Doctor Who

It's not like people want to go on the internet and complain about it (or at least I don't), I'd much rather critically enjoy a thing than have its problems niggle at the back of my head.

I don't think I really have much to say about this one that hasn't been said already. The ghosts and the Fisher King were as scary as intended., the guest cast was excellent (especially Cass) and the stuff with Clara's concern over the Doctor was great, but I didn't like the use of Pair the Spares and Stuffed into the Fridge.

I think overall I like this story, but it has a bunch of problems.

Thats pretty much my thoughts its sadly a weak follow up after a great first part...problem new who has a lot sadly

Why shouldn't she? I mean, moon explodes, big space bat comes out. Bit hard to miss. Unless you're Donna Noble.

Also yeah, the episode was a bit of a letdown from its first part. Honestly I knew O'Donnell was dead the moment she said her first line to the Doctor in "Under The Lake." Doctor Who fan analogues always die. The sudden romance and fridge-based death, however, caught me off guard.

On the bright side the Fisher King had a rad design. Also apparently it was him getting swept away by water in the series trailers and not, as I expected, a Zygon in bad lighting.

I actually liked the episode quite a lot. Not as much as the first two but those had Michelle Gomez so are not in the same sport, let alone the same league. I didn't like the fridging of O'Donnell, at all, and I'm going to make no excuses for that for Whithouse. Her character was quite nice, and I understood why she knew so much about the Doctor - she was military intelligence from decades after the events of Saxon - so she probably would have to be completely idiotic NOT to know that much. The Fisher King's design and voice acting was pretty good, the solutions to the problems of the episode were logical - any quibbles can be answered with "wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey" and leave it at that.

I agree pretty much with the thrust of Hussar's post, and that's all I'm going to say about the episode.

The Fisher King was voiced by Peter Serafinowcz, who voiced Darth Maul in Phantom Menace. While he only had a couple of lines in that movie, he did a great job with Evil Sounds Deep and did a great job with the Fisher King as well.

I'll agree with that. I thought the acting was pretty good overall, actually.

...Wait, if Cass thought something was behind her, why didn't she just turn around? I mentioned Toph, but she isn't Toph - she can still see.

Hmm, yeah, I don't think this was a high point. Still, looking forward to next week.

Here's why I don't think that the 4th wall breaking explanation was needed. The concept is one that's simple enough that you see it in Harry Potter. It's far from something only geeks understand, and it can be explained to those who don't know it without breaking the 4th wall.

Cass didn't think someone was behind her, she thought that the deck vibration was different, so she touched it with bare skin to get a better feel, which made her realise someone was close.

Sophie Stone had a lot of input into that particular scene.

I didn't need it, but I thought it was fun, and it informed my expectation of how things would play out in an interesting misdirection. I'm not sure I would have gotten the idea that the Fisher King's plan was inspired by the Doctor getting involved and telling him what's already happened without it.

The problem with having two-part episodes that are so different from each other is that most people will love one and hate the other. I've been enjoying each episode on their own merits. I felt this one was stronger than last week's, but I just love crinkly time travel paradoxes. And sure, it was done more audaciously and elegantly in The Big Bang. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy this one too. I like that the paradox was used to create crisis rather than cheat out of it.

If I wrote Doctor Who it would just be the Doctor breaking the fourth wall, talking about paradoxes, and playing the guitar.

So I actually want to thank Whithouse for reminding me why I would be a terrible writer for Doctor Who.

When all of history collapsed into a singularity in TWORS, I was pretty sure the only place the show could go from there was to have the Fourth Wall disintegrate.

This season is all two-parters except for one pair of standalones, right? I'd kind of prefer to end a season of two-parters with a three-parter than one more double.

I think The Girl Who Died (episode 5) and The Woman Who Lived (episode 6) will only be a two-parter in the same way A Good Man Goes To War and Let's Kill Hitler are a two-parter. Kind of, but not really.

Episodes 9 and 10 are completely standalone, though.

Am I just dumb for liking this episode? Usually when people are super critical of an episode, I can be like, yeah, that makes total sense. But I don't... get it.

Like, all the criticisms are the exact same criticisms I had, but the conclusion I arrived at with those criticisms feels wrong now.

People liked the episode.

I think Bennett was wrong to do what he did at the end, but he's grief stricken I can excuse him that. Hopefully Cass and Lunn will be okay. Aside from that good ep.

There's nothing wrong with liking the episode. People have expressed fondness for far worse episodes. I don't think most people are saying it's dreadful necessarily. It's just kind of boring.

edited 11th Oct '15 11:52:46 AM by Kostya

Clearly people are bored by different things. This ep went really fast for me.

Wait, Sophie Stone had input on that particular scene? If so, then okay, I think I'm alright with it then.

I didn't hate it. Not my favorite, but I still found things to like about it. Certainly, there's no reason to begrudge others for liking it.

If people liked it that's fine! Really!

I mean, there are parts of it that I liked.

I never would have thought to make a skull faced monster with a vagina for a mouth but now it seems obvious.

I mean, Giger kinda did it first, but. Doctor Who doesn't quite do Giger.

I loved Clara's scenes and the 4th wall breaking. Even if it admittedly felt too obvious.

I liked the flood scene. I don't normally comment on special effects, but. The on-rushing wave of water was cool.

Reading her twitter it seems like Sophie Stone had a fair amount of creative input. Like Lunn not being a trained interpreter was come up with between the two actors and a pretty smart move given that people would inevitably dissect how professional he was (He's got a deaf parent, for the record)

Which is kinda sensible. If you're writing a deaf character and have an actor who was deaf from birth, you're going to want their input.

As for the axe scene, here's a comment about it.

Edit: We should probably remove Disability Superpower from the recap page. If she'd picked up on something more subtle I could see if but something loud in the same room is not a superpower.

edited 11th Oct '15 12:46:53 PM by Michael

I really liked the episode, and I don't really agree with certain criticisms of the episode but hey ho. Cass's Aura Vision moment with the axe was a good idea but I didn't like how it was done, I think there must have been a better way to show that she felt the vibrations. Personally I don't think the cass/lunn thing was shoehorned in at all and was really happy when they kissed, but I accept that the chemistry could have been made a bit more obvious.

I'm fine with the chemistry. I just have ethical issues with dating someone who relies on you to that degree.

Yeah, that's ths thing. The chemistry was there, certainly, but it didn't HAVE to end in romance. Cass could have decided she wanted to be friends with Lunn, or Lunn could have told Bennet he was way off base.

Chemistry doesn't have to automatically mean two characters are in love (really close friends have a lot of chemistry) and I'm irritated that it only does when those two characters are different genders.

There's also Clara telling the Doctor that "if you love me in any way" so either Whithouse is aware that the ending didn't have to be that way and did it anyway like a fucking chump or that line was originally pretty bad and got rewritten.

A lot of writers seem to think that love has to end with the insertion of tab A into slot B. Which does make it refreshing when it doesn't play out that way.