Super Smash Bros.

Seems like once things were properly explained the old guy managed to catch on pretty quickly.

That sounds like something that would go on Not Always Right

The thing was that the clerk was some young punk who treated everything like crap. He might have been tired, but it came off as attitude and he had a very short and annoyed tone of voice.

He looked at me funny when I picked up a copy of Tomb Raider for my One.

I hate people sometimes.

I'm at least glad to hear Nairo say he surprised Japanese players with Robin and Lucina for that Umebura tournament since Japan seems to think Robin and Lucina are bottom 5 characters.

They need to see their Amiibo prices and then they will change their minds.

Amiibo prices have absolutely nothing to do with a character's viability. And not everywhere in the world has stock issues for the same Amiibo.

I like playing Robin. Doesn't mean that I see them as on the same level as Pikachu, but if you play them right, you can pull off some wins.

When I see a toy figure of a certain character be triple or quadruple the price than what it should be then yes, I think it does say a lot about their viability. It shows how popular they are outside of their games and that the fanbase wants more products featuring those characters.

And the whole Pikachu/Robin thing is subjective. I've had an easier time fighting Pikachu players than Robin players simply because Robin has a more varied arsenal and so has more ways to attack.

But that's just me.

I see what you mean, but what they're saying is competitively viable, I.E. how well they can do in tournaments, which has nothing to do with how popular they are.

All of the characters can do very well in tournaments. It depends on how you use them.

The attitude of the players however is another matter.

Theoretically? Maybe. But surely you can see that a good Sheik or Rosalina is much more likely to win than a good Zelda or Samus, by virtue of the tools and options available to them.

Clearly the people who play Zelda or Samus just have attitude problems.

As I always say, tier lists are like odds in horse racing.

A 2:1 is generally a safe bet, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for a 200:1 to win, although you won't see it nearly as often.

Once you start dealing with high-level play, where reactions are stupid quick and everything is analized on a frame-by-frame basis, the inherent strenghts and weaknesses of each individual character really start to show during matches.

They won't tell you what character will always win no matter what, but they give you an idea of who's more likely to take that victory.

Kind of 'd

edited 3rd Oct '15 3:31:49 AM by Elbruno

I'd also add that tiers are based on the idea of "perfect optimization"; that is, both players are equally skilled, and can get everything possible out of the characters.

Which, of course, isn't possible in the real world, thus leading to upsets where a Sonic is taken down by a Zelda due to a skill-gap.

Not to mention how malleable tier lists are.

A perfect example: the Melee Back Room released a joke tier list on April Fools' Day 2004 as an experiment listing, among other absurdities, Jigglypuff as #2.^note She was ACTUALLY #11 at the time; almost exactly at the halfway point.

People bought it. Jigglypuff use skyrocketed, and that's why she's #5, firmly in S-tier, today.

Tiers are basically just a usage rating combined with perceived potential.

It can shift dramatically when somebody discovers new ways to kick ass with an unexpected character.

All in all, it's mostly opinion backed with some fact. Heck, tiers don't matter shit if you just outsmart the other player.

I'm still curious what you think,Full Moon.

As for the suggested buffs I had for Mewtwo, Palutena, Ganondorf and Zelda, I'm trying to find them. Unfortunately, searching this site's forum history isn't particularly easy.

I'm in a stage-making rut. I'm having trouble figuring how to make unique yet unintrusive and recognizable layouts now.

So when do you think the Ballot characters will be announced?

When they're finished development.

How long does that take? I think maybe a month would be the shortest time to make a character for a fighting game.

I think they should at least show us the model of the highest voted character, similar to how the first unveiling of Mewtwo was just the model.

I have no idea how to buff those characters as I don't know them in depth.

I honestly wouldn't expect to hear anything (other than "Ballot's done! We're tallying now... Please look forward to future announcements!") before the end of this year/January. I'm sort of confused by the expectation that there'll be any sort of significant reveal or dramatic announcement right now just because the ballot ended.

Depends on if Sakurai peeked at the results awhile ago and figured the numbers were more or less settled, or if they decided to not start development (or even discussion) until the full results came in.

Most likely, Sakurai saw what characters were most requested after a certain point, and began discussion on what to do. It's not like you could really predict if there was gonna be some huge upset in the votes where a no-where possibility takes the lead, I'm sure the percentages three weeks ago are about the same as the final results.