.

The fact that the government is stopping all funding for the arts is also not a good thing.

That includes geography before anyone gets smart alecky.

I know if my college tuition tripled, I'd be on the streets protesting.

^ My college tuition rose 3 times while I was in yet I didn't go around rioting like a bunch of wanking hooligans.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

You can go and demonstrate without being violent you know.

I'm not supporting violence but they have every damn reason to be angry.

I lost my entire scholarship due to State budget cuts and I was PISSED. I can only imagine how angry I would be at this.

Angry because you have to do something yourself for once? I see no reason for them to be angry. College isn't something your supposed to be fed from a teat! It's for those who choose to go there and once there choose to get a degree. It's neither a right nor should it be. There are at least a dozen ways to pay for it. The sob story that "I can't afford college, I never saved any money" is unacceptable nay HOGWASH! There are scholarships provided by non-governmental agencies (for every possible reason under the sun I've come to know.), there are student loans, there's getting a fucking job or two while you're attending and more. College isn't and is not supposed to be a goddamned kegger partyfest, people go there to learn so they can have a chance at a better life. It's not the kind of thing that's supposed to be handed out like candy or a welfare check, not everyone can get or deserves to get a college education.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

You do know that most of the students, in fact nearly ALL of the students protesting aren't going to be affected by this? They are campaigning because it damages the wish for people from underpriveliged backgrounds going to universities and because the majority of students after them are going to be charged ludicrous amounts simply for wanting a good education.

And Tom, just because you are too lazy or unconcerned by the fact that you are being charged 3 times what you thought you were (I'm suprised you aren't more incensed considering how much you usually hate governmental controls) then its your lookout, don't blame these people for trying to help others.

And as a side note, I thought you were joining the army, why the hell are you at college?

And there aren't none governmental programs over here Tom, there are perhaps a few run by the actual uni's themselves, but they are being cut down after their budgets were cut, so they have had to raise prices on tuition fees and loans! "Not having saved" doesn't really make much sense in a country where there are no jobs avaliable at all.

edited 11th Dec '10 4:32:01 PM by JosefBugman

The problem there, Major Tom, is that the previous government insisted that everyone should get to go to university, leading to a vast number of university graduates sorting mail in 2006 (when I spent a while sorting mail) and not enough money to fund all the people who were in university. So they got the Scots to vote to let universities charge a lot more money.

Sadly it's not a situation that goes away. So many graduates applying for whatever job they can get quickly means that if you're not a graduate you have real trouble getting any job at all. Thus you get forced through university, only now there's even less money available. Rinse, repeat.

I never planned to go to university. I got forced to because I couldn't get a job. Managed to make it most of the way through before the first massive leap in fees.

Edit: Josef, how do you conclude that this will stop underpriveliged students going to university? They get the same loan opportunities that everyone else does. They pay nothing until they're earning £21,000 ($33,000) and less than those who went to university under the previous system until they're earning around £28,000 ($44,000)

edited 11th Dec '10 4:38:51 PM by Michael

So you know fuck all about the university culture here, the college systems, the points of protest and the appropriate use of the word wank, so why don't you try shush.

edited 11th Dec '10 4:41:30 PM by SomeSortOfTroper

Because you start off with upwards of over 45 grand in debt (my current debt is 15 grand and I've just finished uni) your not going to want to go to get a good job when it is going to saddle you with that much money "pissed away" especially when it is on a "commercial" interest amount that means there will be virtually no way to pay it back before you are about 40.

Because of the "commercial" interest rate. Its going to essentially mean its going to be like a "proper" loan, with all that that entails, all the gouging of prices and other things to ensure that it takes people that much longer to get rid of their debt.

edited 11th Dec '10 4:40:28 PM by JosefBugman

No, Josef, you won't be able to pay it off, any more than you would have been under the previous system. It's a disguised tax and it was when Labour forced it on us helped by their Scottish MPs who swung the vote knowing full well it would never affect Scottish students.

edited 11th Dec '10 4:41:28 PM by Michael

I will, the later ones won't. I am not on a rate of interest any greater than 1%, I have a decent chance of getting my education actually paid for as it does not start accuring intrest until I have started earning the registered amount to start paying it back.

The poor fuckers who will be starting uni this year? Not so much.

On £30,000 when will you pay off your loan?

Hold on, when did you graduate Josef?

I went to University under the £3000+ period of fees. Last I heard, this year's interests rates were set to zero (they are coordinate to the BOE so the plans to make easier credit at least benefitted us) but they accrue interest from the receipt of the very first payment.

20,000 in my case, I didn't take out a maintainance loan. And it may take ohhh... till I'm about 25 if I actually FIND a job. But atm, nowhere is hiring and I am not being charged for it and my loan is not accuring intrest.

This year. And I think I still have an interest rate, its just nothing to write home about atm.

edited 11th Dec '10 4:55:04 PM by JosefBugman