Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / TheStranger

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Meursault a hero, a SociopathicHero, or a VillainProtagonist? Or is he just some random guy who shot another random guy for no real reason at all?

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Meursault a hero, a SociopathicHero, or a VillainProtagonist? Or is he just some random guy who shot another random guy for no real reason at all?all, and to what extent does that put him into one of these categories?



* StrawmanHasAPoint: However much the ValuesDissonance of the society of the time, and absurdism of the plot dancing around this fact, there is no escaping that Meursault is a man indifferent to human life who killed a person for literally no reason at all and could do so again at any time without thought of consequence. In the face of these facts it is hard to argue that he is not a danger to others.

to:

* StrawmanHasAPoint: However much the ValuesDissonance of the society of the time, and absurdism of the plot dancing around this fact, there is no escaping that Meursault is a man indifferent to human life who killed a person for literally no reason at all and could do so again at any time without thought of consequence. In the face of these facts it is hard to argue that he is not a danger to others. When the lawyer in the court says that someone like Meursault's rejection of all traditional morality makes him a person who must be destroyed, it's hard to argue he's wrong even if he's RightForTheWrongReasons.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
One bullet that seemed to have been written as a rebuttal was combined into the main entry.


* DesignatedVillain: In order for the reader to sympathize with Meursault on some level, the authority figures in the book, namely the prosecutor and the chaplain are made into overzealous HangingJudge and hypocrites with CondescendingCompassion respectively, even if they are both carrying out the law, and that Meursault did commit a crime and that in the real world, someone who killed a man like Meursault did and harboured no guilt, would not be treated any differently. The fact that they express such zealous hatred of Meursault is mostly because of his atheism and lack of sorrow for his mother, with his murder as mostly an afterthought, not only makes them easier to dislike, but unfortunately also much more realistic for the time.

to:

* DesignatedVillain: In order for the reader to sympathize with Meursault on some level, the authority figures in the book, namely the prosecutor and the chaplain are made into overzealous HangingJudge and hypocrites with CondescendingCompassion respectively, even if they are both carrying out the law, and that Meursault did commit a crime and that in the real world, someone who killed a man like Meursault did and harboured no guilt, would not be treated any differently. The fact that they express such zealous hatred of Meursault is mostly because of his atheism and lack of sorrow for his mother, with his murder as mostly an afterthought, not only makes them easier to dislike, but unfortunately also much more realistic for the time.

Changed: 764

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* DesignatedVillain: In order for the reader to sympathize with Meursault on some level, the authority figures in the book, namely the prosecutor and the chaplain are made into overzealous HangingJudge and hypocrites with CondescendingCompassion respectively, even if they are both carrying out the law, and that Meursault did commit a crime and that in the real world, someone who killed a man like Meursault did and harboured no guilt, would not be treated any differently.
** The fact that they express such zealous hatred of Meursault is mostly because of his atheism and lack of sorrow for his mother, with his murder as mostly an afterthought, not only makes them easier to dislike, but unfortunately also much more realistic for the time.

to:

* DesignatedVillain: In order for the reader to sympathize with Meursault on some level, the authority figures in the book, namely the prosecutor and the chaplain are made into overzealous HangingJudge and hypocrites with CondescendingCompassion respectively, even if they are both carrying out the law, and that Meursault did commit a crime and that in the real world, someone who killed a man like Meursault did and harboured no guilt, would not be treated any differently.
**
differently. The fact that they express such zealous hatred of Meursault is mostly because of his atheism and lack of sorrow for his mother, with his murder as mostly an afterthought, not only makes them easier to dislike, but unfortunately also much more realistic for the time.time.
* StrawmanHasAPoint: However much the ValuesDissonance of the society of the time, and absurdism of the plot dancing around this fact, there is no escaping that Meursault is a man indifferent to human life who killed a person for literally no reason at all and could do so again at any time without thought of consequence. In the face of these facts it is hard to argue that he is not a danger to others.

Changed: 19

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: In this 1946 film, Franz Kindler is a [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi war criminal]] fleeing his complicity in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust who adopts a new identity as Charles Rankin in a sleepy suburban town. When a [[TheAtoner repentant Nazi]], Konrad Meinike, tracks him down, Kindler promptly murders him and then poisons his wife Mary's dog Red when Red sniffs around where he buried the corpse. When a Nazi hunter named Mr. Wilson tracks Kindler down, he reveals to Mary her husband's complicity in the Holocaust and how Kindler helped to develop the FinalSolution, showing her images of his atrocities. In a final attempt to keep his secret, Kindler tries to murder Mary. When stopped, Kindler protests he was JustFollowingOrders, which Wilson rejects by saying "you ''gave'' the orders."

to:

* CompleteMonster: In this 1946 film, Franz Kindler is a [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi war criminal]] fleeing his complicity in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust who adopts a new identity as Charles Rankin in a sleepy suburban town. When a [[TheAtoner repentant Nazi]], Konrad Meinike, tracks him down, Kindler promptly murders him and then poisons his wife Mary's dog Red when Red sniffs around where he buried the corpse. When a Nazi hunter named Mr. Wilson tracks Kindler down, he reveals to Mary her husband's complicity in the Holocaust and how Kindler helped to develop the FinalSolution, showing her images of his atrocities. In a final attempt to keep his secret, Kindler tries to murder Mary. When stopped, Kindler protests he was JustFollowingOrders, which Wilson rejects by saying "you ''gave'' the orders."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ValuesDissonance: Meursault is a French colonial settler in Algeria who murdered an Algerian man and then waxes poetic about his indifference. Many later critics and writers have taken Creator/AlbertCamus (who did support the Algerian Settlers) to task for using a crime against an Algerian native as a given for his philosophical speculation.
** But then again, this is entirely intentional. Had his murder been of a Frenchman, the entire trial would be taken much more seriously from the start - the disregard shown to the murder because of the victim being an Algerian is very much a plot point. Due to their prejudice, it takes the jury learning unrelated facts about Meursault's personal life to get them to even care about the trial at all. This is very much a commentary on their hypocrisy and twisted moral standards.

to:

* ValuesDissonance: Meursault is a French colonial settler in Algeria who murdered an Algerian man and then waxes poetic about his indifference. Many later critics and writers have taken Creator/AlbertCamus (who did support the Algerian Settlers) to task for using a crime against an Algerian native as a given for his philosophical speculation.
**
speculation. But then again, this is entirely intentional. Had his murder been of a Frenchman, the entire trial would be taken much more seriously from the start - the disregard shown to the murder because of the victim being an Algerian is very much a plot point. Due to their prejudice, it takes the jury learning unrelated facts about Meursault's personal life to get them to even care about the trial at all. This is very much a commentary on their hypocrisy and twisted moral standards.

Added: 269

Changed: 481

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The fact that they express such zealous hatred of Meursault is mostly because of his atheism and lack of sorrow for his mother, with his murder as mostly an afterthought, not only makes them easier to dislike, but unfortunately also much more realistic for the time.




to:

** But then again, this is entirely intentional. Had his murder been of a Frenchman, the entire trial would be taken much more seriously from the start - the disregard shown to the murder because of the victim being an Algerian is very much a plot point. Due to their prejudice, it takes the jury learning unrelated facts about Meursault's personal life to get them to even care about the trial at all. This is very much a commentary on their hypocrisy and twisted moral standards.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* MoralEventHorizon: For the audience, it is when Rankin kills a repentant Meinike. [[spoiler: For Mary, it is when she discovers that Rankin tried to kill her and may have succeeded in killing her brother.]]

Added: 345

Changed: 475

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* DesignatedVillain: In order for the reader to sympathize with Meursault on some level, the authority figures in the book, namely the prosecutor and the chaplain are made into overzealous HangingJudge and hypocrites with CondescendingCompassion respectively, even if they are both carrying out the law, and that Meursault did commit a crime and that in the real world, someone who killed a man like Meursault did and harboured no guilt, would not be treated any differently.
* ValuesDissonance: Meursault is a French colonial settler in Algeria who murdered an Algerian man and then waxes poetic about his indifference. Many later critics and writers have taken Creator/AlbertCamus (who did support the Algerian Settlers) to task for using a crime against an Algerian native as a given for his philosophical speculation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: In this 1946 film, Franz Kindler is a [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi war criminal]] fleeing his complicity in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust who adopts a new identity as Charles Rankin in a sleepy suburban town. When a [[TheAtoner repentant Nazi]], Konrad Meinike, tracks him down, Kindler promptly murders him and then poisons his wife Mary's dog Red when Red sniffs around where he buried the corpse. When a Nazi hunter named Mr. Wilson tracks Kindler down, he reveals to Mary her husband's complicity in the Holocaust and how Kindler helped to develop the FinalSolution, showing her images of his atrocities. In a final attempt to keep his secret, Kindler tries to murder Mary. When stopped, Kindler protests he was JustFollowingOrders, which Wilson rejects by saying "you gave the orders."

to:

* CompleteMonster: In this 1946 film, Franz Kindler is a [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi war criminal]] fleeing his complicity in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust who adopts a new identity as Charles Rankin in a sleepy suburban town. When a [[TheAtoner repentant Nazi]], Konrad Meinike, tracks him down, Kindler promptly murders him and then poisons his wife Mary's dog Red when Red sniffs around where he buried the corpse. When a Nazi hunter named Mr. Wilson tracks Kindler down, he reveals to Mary her husband's complicity in the Holocaust and how Kindler helped to develop the FinalSolution, showing her images of his atrocities. In a final attempt to keep his secret, Kindler tries to murder Mary. When stopped, Kindler protests he was JustFollowingOrders, which Wilson rejects by saying "you gave ''gave'' the orders."
* NightmareFuel: The documentary footage of the liberated death camp. It briefly shows a pile of corpses before switching to a big gas chamber, while Wilson calmly explains how the victims were given hot showers in order to open up their pores so the poison gas would penetrate their bodies faster.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Meursault a hero, a SociopathicHero, or a VillainProtagonist? Or just some random guy who shot another random guy for no real reason at all.

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Meursault a hero, a SociopathicHero, or a VillainProtagonist? Or is he just some random guy who shot another random guy for no real reason at all.all?

Added: 17

Changed: 17

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Formatting


!! The Novel



----
THE FILM
* CompleteMonster: In this 1946 film, Franz Kindler is a [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi war criminal]] fleeing his complicity in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust who adopts a new identity as Charles Rankin in a sleepy suburban town. When a [[TheAtoner repentant Nazi]], Konrad Meinike, tracks him down, Kindler promptly murders him and then poisons his wife Mary's dog Red when Red sniffs around where he buried the corpse. When a Nazi hunter named Mr. Wilson tracks Kindler down, he reveals to Mary her husband's complicity in the Holocaust and how Kindler helped to develop the FinalSolution, showing her images of his atrocities. In a final attempt to keep his secret, Kindler tries to murder Mary. When stopped, Kindler protests he was JustFollowingOrders, which Wilson rejects by saying "you gave the orders."

to:

----
THE FILM

!! The Film
* CompleteMonster: In this 1946 film, Franz Kindler is a [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi war criminal]] fleeing his complicity in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust who adopts a new identity as Charles Rankin in a sleepy suburban town. When a [[TheAtoner repentant Nazi]], Konrad Meinike, tracks him down, Kindler promptly murders him and then poisons his wife Mary's dog Red when Red sniffs around where he buried the corpse. When a Nazi hunter named Mr. Wilson tracks Kindler down, he reveals to Mary her husband's complicity in the Holocaust and how Kindler helped to develop the FinalSolution, showing her images of his atrocities. In a final attempt to keep his secret, Kindler tries to murder Mary. When stopped, Kindler protests he was JustFollowingOrders, which Wilson rejects by saying "you gave the orders.""

----

Changed: 40

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: Franz Kindler is a [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi war criminal]] fleeing his complicity in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust who adopts a new identity as Charles Rankin in a sleepy suburban town. When a [[TheAtoner repentant Nazi]] tracks him down, Kindler promptly murders him and then poisons his wife Mary's dog Red when Red sniffs around where he buried the corpse. When a Nazi hunter named Wilson tracks Kindler down, he reveals to Mary her husband's complicity in the Holocaust and how Kindler helped to develop the FinalSolution, showing her images of his atrocities. In a final attempt to keep his secret, Kindler tries to murder Mary. When stopped, Kindler protests he was JustFollowingOrders, which Wilson rejects by saying "you gave the orders."

to:

* CompleteMonster: In this 1946 film, Franz Kindler is a [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi war criminal]] fleeing his complicity in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust who adopts a new identity as Charles Rankin in a sleepy suburban town. When a [[TheAtoner repentant Nazi]] Nazi]], Konrad Meinike, tracks him down, Kindler promptly murders him and then poisons his wife Mary's dog Red when Red sniffs around where he buried the corpse. When a Nazi hunter named Mr. Wilson tracks Kindler down, he reveals to Mary her husband's complicity in the Holocaust and how Kindler helped to develop the FinalSolution, showing her images of his atrocities. In a final attempt to keep his secret, Kindler tries to murder Mary. When stopped, Kindler protests he was JustFollowingOrders, which Wilson rejects by saying "you gave the orders."

Added: 766

Changed: 851

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Approved by the thread.


* CompleteMonster: Franz Kindler is a [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi war criminal]] fleeing his complicity in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust who adopts a new identity as Charles Rankin in a sleepy suburban town. When a [[TheAtoner repentant Nazi]] tracks him down, Kindler promptly murders him and then poisons his wife Mary's dog Red when Red sniffs around where he buried the corpse. When a Nazi hunter named Wilson tracks Kindler down, he reveals to Mary her husband's complicity in the Holocaust and how Kindler helped to develop the FinalSolution, showing her images of his atrocities. In a final attempt to keep his secret, Kindler tries to murder Mary. When stopped, Kindler protests he was JustFollowingOrders, which Wilson rejects by saying "you gave the orders."
* DesignatedHero: Opinions differ whether Meursault is really a good person or not.

to:

* DesignatedHero: Opinions differ whether Meursault is really a good person or not.
----
THE FILM
* CompleteMonster: Franz Kindler is a [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi war criminal]] fleeing his complicity in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust who adopts a new identity as Charles Rankin in a sleepy suburban town. When a [[TheAtoner repentant Nazi]] tracks him down, Kindler promptly murders him and then poisons his wife Mary's dog Red when Red sniffs around where he buried the corpse. When a Nazi hunter named Wilson tracks Kindler down, he reveals to Mary her husband's complicity in the Holocaust and how Kindler helped to develop the FinalSolution, showing her images of his atrocities. In a final attempt to keep his secret, Kindler tries to murder Mary. When stopped, Kindler protests he was JustFollowingOrders, which Wilson rejects by saying "you gave the orders."
* DesignatedHero: Opinions differ whether Meursault is really a good person or not.
"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*CompleteMonster: Franz Kindler is a [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazi war criminal]] fleeing his complicity in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust who adopts a new identity as Charles Rankin in a sleepy suburban town. When a [[TheAtoner repentant Nazi]] tracks him down, Kindler promptly murders him and then poisons his wife Mary's dog Red when Red sniffs around where he buried the corpse. When a Nazi hunter named Wilson tracks Kindler down, he reveals to Mary her husband's complicity in the Holocaust and how Kindler helped to develop the FinalSolution, showing her images of his atrocities. In a final attempt to keep his secret, Kindler tries to murder Mary. When stopped, Kindler protests he was JustFollowingOrders, which Wilson rejects by saying "you gave the orders."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* DesignatedHero: Opinions range whether Meursault is really a good person or not.

to:

* DesignatedHero: Opinions range differ whether Meursault is really a good person or not.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Meursault a hero, a SociopathicHero, or a VillainProtagonist? Or just some random guy who shot another random guy for no real reason at all.

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Meursault a hero, a SociopathicHero, or a VillainProtagonist? Or just some random guy who shot another random guy for no real reason at all.all.
* DesignatedHero: Opinions range whether Meursault is really a good person or not.

Changed: 2

Removed: 696

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Disputable at best, especially since Camus saw himself as a muckraker and we have plenty of legal cases in colonial Algeria where French ethnics were tried and convicted of things like the murder of an Arab. This is not to say colonialism was ok or the system was not horrendously biased against non-French whites. but taking that at face value is not a good idea.


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Meursault a hero, a SociopathicHero, or a VillainProtagonist? Or just some random guy who shot another random guy for no real reason at all?
* CriticalResearchFailure: Most people who read the book know little or nothing about the history of colonial Algeria, and are thus unaware that, in real life, Meursault probably wouldn't even have been ''arrested'', and certainly wouldn't have been sentenced [[spoiler: to death]].
** This is kind of the point: the judge doesn't care about Meursault killing the Arab. It's fairly explicit that he is condemned for having "gone to the beach, smoked cigarettes, gone to the movies and drunk coffee with cream" (approximate quote) in the wake of his mother's death and for being an atheist. He is not condemned for one act but for his entire life before that act, which society deems reprehensible.

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Meursault a hero, a SociopathicHero, or a VillainProtagonist? Or just some random guy who shot another random guy for no real reason at all?
* CriticalResearchFailure: Most people who read the book know little or nothing about the history of colonial Algeria, and are thus unaware that, in real life, Meursault probably wouldn't even have been ''arrested'', and certainly wouldn't have been sentenced [[spoiler: to death]].
** This is kind of the point: the judge doesn't care about Meursault killing the Arab. It's fairly explicit that he is condemned for having "gone to the beach, smoked cigarettes, gone to the movies and drunk coffee with cream" (approximate quote) in the wake of his mother's death and for being an atheist. He is not condemned for one act but for his entire life before that act, which society deems reprehensible.
all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Meursault a hero, a SociopathicHero, or a VillainProtagonist? Or just some random guy who shot another random guy for no real reason at all?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CriticalResearchFailure: Most people who read the book know little or nothing about the history of colonial Algeria, and are thus unaware that, in real life, Meursault probably wouldn't even have been ''arrested'', and certainly wouldn't have been sentenced [[spoiler: to death]].

to:

* CriticalResearchFailure: Most people who read the book know little or nothing about the history of colonial Algeria, and are thus unaware that, in real life, Meursault probably wouldn't even have been ''arrested'', and certainly wouldn't have been sentenced [[spoiler: to death]].death]].
** This is kind of the point: the judge doesn't care about Meursault killing the Arab. It's fairly explicit that he is condemned for having "gone to the beach, smoked cigarettes, gone to the movies and drunk coffee with cream" (approximate quote) in the wake of his mother's death and for being an atheist. He is not condemned for one act but for his entire life before that act, which society deems reprehensible.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CriticalResearchFailure: Most people who read the book know little or nothing about the history of colonial Algeria, and are thus unaware that, in real life, Meursault probably wouldn't even have been ''arrested'' [[spoiler: for killing an Arab]], and certainly wouldn't have been sentenced [[spoiler: to death]] for it.

to:

* CriticalResearchFailure: Most people who read the book know little or nothing about the history of colonial Algeria, and are thus unaware that, in real life, Meursault probably wouldn't even have been ''arrested'' [[spoiler: for killing an Arab]], ''arrested'', and certainly wouldn't have been sentenced [[spoiler: to death]] for it.death]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CriticalResearchFailure: Most people who read the book know little or nothing about the history of colonial Algeria, and are thus unaware that, in real life, Meursault probably wouldn't even have been ''arrested'' for killing an Arab, and certainly wouldn't have been sentenced to death for it.

to:

* CriticalResearchFailure: Most people who read the book know little or nothing about the history of colonial Algeria, and are thus unaware that, in real life, Meursault probably wouldn't even have been ''arrested'' [[spoiler: for killing an Arab, Arab]], and certainly wouldn't have been sentenced [[spoiler: to death death]] for it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CriticalResearchFailure: Most people who read the book know little or nothing about the history of colonial Algeria, and are thus unaware that, in real life, Meursault probably wouldn't even have been ''arrested'' for killing an Arab, let alone sentenced to death for it.

to:

* CriticalResearchFailure: Most people who read the book know little or nothing about the history of colonial Algeria, and are thus unaware that, in real life, Meursault probably wouldn't even have been ''arrested'' for killing an Arab, let alone and certainly wouldn't have been sentenced to death for it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Added trope

Added DiffLines:

* CriticalResearchFailure: Most people who read the book know little or nothing about the history of colonial Algeria, and are thus unaware that, in real life, Meursault probably wouldn't even have been ''arrested'' for killing an Arab, let alone sentenced to death for it.

Top