El Goonish Shive

The emotional dark side is what leads for contempt for human life. It's a Path of Darkness story, straight up.

It's the sort of scenarios one might see in a Groundhog Day loop.

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My frustration isn't in expression of doubt, but in subjectivity. It's in expression of the other person's point of view as valid.

(Such frustrations on my part can perhaps be exacerbated on those occasions when, from my perspective, the thread becomes in general somewhat negative towards the comic, which I find can result in my becoming defensive of it.)

That said, at this point there's little more to argue over, I feel: your responses in this discussion have assured me that you do see these points one which we've been disagreeing as subjective.

Indeed, since no-one else seems to be bothered by this, it's very possible that this is just a clash of our particular styles of communication.

(And for what it's worth, looking back, it's quite possible that I've been poor at expressing this subjectivity myself, which may well have contributed to this issue; if so, then I apologise.)

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Wait, no, not done expounding on the topic.

There's a bunch more naïveté on the subject, but given the age of the characters in question, I can understand that. I imagine Ashley is going to be in for a rude awakening one day (perhaps in college), though.

On one hand, Shive's hammering this point down a bit too hard. On the other, my brain actually has put together about a half-dozen ways he could have done it harder, so I'm not sure whether to be frustrated or relieved that we have another strip based on an Author Filibuster that could have been even less subtle.

That said, the last panel is interesting. First, let the shippers get their "Aww"s or "Dammit"s (depending on their current ships) out of the way. That out of the way, the differing stances on physicality and closeness are interesting to observe in reactions. Ashley is obviously way more willing to be physically demonstrative than Elliot. And Elliot isn't sure how to actually process this.

Now, on one hand, it could just be that Ashley has a lower bar for emotional closeness required before engaging in physical affection (we all know that one friend who's ready to hug everyone, and that other one who has to be convinced to even shake hands). However, it could also be that Ashley's already formed a tighter emotional connection to Elliot than he has towards her - whether it be by him showing understanding for her difficulties, her feeling close to him based on what she's seen of his web show, Ashley just forming emotional bonds more quickly, or something else. This isn't an insurmountable obstacle by any means, but it is something that they'd be wise to address.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

Depending on how Elliot reacts, the suddenness of the hug will either help him to come out of his shell a little bit, or reinforce the idea that Ashley's not any more compatible with him than Sarah was.

Hereafter referred to as Grace and Susan.

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Believe it or not, I actually hadn't thought of the canon characters that would fit for uber-huggy and touch-adverse. That said, yes, like Grace and Susan.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

Also NP is up too

Aww, maaaan... so if I wanna see accurate anatomy, I have to skin the people by hand? Thanks for the useless spell, Pandora.

Kidding aside, you could probably devise some interesting tests in order to train yourself out of preconceptions. Give your friends a deck of playing cards, have them place them in various spots around the house and then lock the doors. Have them tell you stuff about the cards that is mostly true, but with a few lies mixed in, to give you preconceptions. Use the spell to walk through the walls, and maybe mess with a few other things, then look at the cards. Then check how the real thing compares. Repeat until you're not affected by your friends' advice. You'd need to do more than one kind of test, obviously, and it would never be foolproof, but she could certainly hone her accuracy, I think.

Also wondering: if Sarah borrows a body and uses one of that person's spells, does that count as a distortion? I mean, magic itself is kind of a distortion of the laws of physics, so is there a difference between flying as Sarah and flying as Nanase's fairy doll?

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The last panel makes me want Pandora to mentor Sarah on a quasi-permanent basis rather than this just being a one-time visit.

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What do you mean?

Someone needs to take Shive aside and give him a nice long talk on the meaning of the word "subtlety".

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

Look man, if he's been writing for 13 years and still doesn't get it then he never will.

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Unless you have preconceived notions about how people look with their skin off, I think you would be able to get away with a finger snap.

Writer, or something. And... a button? 🖲️

Most people do have preconceived notions of how someone looks with their skin off. It can be anywhere from as finely detailed as a Saw movie to a cartoonish red splotch from Tom and Jerry, but most of us have some idea somewhere in our minds of what that should look like.

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Pink?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.

... That escalated quickly.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

Regarding the main-comic page:

Indeed, I think that this covers Elliot's reactions to most intimacy outside of the familial or friendly.

One way or another, the next page should be interesting...

... Presuming that we don't jump directly back to the investigation, of course.

(I—unsurprisingly, I imagine—am hoping for Tobias's first option: that Elliot will respond positively—and hopefully in kind—to this hug.)

Regarding the NP page:
Aha, we now have indisputable proof that Pandora is related to Tedd! :P

(Of course, this would also seem to imply that Sarah is related to Tedd...)

edited 28th Apr '15 3:53:19 PM by ArsThaumaturgis

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No discussion of labels or the word "cute;" my prayers have been answered.

First, kudos for Nanase for pointing out something that I've had to frequently point out in group work - everyone brings different viewpoints to analysis, and you do need to get input from the people less inclined to mull over a situation. I don't know how many times I've seen someone go "Oh, I'm not smart enough to figure this out," then end up blurting out either the answer or the way to find the answer without thinking.

Second, I'd ask just how loud Ellen eats, but she's not exactly one to stand on ceremony.

Third, as a background element, I'm amused to note that Nanase, Big Eater that she is, appears to already be finished (based on the fact that it looks like her napkin has crumbs on it).

Finally, for the cloaked figure itself... well, admittedly, the idea that it was Pandora always seemed a bit odd to me, given that it looks almost animalistic. Not only that, but it's a bit naive to assume that there's only one mysterious vanishing figure in the Moperville area (just how many have Ellen and Nanase encountered, not including the fakes they found as Meddling Teenagers?).

I'm still banking on it being a new entity not connected to Pandora, but we'll see.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

Pandora is totally not lying here *cough*

Totally not lying.

Really.

She's a truthful immortal.

Apocalypse: Dirge Of Swans.

Seems legit.

Sarah has been mucking about with transformation beams and watch shaped wands for months now. Makes sense that she would have built a little magimuscle by now. Jerry was on his way out, and Pandora has been doing the Immortal schtick longer than anyone currently around.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

Well, it's already been established that the longer one goes without a reset, the more powerful they get. Even at his peak Jerry probably wouldn't stand a chance against Pandora.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)

I don't think she's built much magimuscle at all. I expect where Pandora is going with this isn't that Sarah's potential has grown, but that all that latent magic in Moperville that we've been hearing about is making up the difference.

She wouldn't be able to cast this spell out of town.

But, as noted, seems legit. As yet, there's no reason to distrust anything Pandora has said other than "Well, she's the villain, right?" and even that doesn't fly because she's Pandora.

edited 29th Apr '15 1:12:14 PM by TobiasDrake

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Regarding the Mysterious Cloaked Figure(s), one (somewhat arbitrary) thought that occurs to me is that they may be summons, working under the direction of some magic-user.

Regarding the page itself, I may be a little frustrated that it was, in fact, a change of scene, but I did nevertheless find it to be an enjoyable change of scene, in particular Ellen's "achievement in ignorance".

... ( And Ellen's oblivious nomming is cute. >_>)

Regarding Sarah's affinity for her sort of spell, it's a bit of a leap, but perhaps she's related to Agent Cranium?

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They look similar, but that doesn't mean much. They could be cousins or something. Have they actually met yet? I don't think so, Sarah is usually offscreen for the magic arcs.

As I said, it's a bit of a leap. Still, there's a certain economy to it: Cranium has a passing resemblance to Sarah, is a prime candidate for the person that Pandora mention as having been pressed into service due to the same power, and we've been told that Sarah's affinity for this power is familial.

There's plenty of tenuously-rooted speculation in there, of course—indeed, I should perhaps have added a "WMG" icon to my mention of this in my post above.

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The pieces fit, it's just not entirely clear they produce the correct picture.

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