Super Smash Bros.

Having a normal character just be as if they had Mega Mushroom physics sounds awful.

And if they don't, Ridley just seems like he will be combo'd forever.

edited 26th Sep '17 12:45:28 PM by IceAnt573

Ridley's wings and tail aren't an issue. The wings aren't in the same z-axis plane as the fighters, so they wouldn't interfere, and the tail can just trail off to the side and only be a hitbox when it's being used for an attack.

Honestly, though I'm a proponent of having Ridley in Smash, his size is the biggest obstacle to that, no pun intended. It's a pretty fine line between too big to be playable and too small to adequately represent Ridley.

And you know what, Ridley is usually no more bigger than Bowser's usually been in the past few mainstream games, yet he's allowed to be in this game. And if they can adjust sizes for fucking Olimar to get in the game, then they can do the same for Ridley.

edited 26th Sep '17 1:03:15 PM by Ssj3Gojira

I mean, make him a head and a third taller than Samus. Rids has been all over the damn place- Hell, he goes from being large enough to grasp Samus in his hand to, while still large, around two and half times her size over the span of Prime 3.

Bowser changes sizes constantly, and has appearances that easily match his Smash Bros. size, such as in the Mario sports/Mario Kart games, and even in some of the RPGs like Super Mario RPG. So for him, there's precedent, and it's fairly constant.

Ridley also changes size through out the game, but he is consistently at least twice Samus' height, and unlike Mario, Samus is pretty tall to begin with. Besides, I'd argue that he kind of needs to be huge, considering how lanky he is otherwise.

edited 26th Sep '17 1:14:04 PM by AceTrainerEli

How many times have proportions been mentioned in response to the variable size of Bowser and Olimar?

If there's a new Metroid character that could be introduced in Smash, I think Sylux would be far more likely. By the time the next Smash enters production, I'll be Prime 4 will have been released, or it'll be pretty far into production. Considering that the endings of Prime 3 and Federation Force implied that Sylux is up to something, they would be an appropriate candidate.

Olimar and Kirby are actually sized up for Smash itself. That said, Ridley still needs to be somewhat large to represent his character.

I'm fine with the idea of him being somewhat big, but that comes with balance issues. Besides obviously large hitboxes, him being a large character(as in boss size) also means he wouldn't work under normal gameplay. To size him down to around Bowser's size(which isn't a big problem whatsoever in the sense of "downsizing him isn't really that odd, and he can be small if it works") still requires tons of balance. He's an imposing character and still needs to show that, akin to how Ganondorf still feels like a murderous master of power in the game. They got his characterization right. Ridley wasn't just known for flying or being tough, but he was imposing as hell, partially due to his size.

It's a very difficult situation for Sakurai. Keeping him more or less IC is very difficult alone. Just downsizing him is clearly not enough. Keeping the characterization, the gameplay balance, avoiding backlash due to many loving how big and imposing he is...

I think the concept of a Boss Mode, where a player can play as the Boss itself with their moves via the touch screen, etc. feels like a good alternative at this point. While it doesn't have all the same benefits as a regular playable character, it still could be a fun and interesting thing.

That said, reducing Ridley's size to be balanced isn't helped by how he has very few easy to work with models. The one in Melee and Other M's are two of the easier to reduce size options. Maybe he might get a better option. Other than a Retro Ridley(as in his original sprite in the 2D games), trying to make him playable with his normal 3D models is very hard to accomplish.

As for these size arguments, keep in mind Ridley isn't always at least double the size in every single appearance. Melee's is clearly just a bit bigger than Samus' during the intro, and that's even if you look at it "from a distance". He's always going to be taller than Samus, but that's the most guaranteed point. It's actually not that consistent of a size. Sometimes he's a bit bigger, other times he's towering over her. It's very similar to Bowser in this case. However, Bowser just has better proportions to work with. It's not really about his size-changing abilities, it's about the character model. Ridley's has a model that, as I said above, is hard to work with.

Ridley in Smash Bros. drinking game:

Take a shot every time someone:

• Mentions his appearance in Melee
• Complains about Other M
• Complains about Zero Suit Samus
• Links a size chart
• Links a video of a Ridley mod
• Mentions the canon heights of other characters
• Brings up Dark Samus as an alternate rep
  • Take another one if someone else says that they would play too similar to regular Samus
• Criticizes Sakurai
• Complains about clones
• Also brings up King K. Rool
• Complains about another character being in that they disagree with
• Mentions his appearance in the original Metroid

Down the bottle if somebody barges in with a drinking game...

Anyway, Ridley would work fine if balanced like Mewtwo: Fast, mobile and strong, but really light for his size.

Also this.◊

edited 26th Sep '17 1:49:04 PM by Eriorguez

I mean, we just got Ridley in Samus Returns, so there's a model to work with there.

Makes more sense than it does for Mewtwo, anyways.

Don't be pedantic with the given weights from the Pokedex, if you please.

I'm not talking about its weight in the Pokedex. I'm talking about its defensive stats, which are higher than Lucario's, Charizard's and Greninja's. Even if you account for different Base Stat Totals, the percent of Mewtwo's BST dedicated to its defensive stats is about even with Charizard and still way higher than both Lucario and Greninja.

edited 26th Sep '17 1:59:21 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Competitive Balance. Mewtwo's pretty OP both in-universe and in the main gameplay of Pokemon, so they had to balance him somehow. The Glass Cannon approach makes sense in that regard.

edited 26th Sep '17 2:09:59 PM by AceTrainerEli

Okay, after actually running the math, I realize that I actually exaggerated a bit when saying that Mewtwo is 'way' bulkier than Greninja and Lucario according to the percents of how their defensive stats factor in to their Base Stat Total. Here is a full list of all of the playable Pokemon and what the percentage of their BST is in their defensive stats in their home games, rounded to the nearest percent. A note: due to how defensive stats make up 3/6ths of all of a Pokemon's stats, anything less than 50% should be considered lighter than average.

Pikachu: 39%

Greninja: 40%

Lucario: 40%

Mewtwo: 42%

Charizard: 45%

Jigglypuff: 59%

edited 26th Sep '17 3:40:41 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

About the Ridley drinking game:

Drink if Bowser, Kirby, or Olimar are mentioned when talking about him.

You need a Ridley-sized liver for that.

Does Ridley even have a liver?

edited 26th Sep '17 4:04:52 PM by Geist-Fox

He bleeds green and can regenerate with time, ergo, he is a liver.

How cool would Zygarde be, either as a Pokeball or actually playable? If playable, give it something similar to Lucario where it gets more powerful as it gets more damaged, except Zygarde actually transforms and gets much heavier, slightly slower, and better range with each form. The transformation should function like an Assist Trophy, where you need to stand still on the stage to activate it.

10% Zygarde: super light and fast doggo. Let's say 73 weight. Transforms at 45% damage.

50% Zygarde: snek with longer reach but it's slower. 108 weight. Transforms at 85% damage.

100% Zygarde: super fighting robot with super long reach, slightly slower than snek. 140 weight.

Final Smash can be Core Enforcer, which fires a laser that carves a Z into the floor which then explodes, doing large damage and disabling all the B moves of any opponents hit by it who survive.

So if he was ever considered for the roster but dropped from it at a later point, would that make him chopped liver?

On a Metroid-related topic that isn't Ridley Debate #1 Trillion, I really wish Frigate was the returning Brawl stage instead of Norfair, I always liked that stage more than any of the previous stages, and it solved Brinstar Depths' weird gimmick of rotating arenas.

edited 26th Sep '17 6:38:51 PM by TechPowah

Not really...unless they changed how the rotation worked, it wasn't any better in that regard.

It's not too much different from the parts of Orbital Gate on the bombs, you just gotta jump at the right time or else it's a bad time.

edited 26th Sep '17 6:44:24 PM by TechPowah