North Korea

Did Iraq and Afghanistan become part of another country?

And before you even go there, making nations into puppet states is not territorial expansionism. No actual annexation is involved.

That's also why the Russian-Georgian war doesn't count. Because Russia didn't annex South Ossetia and Abkhazi.

All of which happened before the Persian Gulf War (I believe). So I'm standing by my original statement.

edited 13th Jan '13 1:01:34 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

yes it is exapansionism.

Case in point: The Kuwait Republic, which was "ruled" by a Kuwait junta and that granted citizenship to the arab quasi slave labour.

Or the Manchurian Kingdom made by the Japanese.

Or Communist polland, Germany...

edited 13th Jan '13 5:14:05 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

No it isn't! It might be Imperialism, but it's not territorial Expansionism.

Even if there a Satellite state they are not part of another nation's territory.

Therefore its not territorial expansionism, since a nation is not officially gaining or annexing territory.

edited 13th Jan '13 5:29:05 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

I never though I'd say this in my life, but I have to agree with Baff here. those Puppet states were basically thinly disguised territorial control.

in general puppet states are imperialism more than expansionism though.

edited 13th Jan '13 5:54:27 PM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack

And I still insist that if a nation is sovereign, even if only in name, then it can not be officially counted as another nation's territory.

The distinction between a puppet state and a territory might be small, but it still exists and matters.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016

Ah, well that is debatable, imo, for one reason: control of a territory is not boolean. There's varying grades of independence so I don't know what you want before you draw some arbitrary cut-off line and say it's territorial expansion.

Also, North Korea is not likely to go beyond anything but South Korea and given the dilapidated state of their economy, that's probably not happening. Plus the fact that China would never help them take SK (and they did not assist except indirectly back in the original hot duration of the civil war).

Also probably Russia with South Ossetia and China with Tibet are separate topics. You could probably lump in quite a few topics into that one though (such as NATO with Kosovo).

lol. I am not that unreasonable am I? Or maybe I am .

But as much as I like the discussion this is a derail alrady...I´ll concede anexation in form is out of vogue, but expansionism trough imperialism has always been prevalent and is alive and thriving.

Edit: I should have said Manchukuo not Manchurian Kingdom.

That thread would die in flame.

edited 13th Jan '13 9:14:27 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

To change the topic:

Ever wonder who the NK govermnt follows on Twitter?

Jimmy Dushku: the man North Korea is following on Twitter

edited 13th Jan '13 9:08:05 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

I would be very...concerned, if I was in that guy's shoes.

boop

Maybe he is, but putting a brave face on it.

If NK was following me on Twitter I'd start trolling them with Tweets about the importance of freedom of the press and having a multi-party state and so on.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

To the latter charge, they'd reply that technically they do have a multi-party system. It's just the other two parties always agree with the KWP.

Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/01/25/korea-dialogue/1863701/ North Korea is threatening war with South Korea should South Korea join in sanctions in retaliation to its planned missile launch test against the United States.

They'd have to be totally crazy to go through with that.

Schild und Schwert der Partei

It's a good thing they're not totally crazy, then.

Oh, wait...

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)

Maybe I'm being stupid but, how would they test a missile against the US? Wouldn't a US bound missile have to fly over Japan? I somehow doubt the Japanese are going to let a test missile into their airspace without shooting it down. Or am I thinking to two dimensionally?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

They aren't going to try and hit American territory with anything, the tests are just being placed in the context of a greater conflict with those "evil American imperialist capitalists" (I miss anything?).

Regarding South Korea and sanctions... does the South trade with the North at all anyway?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

North korea's trying to bluff. it's little more than a paper tiger. If there was war, their planes and armor would be out of fuel in days, and they'd be only 2-to-1 against a fully modern force with air support, armor, an a decent navy, not to mention The U.S. . Depending on their actions the Japanese might even lend air support,Likely only against targets that could threaten Japan(gotta maintain the "self defense only" thing), but still.

theres some minor tourism depending on the tensions at the time, and theres a "joint industrial area" that basically lets South Korean companies hire North Korean workers for really low wages, but that shuts down every time theres serious tensions. I think some North Korean animation studios do work for South Korean ones as well(I've heard they even did some work on Avatar The Last Airbender )

edited 25th Jan '13 3:00:30 PM by Joesolo

I'm baaaaaaack

They do — certainly some*

South Korean Animation is sub-contracted to the North.

edited 25th Jan '13 2:58:40 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On

As I understand it the main worry isn't so much that North Korea would be able to actually stand up to South Korea or its allies in a protracted fight, especially if China cuts them off which is looking increasingly likely. It's that, given how close it is to the border, North Korea could Zerg Rush Seoul before a South Korean and US could fully mobilise and respond.

that's why we've got a lot of patriots deployed there, and I think we're installing some Iron Domes as well

I'm baaaaaaack

I'm not exactly sure what the fuss is with the rocket testing, especially since they can be shot down by both Japanese and US anti-rockets. I mean, are rocket tests devastating? Why does "North Korea test firing missiles" cause fear and panic? I'm not a war fan so I'm not really aware of the implications going on.

I believe it has to do with "We don't want a North Korea has workable, reliable nukes". North Korea doesn't have the supplies for a long-term war in the slightest, but if they have working nuclear weapons, if they chose to, they could at least do a Real Life version of "If I'm going down, I'm taking you with me."

They're already a major headache to the US and the three major East Asian powers (Japan, South Korea, and China). The region's stability is built on very dry tinder as it is, and the entire region plus US interests really don't need it getting any worse.

If they're firing their missiles then, wouldn't that be wasting their ammunition? The more I think of this, the more I'm thinking they're less of a threat and more of a bully that would get pushed down if he actually did more than be imposing.

Well, they don't actually work well, so they're testing them — at the same time it proves their intent and tells other countries to keep away.

Keep Rolling On