Avatar: The Last Airbender

I don't have a problem with the existence of energybending. I have a problem with Aang learning it from a lion-turtle (for... still not wanting to kill Ozai?) instead of doing something to earn it. That's what made it feel like a cop-out.

Having spent the entire episode setting up that Ozai's death is necessary even if Aang doesn't like it so suck it up you little bastard, they arbitrarily handed him a solution to all of his problems on a silver platter with literally zero build-up.

Also, that tumblr post is full of shit. (shocker)

edited 26th Oct '14 10:27:05 AM by Eagal

Actually, I feel like that post seems fair enough.

One thing I've observed before. The Avatar people's approach to foreshadowing is hit and miss.

Even accepting that all that horse piss counts as foreshadowing, they couldn't have taken the time to make it unambiguous? They did it with metalbending. Episode 6, season 1. Guy says unless you can bend metal you're never getting out of this prison!

They couldn't have taken a few seconds in there somewhere to have Sokka say "If only there were a way to permanently remove someone's bending"?

Can't be hard to find the time. Like half the season is filler. Cut The Great Divide. No one would miss it.

Why shove "Hey this one technique that this one character is going to use is totally a thing!" down our throats and then dance around this OTHER technique that this OTHER character is going to use.

edited 26th Oct '14 10:49:38 AM by Eagal

Ty Lee's ability and Aang getting the Avatar State blocked off wasn't enough for you? Whether or not Energybending was handled masterfully, I'd rather not have a hand-holding explanation for every foreshadowed thing.

Before the Foggy Swamp tribe, would you have liked someone to go "Oh, this tree is in the way. If only we could plant-bend and move it."

Striking a specific series of pressure points vs hand on face, no more bending. Apples vs oranges.

Not sure what you mean by Aang getting Avatar State. He didn't energybend it into himself.

You mean when he fought Ozai and his back struck an absurdly convenient rock in just the right spot and he magically gained full control over Avatar State even though it was explicitly stated that the only way he could do that is if he gave up all of his earthly attachments? Going to have to call bullshit on that.

These are not unambiguous if they can provoke debate. Episode 6 was unambiguous. Farting light is not.

edited 26th Oct '14 11:08:21 AM by Eagal

They couldn't have taken a few seconds in there somewhere to have Sokka say "If only there were a way to permanently remove someone's bending"?

They actually did do something like that with Aang's gluebending joke in The Phoenix King ("Maybe I can gluebend his arms and legs together so he can't bend anymore" or something like that).

But, again, that's not the problem. The problem is that energybending felt like giving Aang an easy way out rather than something he earned through his own efforts.

The lion-turtle was foreshadowed a bit. I think someone pointed out that it there was a bunch of lion-turtles all over all over some architecture in certain important places.

My problem isn't that there wasn't foreshadowing. There was a lot of foreshadowing so I do believe Bryke when they say they had energybending planned from the beginning. My issue is that the foreshadowing wasn't obvious enough. I would have done the following:

1. During the season 1 finale have someone comment on how terrifying the prospect of removing bending is and then idly wish they could do that to the Fire Nation. Come season 2 people will just think this was foreshadowing for the Day of Black Sun when in actuality there's more to it.

2. During the Library episode Aang points out something about a Lion Turtle in an old book. I'd change it to add him reading a passage saying something to the effect of "It is said that the Lion Turtles could control the spiritual energy of living things."

3. When they're discussing the Day of Black Sun invasion have Sokka say it would be more convenient if they could disable the firebender's whenever they want but the eclipse is forcing them to work in a very small timeframe.

4. This last one could be done either during the Boiling Rock or The Puppetmaster. Basically all it requires is that someone comments on how hard it is keeping benders in a prison and that they wish they could just take their bending away.

I like the energybending twist. I just think they should have hinted at it more so it didn't come off as a Deus ex Machina.

I've a book which has a section called how NOT to end a series which I think is relevant here. Mainly because the Energybending and Lion Turtle stuff have some vibes to it. With it talking about Deus Ex Machinas, well, I'll quote it.

1. It robs cohesiveness by introducing a new element at the eleventh hour. To reach full potential, every piece of your story must be part of a consistent whole.

Energybending was a new element in the eleventh hour for the most part. If we work with the foreshadowing setup, again, it was far too subtle. Same with the Lion Turtle.

2. It frustrates readers by taking the power out of the characters’ hands. Readers want to see the characters put under excruciating pressure, so they can then observe their reactions and, presumably, their tenacity, skill, and courage in escaping and triumphing. When the damsel tied to the railway tracks is saved at the last minute by a handsome stranger, the heroine herself becomes a non-factor.

3. It endangers suspension of disbelief through unlikely coincidences. Miracles may happen in real life, but in fiction they tend to make readers scoff. When your characters escape their mafia debts by winning the lottery or by being adopted by a little old lady millionaire, the result is both unsatisfying and difficult to believe.

I think this one is the biggest problem here. Aang managed to pull it off less because of all his work up until that point and more because of a couple of miracles. His own competence and skill can't be forgotten, but what gave him the edge were coincidences.

4. It cheats readers by eliminating proper foreshadowing. In order to achieve resonance, stories need to provide all the puzzle pieces to readers before they reach the Climax. The foreshadowing found in the character’s previous struggles will lead us up to the moment when he uses the lessons learned in those struggles to overcome this ultimate challenge. When he suddenly develops magical powers at the last moment, his escape from danger won’t be satisfying because it’s too different from the one readers expected.

Again, iffy if the foreshadowing was proper or not.

5. It disappoints readers by removing characters from danger too soon. After waiting for 300 pages to reach the Climax, readers want to see the characters sweat. They want to see them pushed to the very brink of their physical, mental, and moral endurance— and then rise up from their own ashes to conquer both inner and outer demons. When the avenging angel swoops in to save the characters, the result is anticlimactic. Instead of thrilling readers, your ending will have them heaving your book across the room.

Eh, those seem too leading. At the very least, I don't think you could write it exactly the way you have it there.

I don't think 5 applies here. The fight is still very climatic, and I don't think the energybending detracts from that one bit. Same with 2, really. I would not say that anything was taken out of Aang's hands.

Whether or not it was properly foreshadowed, I think it works on a thematic level, as well as a mythic level of sorts.

Oh, and don't tell me what I want to see.

edited 27th Oct '14 2:33:38 AM by KarkatTheDalek

forwshowing the lion turtle is one thing, foreshadowing them the capacy of bending IS another one, even more since it clash with previous myths(dragons,moles,flying bisons and the moon) about it and the fact that Wans came after Anags journey ends

If you're talking about Wan's story, it doesn't contradict anything. Wan is shown learning from a dragon, so the implication is clearly that the dragon is helping him refine his firebending.

This makes sense to me - it shows where the ability to bend came from, which I thought that "learning from the badgermoles" didn't quite explain. Like I said, they helped refine the ability to bend, making bending what it is today.

Really, if Wan's story had been in The Last Airbender, then I doubt anyone would have complained.

edited 27th Oct '14 2:40:31 AM by KarkatTheDalek

I realise I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't understand the idea that things need to be foreshadowed. I don't think writers owe it to us to make it so that we can guess what's going to happen before it does - who would want to read a story where it's painfully obvious exactly how things are going to turn out? Isn't surprising us part of their job? People often talk about unforeshadowed things as if they in some way violate logic but that's not the case. Real life doesn't depend on Checkhov's tropes where every solution was set up long before, so I don't see why fiction should. If you want to argue that Energy Bending doesn't fit with the established rules of the universe - which I think it does, but no matter - that's another thing, but "not foreshadowed" ≠ "poorly written".

True, but without foreshadowing plot twists can come off as the writers couldn't come up with any solutions that adhere to the internal logic of the show so they just made shit up.

"Wait, Aang can't kill the Fire Lord, but the Fire Lord must be neutralised. And the protagonist really needs to be the one to win the show... what if he learns how to take away bending! From a giant turtle! BEST WRITERS EVER."

edited 27th Oct '14 6:05:41 AM by oppyu

I don't see why not. I don't think it violates the internal logic just because it hadn't happened yet, or even been explicitly established that it could happen - it made sense to me that bending, imposing one's will on the world, had to be underpinned by mastery of willpower itself. But as I say, I know not everyone was happy with the explanations given. What I was really getting at was the distinction between not making sense and not being foreshadowed. I don't think "they gave no indication this was going to happen!" is a valid criticism because that doesn't make what happens illogical.

edited 27th Oct '14 7:01:55 AM by attercop

Karkat: I'd prefer the twist being too obvious to it coming out of nowhere. While it's true the show established there were certain spiritual abilities not tied to the four bending arts the idea that one could take away bending was never even hinted at. Maybe they don't need to do everything I said but I would have preferred it if they had Aang intentionally seek out the Lion Turtle rather than having it come to him.

Real life can be random, pointless, and implausible. Fiction is supposed to be above that. That's why the writer's job is harder than God's.

Satisfactory narrative structure can come at the expense of realism. It depends what you want to be prioritised in a story.

Excuse me for not parsing words here, but while I'd rather not have something come up at the literal last minute, I'd also rather not be hit over the head with obviousness.

Maybe had we gotten Wan's flashback while Aang was in that coma, things would've been fine.

"Real life can be random, pointless, and implausible. Fiction is supposed to be above that. That's why the writer's job is harder than God's."

What does that even mean? Who says Fiction is supposed to be 'above that'

While I don't care about the "God" part, the difference is that fiction has to make more sense as a whole because it is the product of a narrative. If you don't make it make sense to people, they're more likely to feel cheated. The grand exception for when it's insane when it's intentionally meant to be. If you really want to get away with it, do it with something that's smaller stakes and preferably played for laughs.

In real life, there is no such thing as a Deus ex Machina, or a Diabolus ex Machina for that matter. It would have been perfectly realistic for Ozai to have died of a heart attack before he could start razing the world, or for Aang to choke to death on a fishbone a week out of hibernation. Heart attacks and choking on fishbones are things that happen to people in real life. But it would have been narratively unsatisfying. We as viewers expect something better than a string of events with no real payoff to them. We expect story arcs and character arcs and themes. This is why tropes like, say, They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot and They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character exist. It's perfectly realistic for things and people near you to be more interesting than what you're actually engaged in. A few days ago, for instance, while I was doing homework some disgruntled student was kicking in windows until a couple of janitors ran him down and tackled him so he could be arrested. That's cooler and more dramatic than my homework, but it doesn't make sense for me to complain that I only heard about it afterwards and was busy with homework at the time, because that's just how real life works. But in fiction it would make no sense to focus on my homework instead of the guy getting tackled by janitors.

Granted, it's perfectly possible to have a story about how the real world is random, pointless, and implausible, but that's not the kind of story Avatar is. It's the kind of story where Katara gets to have a confrontation with her mother's murderer and Zuko with his evil sister, because those are important for their character arcs. It would have been equally realistic for Katara to never learn who her mother's murderer was until after the action was over, leaving it an unresolved plot thread, or for Azula to be taken out from behind by some random mook with a bow, but it wouldn't have been as narratively satisfying.

And it would have been possible for Zuko to never find out what happened to his mother!

All jokes aside, that does sum it up well there IMO.

edited 27th Oct '14 7:54:09 PM by Prime_of_Perfection

And it could be possible not to find out the final fate of Sokka's love life!