Warhammer 40,000

Three possibilities.

1. In-universe documents feuding over the exact nature of the Dark Gods.
2. Governing broad concepts; Nurgle might have despair in general, say, and both "fuck it, we're dead" and "go down stabbing" both fall under despair.
3. It's Chaos!

I imagine the latter is motivated by it being the only option, while the former has an end goal.

So Tzeentch is proactive and Nurgle is reactive.

Ninja'd my previous post for clarification.

Nurgle.

Because Tzeentch wants you to do it consciously (sort of), rather than spur of the moment.

Clearly, it is whoever is closest, because Chaos.

Seriously, every question about this game can be answered by "because Chaos", in the same way that "because Metal Gear Solid" answers any questions about those games.

Any hypothetical examples/modifications to my example?

Chaos still allows for "probabilities", though.

edited 28th Oct '12 1:36:35 PM by MarqFJA

You know, which god takes an interest would probably also be determined by what the person would do with a second chance.

I imagine that's also why Magnus the Red ended up falling to Tzeentch rather than Nurgle, despite his fall being a result of crossing the Despair Event Horizon.

So if the guy simply wanted to live — whether it's because "I'm too young to die!" or basic fear of death — then he is more likely to become Nurgle's; but if he wanted to live so he can fulfill a personal ambition (preferably of sufficient grandness), or at least to take cold vengeance at whoever had tried to kill him (or left him for dead), then he is more predisposed to Tzeentch. Did I get that right?

edited 28th Oct '12 4:10:05 PM by MarqFJA

Pretty much.

Incidentally, my favourite Chaos Champion was always vegetation Guy (Aekold Hellbrass?) from Fantasy. The idea of a champion of chaos that sprouts vegetation whenever he walks is just neat.

It was cool how he got an extended backstory in Liber Chaotica too. Tzeentch had some pretty cool champions in Fantasy. As for Magnus, I think the fact that he was a sorcerer and pursued forbidden knowledge also had something to do with choosing Tzeentch over Nurgle.

edited 28th Oct '12 5:58:47 PM by HouraiRabbit

Fertile Feet...actually kind of makes sense for Chaos, but...does this vegetation rot as it's growing or eat people or something?

Not canonically, but it would probably happen eventually.

Chaos isn't purely destructive, remember. It also has a creative aspect and there are good things that come out of it...they're just outnumbered by the hideous tentacle monsters and soul-rending maiming and torture daemons.

It would depend on which Chaos God they're aligned with. If it's Undivided-aligned, then it would have some sort of generic madness- and/or horror-inducing abominability to it, and almost definitely ultracarnivorous and/or hyperpoisonous.

I think the setting would be a lot more interesting and maybe even more grim if Chaos folks had the potential to be good. Because they would still be completely antithetical to the Imperium, and they would still be in a galaxy-wide all-or-nothing war against the rest of human civilization, they just wouldn't be cackling supervillains that deserve death by narrative fiat, you know?

You'll probably be wanting the Soul Drinkers. I always thought the idea of "oh look, we get all these awesome powers of evil (not that Chaos is inherently evil but)...but we're good!" to be a bit lame, but that's just my opinion. Serious mode now, I think attempting to use the powers of Chaos for good is the backstory of virtually every radical Inquisitor. I haven't read Eisenhorn but I remember someone explaining to me that there's this tragedy about him where he achieved fame by executing his mentor who had gone too far down the radicals' path and became a heretic and he was ultimately doomed to suffer the same fate himself.

edited 28th Oct '12 9:14:07 PM by HouraiRabbit

Then again the Inquisition can look at anything and call it "Heresy" if they can't explain it. Wasn't there one chapter that wasn't very susceptible to falling to Chaos, and the Inquisition declared them all heretics and sicked the Grey Knights on them?

That's, um, not exactly how the Soul Drinkers worked, at least not in the first three books.

1. Their conviction that their mutations were good or neutral lasted right up until the end of the first book, when there were like two solid pages dedicated to Sarpedon realising exactly how badly he'd been suckered.
2. Following Sarpedon's Heel Realisation at the end of the first book, they were using the "awesome power" of the mutations they already had and didn't have enough bionics to get rid of. They didn't go into the old Radical shenanigans of summoning daemons, practicing sorcery, or otherwise toying with Chaos, because they'd already tried that and it hadn't ended well for them. (Indeed, most of book two consisted of them trying to stop the ongoing mutation while they were still able to walk upright, handle bolters and engage in a rational conversation.)
3. Their efforts to use said mutations for good got them bled dry in multiple wars while being manipulated by an interesting variety of power-crazed maniacs.
4. And oh yeah, there was that nigh-unkillable Khornate psychopath they accidentally unleashed, that ended really well for them.

And if what I've read here and on Lexicanum is even remotely accurate, their further efforts ended up getting them killed to the last man.

So, Radical Inquisitors aren't really the best comparison point for the Soul Drinkers; that implies deliberately seeking out forbidden power, rather than getting shafted by it multiple times.

edited 28th Oct '12 9:33:25 PM by CountDorku

Yeah, I'm not thinking about "Oh man, we have all these awesome evil powers! Let's use them for good!" That is generally pretty eye-rolly when you see it in fanfic and stuff.

My notion wouldn't work in the context of Chaos as it's presented in 40K - we would need something more like "The Chaos Gods are abstract and impersonal and almost never take a direct interest in the affairs of mortals. Followers are all too often twisted by the horrors of a war-torn galaxy, the brutal oppression of the Imperium and their own desire for ever more power - it takes a special kind of person to risk the integrity of spacetime to gain the ability to shoot lightning from their nipples, after all. The daemons they summon/create are given twisted form by their cruel designs."

This would allow Chaos to range from heroes to assholes to genocidal monsters and give us a wider range of stories that can take place in the grim darkness of the far future. I would be especially partial to watching Imperial and Chaos commanders who are both generally noble heroes and could have become great friends in other circumstances instead brutally killing the crap out of each other and never finding out that they might have had common ground.

Hmm. Maybe I should be looking into Brighthammer.

Technically Chaos Gods are abstract and impersonal and almost ever take direct interest in mortal affairs (usually they're focused on fighting eachother). They might throw a random mutation to a champion that does something that pleases them, but you have to do something truly great to catch their attention and be elevated to daemonhood.

The problem is that Chaos feeds on certain emotions, and thus drives their followers to embrace those emotions to as extreme degree as possible. Sure, a Khorne worshipper may be a noble and chivalrous guy who only fights those he considers worthy, but Khorne doesn't care about concepts such as nobility or chivalry. He gets his power from rage, so all that matter to him is that you're really angry about something. Therefore his influence will slowly turn anybody who serves him into a raging berserker, as you being ALWAYS ANGRY ALL THE TIME! provides more power for Khorne than you being sometimes kinda pissed off at something.

Yeah, it's like in the Fire Warrior novel, where it's heavily implied that the protagonist attracted Khorne's interest and he helped him survive the events of the story.

It's also in the backstory of the Dark Vengeance baddie according to White Dwarf: After he killed Chaos cultists, Khorne cursed him "to punish him (or reward him)".

Friend or foe, all Khorne cares for is that you're a great warrior.

Why doesn't he support more of the Imperium's Space Marines, then?

Maybe he's picky? Or maybe the CSM are more angry and thus more interesting.

edited 29th Oct '12 8:53:34 AM by Medinoc