Rebuild of Evangelion

They. Were. Busy.

Seriously, there was an angel attack as he was waking up, and then after that, Rei Q attacked the ship. Did they have to ignore him for a minute? Yeah. But the disaster in the film is caused just as much by Shinji's stubbornness as it is Gendo's manipulations. Something the "Everybody Hates Shinji" crowd completely ignores because they want to wallow in grief.

And that's exactly why the trope pages for the movie are so full of that mentality and why for a while Bitch in Sheep's Clothing was on Sakura's character sheet despite her doing nothing wrong.

edited 28th Jan '16 4:31:09 PM by Lennik

It would only take like what? Five minutes to explain everything? And for that matter, how on earth did Gendo know that Shinji would be perfectly willing to go with Rei-Q, that he would want to escape from WILLE due to a bomb collar being put on his neck, and that they would be able to succeed in the first place? And seriously, did they need to greet him waking up by pointing guns in his face and strapping a bomb collar on his neck without telling him why? Not even just a minute-long explanation? That's just begging for him to not listen to you guys.

For me, it's not so much me wallowing in grief so much as just exasperation at how poorly executed the whole thing felt, all for the sake of drama, and to hammer home the message that Anno wants to communicate, but at the expense of logic. I know I keep bringing up this comparison, but to me, the movie really does feel a lot like The Matrix Reloaded due to all of this, plus the fact that many scenes feel like little more than superfluous distractions, and all in all, it feels more like a teaser trailer for the next film. Which wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that the next movie has been delayed and postponed time and time again as Anno diverts attention away from his commitment to another series just because a friend convinced him to.

edited 28th Jan '16 6:08:46 PM by LDragon2

Because Shinji may not be even truly human anymore and because it is easier for them to make him a scapegoat since he did gave his back on the world when Zeruel arrived until he confronted what that would achieve and tried to save Rei

Although WILLE actions are certainly questionable, they also are fighting for all humanity, giving a damn about someone who is probably more of a danger by his mere existence is most likely not something they would do in the midst of a war. Something that I believe Shinji will also start to do at the beginning if at least to show how destructive that kind of mindset can be at the end.

Personally, 3,33's failing is that it centers to much on Shinji without giving enough time for any meaningful interaction between WILLE to happen, although they might be leaving that for 3,0 + 1,0.

Yeah, I do believe that the problem was that because it focused so much on Shinji, it made everyone else's development and personalities feel rather flat. While there were a few hints that they still care for him, they weren't enough to really balance it all out. Especially since, again, the world would have nearly ended if he didn't go back and fight upon seeing Rei get devoured by Zeruel due to his decision to not fight. Not to mention that, in the heat of the moment, I highly doubt one is gonna really care what happens to the world as opposed to what's directly in front of you; in this case, a close friend who you have the ability to save.

Again, I get the point they were going for, but I just feel it was poorly executed. And that it was also extremely one-sided in terms of viewpoint when it could have been far more balanced. Like say, Madoka Rebellion's ending.

And on another note, I wonder how his and Rei's relationship will be resolved, considering that he might not be human anymore?

edited 28th Jan '16 8:08:29 PM by LDragon2

I'll guess that she will be akin to a spirit advisor like Kaworu. Beyond that I don't think there would be anything since the only person who can truly help him is Asuka.

You mentioned Rebellion, which is kind of funny because Homura did the opposite of what Shinji did at Eo E.

I see Asuka as being sort of taking on the role that Misato had in Eo E, minus the whole dying in the first half. Heck, she seems likely to be the one who gives him the "so f***ing what if I'm not you" speech.

However, I don't see her and Shinji as ultimately ending up together, mainly because their relationship hasn't been nearly as well focused on as it was in the original, where it was one of the core tenants of the story. Here, those two have about as much chemistry as a wet towel, unless some really good writing is able to convince me otherwise. For now, it seems like they will be more likely to end it as a platonic relationship. Especially since Shinji and Rei's relationship has arguably usurped his one with Asuka as being one of the cores of the story this time around.

Though, I have to wonder if all the recent merchandising and marketing surrounding her is Anno's way of trying to get more people to gravitate towards her, as he sees her as being the best one for Shinji to be with, since that equals maturity or something. >_>

edited 28th Jan '16 10:50:30 PM by LDragon2

So this 3.0 is a whole new plot from the original TV series, right? Well, as a not-fan of Rebuild, I would like to know: does the plot pick up after Eo E? Because I was always curious as to what happened after the final scene.

It's not the same plot as the original. 3.0 is Rebuild's equivalent of EoE, the next movie will go beyond.

I think we had this conversation before, but to make things clear, Asuka would indeed be the one who represents maturity in contrast with Rei-Q. Asuka and Shinji's relationship is still important given that he literally went on a frenzy after Bardiel's attack.

You know, saying "I know I keep making unfit comparisons to The Matrix, BUT..." and then immediately doing just that doesn't really count as acknowledging the problem.

And all of your counterpoints about why they couldn't tell him anything are explained easily, and yet you just repeat them. They didn't have enough time to explain everything to him because of the aforementioned battle, number one.

Number two, it would be very easy for Gendo to anticipate him leaving with Rei, since Rei is right there and he started an Impact for her, and being unaware of the fact that she's a clone of his mom, he's not going to listen when they tell him it's not her. Because who would?

edited 29th Jan '16 7:41:51 AM by Lennik

Yeah. Probably killing his school buddy just made Shinji sad and self-hating. Probably killing Asuka made him go on a full destroy NERV rampage.

Also, I think people looking for actual romance in Eva are looking in the wrong place. These kids need each other, but they aren't stable enough to live with/for themselves nonetheless someone else. Trying to go beyond that is doomed to failure.

edited 29th Jan '16 8:06:14 AM by Zeromaeus

And this is what bugs me about Eva in America:

• Americans are so used to Giant Robot characters being "the hero".
  • This got it's start from Japan as it's Giant Robot cartoons came to the west in The '60s.

• In the west, two female characters and a guy means love triangle.

Evangelion turned that on it's head. Anno played with Anime tropes and existential tropes and cosmic horror tropes.

Tl;dr - none of these characters are in any position for a healthy relationship.

Pacific Rim is a Spiritual Successor to Eva but of course the Rei-expy and the male hero hook up. That's just how we like it over here (or how studio execs want it to be).

As for the "tone down" of the Shinji and Karow, maybe Anno's people just think that any "overtones" distract American audiences from the story?

edited 29th Jan '16 10:19:08 AM by TairaMai

Truthfully, I'm glad to hear that the others weren't all like Shut up Fucking Shinji!!!!

They were angry at him, but if they did try to explain things to him, that makes it a little better.

Though now, it seems like the story is making Shinji out to be even worse, with him running off, then nearly wrecking the world again.

He's still been placed in a pretty rough position, and he might have just blown any chance at getting people to trust him that he had before (and he might not have had that much).

So essentially, he's still completely fucked no matter what happens, along with the rest of the planet.

Del Toro hadn't even seen Evangelion before working on Pacific Rim.

Pretty much so far. Gendo has manipulated everything so that Shinji's only (apparent) shot at hapiness right now is going with Instrumentality. Of course, Shinji could simply start to act the complete opposite and be willing to be damned forever if it means mankind gets to live.

Del Toro directed it, the screenplay is by Travis Beacham and Del Toro. Hell, the Japanese dub of the movie uses a VA for Mako Mori that was the original Rei.

Guess Shinji will become a martyr.

And in regards to his relationship with Asuka, I'm still not sure that it'll go anywhere besides platonic. There are so many other things that the story needs to cover that trying to develop another relationship that wasn't given much focus here aside from a few scenes doesn't seem like a good call. Especially since it hasn't been a main focus like in the original series.

Plus, like others have said, none of the characters are currently in a position where a relationship would actually be healthy. To have him be with her just because of "maturity symbolism" would be a mistake.

edited 29th Jan '16 10:55:14 AM by LDragon2

I don't expect them to hook up on the spot, but to have a sincere and heartful conservation that may lead to that in the long run.

Kaworu's and Mari's advices are actually quite thoughtful since the war they are fighting can blind them to other things that they may need to reject Instrumentality when the time comes.

I don't know. They may imply something, but I doubt that it'll be anything concrete. Especially since again, it hasn't been a core of the story compared to his and Rei's relationship.

But no doubt he'll receive some sort of speech from her. I still think the "so f***in what if I'm not you" speech will be given by her to him. Or maybe, in an MGS 4 move, she even removes her eyepatch to show that he's not the only one who's changed into a not-quite human.

That said though, I still feel like his relationship with Rei should be given some attention and closure. After all, Rei II's absence was a huge part of the previous film, and why it felt so bleak, further making me feel like her and Shinji's connection is one of the biggest parts of this story. To drop it in favor of having him be with someone else doesn't sit right to me.

Rei II hasn't been "dropped." She had her development, and her arc is probably concluded. She'll probably make some sort of appearance in 3.0+1.0, but to claim she was "dropped" in favor of Shinji "being with" someone else implies they were ever meant to be a romantic couple in the first place.

I know right.

I mean, if Shinji got together with anyone else, he might actually be happy.

Clearly, this must be prevented at all costs.

Getting serious, I don't know what is planned, but I suppose we'll see.

...One of these days, I'm really gonna have to sit down and watch Evangelion. It's gonna be a depressing time, but still.

Have you not watched NGE yet? I suggest you marathon FLCL immediately after Eo E. Not necessarily immediately immediately, but, like, the next thing you watch and shortly afterwards. Then go straight into Eureka Seven for the full healing process. You'll need it.

Also, add Gurren Lagann to your therapy regimen. It'll go a long way.

Don't forget to watch the movies.

edited 29th Jan '16 7:00:13 PM by raziel365

I actually saw Eureka Seven years ago (back in the days when YTV aired anime).

I've seen Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann as well.

I may take you up on FLCL though.

That's if I ever watch Evangelion though. I know it'd to join a thread about a series I'm never going to fully watch (I did catch the very first episode), but...

Well, can you blame me? It can be some really depressing shit.

edited 29th Jan '16 7:10:58 PM by HandsomeRob