The Order of the Stick

Roy doesn't care because it doesn't really affect his understanding of who V is. V is a powerful wizard who is merciless to his/her enemies. At one pont, V got a bit too merciless and killed some innocents by accident. That's the way Roy interpreted the story, and the fact that V seems to regret killing innocents (by accident) is enough for Roy to classify V as "still good enough".

The scale of the "accident" is too big for an individual to truly wrap their minds around (A Million Is a Statistic), so that has no impact on Roy's beliefs at all.

I also think part of it, is coupled with A Million Is a Statistic, Roy can't really "see" any of the damage that V had done (I think we are to infer that Roy about the Draketooths and he maybe knows that Tarquin's wife suddenly died, but that's it). He can't see the tens of thousands of deaths across the continent.

So, as bad as it sounds, it's harder for him to care than it would be if he saw Belkar kill some random innocent.

One reason I bring up Belkar is that I think there's some outright hypocrisy. Roy hates Belkar (not without cause), and so everything Belkar does (whether good or bad) is understood by Roy as confirmation of Belkar being irredeemably evil. In contrast, Roy likes the other party members, and so is more willing to cut them some slack when reacting to shady behavior by them (sometimes too much slack- see Durkula).

edited 30th Aug '15 11:30:32 AM by Hodor2

No, it'd be pretty petty. Roy is V's employer. Refusing to talk to him isn't just like when one of your buddies upsets you and so you ignore them for a week; he's an important part of Roy's organization, and Roy would be hindering the Order's ability to perform their task by refusing to talk to V. He would be cutting off his nose to spite his face, which is petty and childish.

As an employer, one can just not hire a mass murderer or fire them when the truth comes out. One can seek legal retribution for the mass murderer's actions. One can continue employing them if necessary. But going, "Hey Bob, go tell Frank to serve table 6; I'm still not speaking to him!" is terrible leadership and managerial behavior.

edited 30th Aug '15 11:31:05 AM by TobiasDrake

"Belkar was right... and I think I knew he was right all along."

They can't hear the mortals. They can see them. Or what is Hel, Loki and the other one looking at?

Another thought- I think short of executing V himself once the world's saved (which maybe would be a morally right thing to do) there's not really an aparatus to punish V:

There's no one left alive with any relation to the Black Dragon (kind of the point) and so Roy couldn't turn V over to any of them- and that wouldn't really be a Lawful Good thing to do anyway

And the most appropriate legal apparatus for trying V would be in the Empire of Blood- And Roy is not likely to give much credence to them as a fair decider of guilt or innocence.

Which adds a new context to what Hel could be smiling about.

HEL: LOL, I don't know whose bodyguard that asshole is, but he's about to get dogpiled by Godsmoot laws if he thinks he can attack my Cleric.

As I've said before, V's crimes fall under the umbrella of A Million Is a Statistic. It's hard to even imagine as many people as he is responsible for killing, which makes it difficult for Roy to get emotionally charged about it.

Eddie Izzard has a great bit on this exact matter.

I'll be honest, I haven't liked V any less since the familicide debacle. It doesn't affect my appreciation for the character.

I agree that Roy probably can't totally wrap his head around what V did. He seemed to more or less say the same thing himself.

There's too much going on, and nothing he can do right then and there. At best he knows it's an issue for the future (not just because if both him and V are alive after all this, they'll have to do decide something) but because he knows there will be at least two more times when V will be taken out of the fight , possibly when they need him, but with everything going on right at this moment, there's nothing he can do about V.

Edit: So I went back to the actual strip and yeah, Roy says he can't even fathom it, and he wouldn't even know who to turn V over to in a legal sense.

But he's also willing to give him a chance since he's taking responsibility for it.

edited 30th Aug '15 1:49:19 PM by HandsomeRob

Here's the thing: think back to the aftermath of the Azure City arc. Think of how fallout in the party. Roy was dead. V was on a downward spiral. Belkar was left in a position where he essentially had to be babysat. Everything was in chaos.

Compare this to the in-party fallout after the Gerard's Gate arc: Durkon, the least interesting member of the party, has been surreptitiously replaced with a vampire mole. That's it.

It's not that "Roy should do this" or "Roy should do that." It's that "Roy hasn't been an engaging character since he stopped being dead and this is not compelling me to care about anything that's happening in the party." Him being "petty" or "childish" would be an improvement because at least there would be some sort of inter-party conflict to make things interesting. Because for me, a blase non-reaction of "I'm just going to shrug my shoulders and continue business as usual as though nothing happened" is boring.

I'm not interested in what's smartest for Roy to do as a leader. I'm interested in what would make for a compelling story.

edited 30th Aug '15 2:50:40 PM by Pannic

Pretty sure the aftermath of the Azure City arc was supposed to be the party's Darkest Hour. Trying to match that—by having the party's interpersonal conflict just as bad as that—would make the comic's pacing even more wonky than it already is.

edited 30th Aug '15 2:43:02 PM by MetaFour

Have you missed the "Roy is totally in denial" stuff that's crucial to the arc.

Yeah. It's kind of the point that Roy has been refusing to admit anything is wrong. Since Roy's resurrection, a lot of the general idea is about how the party have developed into better people and work better as a team, and but I think stuff like the Girard illusion and all the stuff with Durkula is showing that there's also an element of Roy not really wanting to see the bad stuff.

And maybe I'll be wrong, but I think that besides what is going on right now at the Godsmoot, Durkula is going to succeed in hurting a lot of people- perhaps in Durkon's home village.

I know this doesn't really address V though. But I think you are going to be disappointed if you want Roy to hate V.

Roy reacting with glee because he has a burning hatred of black dragons and thinks V's wonderful for ridding the world of a bunch of them would be an improvement, because it would be a reaction. As in it would be something, as opposed to nothing.

I mean, no intra-party conflict? Don't know where you're getting that.

I am pretty sure there were people calling Roy too perfectly stable and rational team leader compared to how flawed the rest of the order is. Here it is: his flaw.

Ok, I found the strip where V confesses to Roy. I wouldn't say Roy has no reaction. He goes between angry and unable to comprehend, but the overall idea is that since there's really nothing he can do about it and sees that V is wracked with guilt, the only thing he can do is allow V to try to make things better by being part of the team.

And, as I mentioned earlier, the subject of the conversation doesn't even have his full attention, as evidenced by the joke at the end of the entry, which I feel also completely deflates the scene.

I don't think it's quite fair to say the conversation doesn't have his full attention. At least in the sense that Roy is indifferent.

At this point, Roy is dealing with Durkon being killed and coming back as a vampire, having just destroyed a Gate, and knowing that he still has to deal with Xykon, etc.

He's not really in a position where he wants to deal with this. I mean the strip itself actually shows V wanting Roy to be furious or provide moral counsel and Roy not giving it.

I think the Durkon situation really explains a lot (note Roy's reference to Durkon having been a source of moral guidance and no longer providing that). It's such a huge emotional blow for Roy that not only is he in denial over it, but he also can't really process anything else that's serious (particularly in terms of another team member being untrustworthy).

Those are some interesting points, though I find it a bit iffy. Maybe it's just because I don't really have a real-world reference point that comes to mind, but I don't really see why Durkon being a vampire would take a larger spot in his mind. As far as he knows at that point, a lot worse could've happened to him. A Million Is a Statistic is one thing, but a big part of that is a sense of emotional distance. It's not just that too many people died to process, it's that those people died halfway across the world. Roy, on the other hand, saw a hell of a lot of bodies.

After reading the 1000th update the thought just occurred to me is this: Roy doesn't care what you do unless you personally offend or slight him. That's why he's jumping over the railing to kill "Durkon"; because he betrayed his trust. But apart from that? He doesn't care. If you're an idiot who's a liability to the party, or if you have a secret agenda that you prioritize over the goals of the party, or if you're a murderous sociopath, or if you're another murderous sociopath, Roy doesn't really care beyond the occasional expression of annoyance. Sure, Roy isn't going to disagree that Xykon is a threat to the world that needs to be stopped for the good of everyone, but the part that really cheeses him is that Xykon doesn't take him seriously enough to remember his name. Or how the only time he's ever gone "fuck you, get lost" to a party member was with Miko Miyazaki, which had less to do with anything she did than it did to how he found her attitude grating. Now, provided that this is an intentional character flaw that's going to be developed, it's actually pretty interesting.

Also, I reject the notion that Roy having an adverse reaction to ethnic cleansing is something that would be "petty" or "childish." It strikes me as more... the normal reaction that a normal person would have.

edited 30th Aug '15 4:56:19 PM by Pannic

Punishing V for ethnic cleansing by executing him, or kicking him out of the party, would arguably be a reasonable reaction. Keeping V in the party while refusing to speak to him would be petty and childish.

Having an adverse reaction isn't petty. Having that reaction come in the form of something as immature and childish as, "Belkar, would you PLEASE ask V to prepare this spell tomorrow because I am still not speaking to her!" is petty. That is how children express their anger.

edited 30th Aug '15 4:41:34 PM by TobiasDrake

Not talking to someone because they made you angry is reasonable, at least in the short term. The childish part comes from telling everyone that you're not speaking to that person because they made you angry.

Not in a work environment, it's not.

Especially if you're the boss.