Rank the Metal Gear Games

The ending was also shit.

It's like they send us on this wild ride and everything is essentially hunky-dory at the end? Except for Snake, of course, and Otacon is facing life as a single parent in a nomadic lifestyle. Despite doing the most to correct his own mistakes over many years.

So, basically a bunch of side-characters I didn't give a damn about got happy, pointless endings and the characters I did have investment in got jack.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

^ Not true. Snake was going to die, but resolved to spend his remaining time living as a man instead of a warrior. Ocelot achieved his goals and toppled the Patriots. Raiden (who nobody other than me would have cared about) got a life and a son. Hell, even Big Fucking Boss got a relatively happy ending, choosing to die on his own terms, ending the reign of the patriots once and for all and making peace with his son. CQC-hug? Yes please.

Against all tyrants.

MGS 4 ruined everything in the series as far as I'm concerned. Really. It assassinated every character it could and it reeks of Kojima trying to connects dots that were never supposed to be connected.

Token from MGS 3 is one of the uber awesome evil Patriots! So is Para Medic! ...no, just no.

Also while people always talk about The Boss, I felt Solidus was a far better antagonist simply because he was right and fighting him was doing exactly what the real villains wanted. He added a greyness to the morality of MGS.

edited 14th Nov '10 6:19:11 AM by Nikkolas

MGS 3 MGS 4 MGS 1 MGS 2

Snake Eater was completely brilliant, all there is too it. Even now, years after release it doesn't feel dated, the controls were great, the plot was great, the music was excellent, the boss encounters were creative. The fourth i think was a fitting grand finale, especially going back to the island.

Wow, no love for Sons of Liberty, huh? I'd rank them thus:

MGS 3 MGS 2 MGS 1 MGS 4

Honestly, I loved the mind screwiness of 2; it's not the best story in the series, but it is mt favorite. Overly self-indulgent on Kojima's part? Maybe so, but I still thought it was great. Also, I highly enjoyed MGS 4's story, and I'd say it has the best gameplay in the series. I thought the story was very well done as well, but one major flaw kept it from being ranked higher: it wasn't really Liquid, it was Ocelot having "self-hypnotized" himself or some shit. That was bullshit and ruined the ending for me, especially since they'd gone out of their way in 3 to show his dad was a spirit medium, explaining how he'd be able to channel Liquid's spirit. Seriously, I wrote a whole essay on how that one little detail spoiled the story. Actually, heresy though it may be, the first game was the one I enjoyed the least (never even finished it, to be honest).

I'll turn your neocortex into a flowerpot!

But being possessed wouldn't have fit Ocelot's image that well.

edited 14th Nov '10 10:55:27 AM by Ana

The biggest flaw with MGS 4 can be summed up with one name:

Johnny.

Please elaborate.

Long live Cinematech. FC:0259-0435-4987

Mostly complaints about how Johnny was just some joke character who gets the Scrappy treatment just because he saves and marries Meryl.

Also while people always talk about The Boss, I felt Solidus was a far better antagonist simply because he was right and fighting him was doing exactly what the real villains wanted. He added a greyness to the morality of MGS.

Funny, switch Solidus and The Boss and you get what MGS 3 was about.

Also, I don't get how MGS 3 was sappy when MGS 2 was all about melodrama. Especially Rose/Raiden's happy talks about HIS ROOM LOOKING LIKE A PRISON BAWWWW

edited 15th Nov '10 12:29:45 AM by JackMackerel

Half-Life: Dual Nature, a crossover story of reasonably sized proportions.

^^A joke character who chronically shits himself was turned into a bishonen badass in the last few scenes and ends up marrying Meryl after an incredibly awkward love scene

^^ The Boss and Solidus have one thing in common. They both had visions of how they wanted to change the world.

But whereas The Boss was simply daydreaming, Solidus went out and attempted to make his vision a reality. The Boss gave up her life to a country that couldn't care less about her because, in her mind, soliders are worthless pawns and deserve to be used and discarded.

Solidus on the other hand gave his life in an attempt to overthrow the real villains instead of just meekly agreeing to die a pointless death.

Also MGS 3 was sappy because it didn't even try to be intellectual. MGS 2 was all about getting in your head. MGS 3 was all about pulling at your heart strings.

And nothing defines melodrama more than The Boss' death.

Kojima: I need this death to be special...and memorable. For that, I need a special and memorable location. But how..?

Oh, I know! I'll have a field of white flowers appear for no fucking reason and then disappear when she dies!

Oh and how about her scar? It'll turn into a snake, because the heroes are snakes ya know, and slither away!

It's really sad when you're so desperate to have a death mean something that you have to just shift the entire location for no real reason to some place else and then back again.

edited 15th Nov '10 7:26:11 AM by Nikkolas

The Boss said that countries believe this. She didn't.

dysfunctional human artistry

No, that's what she believed.

Boss: Having personal feelings about your comrades is one the worst sins you can commit. Politics determine who you face on the battlefield. And politics are a living thing. They change along with the times. Yesterday's good might be tomorrow's evil.

[..] A soldier has to follow whatever orders he's given. It's not his place to question why. But you're looking for a reason to fight. You're a natural born fighter, but you're not quite a soldier. A solider is a political tool, nothing more.

That's the entire point of MGS 3. The Boss killed the father of her child because she was ordered to. She threw away her life because she was ordered to.

Big Boss took away a message from this and he passed it on to Gray Fox who passed it onto Snake who finally passed it on to Raiden.

"We're not tools of the government, or anyone else. [...] At least I always fought for what I believed in."

The Boss believed in something but fought for nothing. She fought because she was told to. Everyone who came after her took away the lesson of her wasted life.

Fight for what you believe in. Big Boss believed in giving soldiers a place to fight forever. Snake believed in creating a world without fighting.

For better or worse, they fought for their ideals now and weren't just tools to be cast aside.

Hm, I should finish the game again.

Anyway, I think The Boss is a better final villain. She actually affected things. Despite all Solidus said and did he was just a pawn. The Boss was a pawn, but she affected the future by guiding Big Boss and Snake. Solidus just died having proven nothing.

And his entire speech at the end, while persuasive, lacked any of the emotional depth that I felt in The Boss's speech. Of course, your mileage will vary greatly on this.

dysfunctional human artistry

Well they are very different characters and their speeches were also very different.

And while I gave The Boss shit, Solidus was a rather cold and selfish man too. Sure he wanted to help the world be free of the Patriots but a big reason for that was he wanted to make a mark in history.

Selfish but believable and sympathetic of course. Everyone wants to be recognized and appreciated.

Just like The Boss really. I felt bad for her as well. She gave up everything for the country. I don't agree with her ideals but I respect the sacrifices she made for them.

So yeah. Whether you like one or the other more is entirely a matter of preference.

edited 15th Nov '10 10:17:08 AM by Nikkolas

On Meryl:

Her whole love subplot was bullshit. I had no reason to care about her, since she was obviously an ineffective soldier and a bad leader who spent the entire game being an asshole. Then she fell in love with some diarrhea-stricken joke character that I didn't give a shit about, then Kojima spent way too much time on a scene between the two that I didn't care about. Then it all ended in a wedding I didn't care about.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

Mine: 1. MGS 3 (haven't played any others)

I just gotta say that, when it comes to music, MGS 1 is and always will be the best IMO.

One of the reasons why Wolf's death is probably the most memorable and tragic in the series is the song they play for it. (they didn't have it in TTS. What crap)

There's also "The Best is Yet to Come" - one of the best credits themes in all of video games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URTt_imRTlM

And many, many more.

edited 16th Nov '10 7:26:06 PM by Nikkolas

Agree

ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.

Overall (just gushing no complaining, at least not in this section)

MGS 4: it manages to conclude Snake's story in a masterful way. is it perfect? no. but it feels awesome and powerful. although i admit that my reasons for this are Act IV and Act I. few stories and levels have been better written in the history of gaming. i know how many enemies i gained but i don't care. as for the ending, well i wrote Alternate Character Iterpretation for snake's last moments. as for Ocelot Faking you-know-what, honestly i don't believe it. all this birefing is given by guy who himself was briefed by the not most trustable people here (yeah i know loads of Fan Wank) i believe that at some points he was possesed and that at some other ppoints he had control and overtime decided to play the Memory Gambit. now naomi's death well to me she always was a scrappy. a sexy one but a scrappy nonetheless. i know how many are going to tell me that MGS 4 was a sappy, boring melodramatic piece of crap, but i don't care

MGS 3: this is the most beloved one in here it seems. to me it is the most powerful and emotional game in the series. but it lacks the pathos and general nostalgia of the above. anyway it is still a really powerful experience and it's the one game i can play endlessly. it has the cleverest boss battles (that's right i went there...) and it has the greatest Player Punch this side of Heavy Rain. the only sad thing is how anticlimatically easy was the shagohod

MGS 2: here's the weird part. i didn't play this one but i saw all the cutscenes and i enjoyed it. i honestly believe that most of the hate comes from the change of protagonist without announcement. it's daring clever and imaginative, and i know how much i sound like a straw critic but i admired everything it did. is it perfect? no some of the things i admire it more in a sort of "great a game finally questioned it's own media" than a OMG it's PEEEEEEEEEEERFEEEEECT. i never complained

MGS 1:sadly i never played it, did the same that with the above and i was awesome pretty ood and imaginative. it had the greatest enemy Snake has ever faced (Liquid) and it actually takes care of fleshing their rivalry in a clever and fun way. it was the right levels of gritty and dealt with the many things that make snake tick. it's the greatest character study in gaming and it deserves all the praise it gets.

Now the complaints. but i have to say something first *Ahem* Candle Jack. now with that out of the way we ca

It's not exactly naive. And it can happen. But it's tough. And definetly worthwhile.

I have played MGS 2, 3, 4, and peace walker. Still trying to play rising and the original Solid.

Actually, I played the game, and while I don't hate Raiden (never hate him, but Rose was annoying for me) the game is simply not that fun to play. Awkward controls, annoying boss fights (Dead Cell members, btw, Solidus, Olga, the Rays and the Herrier were pretty cool).

Now, I think Solidus is probably the most underrated villain in the franchise. He was ruthless and you could say a monster, but he was fighting for something noble, something that you, the player, unintentionally would put the world in ruins. Solidus Was Right.

Snake role in MGS 2 is great, not only we get to see him in action being a badass in the eyes of someone else, but he has my favorite personality in this game. I like to play as him, of course.

In Antagonist rank, I would say:

1. The Boss

2. Solidus Snake

3. Revolver/Liquid Ocelot

4. Liquid Snake.

MGS 2 digital novel have a way too anticlimactic ending, but the plot and characterization was better made. Raiden being a sarcastic badass was a good move, but Snake killing his bastard brother (I mean, he and Solidus aren't that related to begin with) was a really bad move.

edited 18th Jun '14 1:37:54 AM by Tomodachi

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

Just to keep it simple: 3 (because anything that actually makes me fucking cry deserves to be on the top in my book), 4, PW, 1, 2, MPO.

(My memory's fuzzy regarding the original two, so I left them out.)

"I do not approve of the fact that my favorite quotes are too long for this character limit." - Me

Not too sure why you dug this conversation from it's grave, especially given how it's almost 4 years old.

edited 17th Jun '14 11:49:03 PM by SgtRicko

I didn't notice it was that old.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.