The hermit mentions that he found his cave while he was chasing the wind, and it sounds just like Jax chasing the Moon. Perhaps the hermit's story was similar to Jax's: he was once an earthly man who was chasing the wind, he met another old Listener at the cave, but made a different choice and agreed to stay and learn, eventually abandoning his earthly desires and becoming a new hermit.
- The Cthaeh said that the Maer would lead Kvothe to the Amyr's door... is the Lockless Box what it was referring to?
- Not to mention that the box smells similar to the Cthaeh (lemon and spice). Bast mentioned that Iax talked to the Cthaeh before stealing the moon, perhaps the Cthaeh even gave Iax the box he used to steal the moon's name?
- If the box smells similar to the Cthaeh, maybe it was made from wood from the Cthaeh's tree?
- Selitos had the gift of great sight and the Cthaeh is able to see the future.
- One hitch to that, Lanre spoke to Cthaeh before he made Selitos watch the destruction of the city before Selitos cursed Lanre to be Haliax.
- The tinkers are always clearly differentiated from other traveling merchants. This implies they have a special significance.
- Constant traveling lets them acquire all sorts of news from around the world. This would make them an excellent information network.
- On both occasions Kvothe has met tinkers on the road, they have been leaving an area that has been recently visited by the Chandrian. The tinkers could have been there either to attempt to locate the Chandrian for the Amyr, or they could be part of the mystery of how the Chandrian move from place to place so quickly, although personally I believe that they have been using the Waystones.
- This last bit is unrelated, but it's odd: Both times Kvothe has had dealings with the tinkers, he has refused some of the supplies offered. Both times the situation turned out badly due to the lack of those items. With the wine Denna and Kvothe would have grown closer at Trebon, and with the rope the draccus would have been killed easily. The second time Kvothe refused rubbing wax and found out afterwards that his boots weren't waterproofed and became more argumentative. He needed those things, and it's possible that the tinkers somehow knew that. Suspicious...
I think his title Kingkiller has a meaning in 3 parts, its the title of the books after all and I think he kills more than one king.
First reason for the title
- Ambrose has been foreshadowed to be in a family moving up in the royal line, likely through his father and after he takes the barony his own power plays. The conflict between the two is inevitable. Ambrose is almost assuredly one king.
Second reason for his title
- His mother was a Lackless (its all but spelled out for us) and he may very well be the last male heir to that family. We know that Maer Alveron is of near equal power to the king, he has been poisoned and still has the lingering effects of heavy metals in his system. Essentially with that alone he could croak at any moment. He is without an heir. Even if his brush with death didn't kill him, he is married to a proven spiteful, ruthless Meluan Lackless. My personal feeling is she will be behind his death, if he doesn't die of his past ailments alone. (Sending Kvothe his most able servant, away out of rage induced blindness is proof that she is at the very least bad for him.) With the death of the Maer, suddenly madam Lackless is on par for power with the king. She will reinstate the hunting of ravel and Kvothe will be forced to challenge her, through discovery of his title he enters again the court games this time in a power vacuum with the death of the Maer now a blood game. He plays the game well ultimately leading to her death making him king and also killer.
Third reason for the title
- Finally we know he has faked his own death and attempted to disappear through his present allusions as Kote. I think he sees the signs of war too much contempt for a king killer, a consort of demons, one of the fae, to be king and knows that he has his own encompassing revenge to attend to, so he props someone he sees as perfect for the job up as best he can and then fakes his own death.
Cinder is immortal somehow, and that this was granted, not an original ability, which seems reasonable, as only Lanre has reign over the Doors of the Mind. (Sleep, Forgetting, Madness, Death)
Cinder is as old as Haliax, as were the rest of the Seven, as they helped him betray the Empire. As such, he was not recruited after the fact. He knows how rain falls, so to speak.
Caesura is the name for Kvothe's original sword, and Kaysera is a bastardization of that, rather than a name for Folly.Corollary: Folly is not Caesura, which I do not imagine could be shaped.
Here is the leap- Cinder, or something he possesses (For expedience, his possession, if it is one, will be his sword.) grants his immortality, and does so only because he or it has been shaped. As such, when Haliax threatened and hurt him with the Name Ferula. (Rather than his proper name, after being shaped, (Not before, or it would not ping his name-radar) which is Ferule.) I propose that this was his original name, or a variant on his new one that is not immortal.
The implication: Kvothe kills Cinder (I am convinced by his "I have killed men, and things that were more than men, every one of them deserved it." speech that he has killed one of the Seven, and logic indicates that he would kill Cinder, as he has a personal antagonism towards him, along with it providing a source for Folly.) by Shaping him, either back to who he was, or something entirely new.
The probable reality: This has to connect to how he opened The Doors of Stone. (Note: TDOS could be the Lackless door, the 4-plate door, anything. No matter what, he opens it.) As such, he either:Opens the door by Shaping (Unlikely, as we see Haliax Shape/Name, and Kvothe has a chance to do it to Felurian.)Opened the door to learn to Shape (Unlikely, as he can Shape already; all he needs is power over Cinder's Name, a easy task in the long run.)He opened the door to find Cinder. (To me, this is most likely, assuming my theory works.)
- I think that telling his story and dealing with whatever is coming for him is going to make him want to actually live again. Going out and having more adventures, perhaps leading to books after the trilogy.
- Well, that's certainly Bast's intent.
- Considering Patrick Rothfuss has said he's going to write two trilogies, one dealing with the backstory and a second one that tells Kvothe's story from this point onwards, I find it likely that Kvothe with live through this (the first) trilogy.
- Where did he say that?
- Sorry dude, but he explicitly mentioned that he had been chewing a birth control herb the whole time. Unless he goes back and knocks one of them up there ain't gonna be any red-headed Adem any time soon.
- Just to be contrary, while Kvothe and Bast describe her physical features in past tense, they use "have" when describing their interactions with her. That is, Bast says something like "I've seen her once, too," and so forth in that fashion. To this Troper, that sounds like the way you'd refer to someone who's alive but you haven't seen in a long time. Of course, it's hardly conclusive either way; Rothfuss is clever about keeping secrets.
I have a related theory based on a reread of the first book: Denna is not Denna. I noticed that her introduction didn't make sense, and I realized why: in the interlude Kvothe makes a big speech about not knowing how to describe how he met her — except he already had met her, a year ago, traveling with the caravan. At first I thought that Rothfuss was being tricky and that the unnamed "her" actually referred to Devi or Auri, but Kvothe's wording is quite specific: he met "her," for the very first time, across the river, at the Eolian. Kvothe then has trouble describing her, despite the fact that he'd already described Denna back at the caravan. It's all carefully arranged to contradict itself, and the only way it makes sense is if the Denna from the Eolian onwards is a completely different person than the Denna Kvothe met at the caravan.
- "I remember your name, Denna." It sounded good to say it to her. "Why did you take a new one? Or was Denna just the name you were wearing on the road to Anilin?""Denna," she said softly. "I'd almost forgotten her. She was a silly girl.""She was like a flower unfolding.""I stopped being Denna years ago, it seems." She rubbed her bare arms and looked around as if she was suddenly uneasy that someone might find us here.
- I have to disagree. Denna later remembers their first encounter, which Kvothe thought she had forgotten. What would be the sense of having two Dennas in the story?
- Unless Denna changes her true name (as it's suggested Kvothe did when he became Kote) and becomes in essence a different person.
- I have to disagree. Denna later remembers their first encounter, which Kvothe thought she had forgotten. What would be the sense of having two Dennas in the story?
- I think it may be more likely to be his mother's side, if she is a Lackless as it is strongly hinted at (we know that one of the Lackless daughters ran off with a man of the Ruh and they have a mysterious box in their family that remains unopened. It could also have something to do with the man who locked away the moon).
- There's Fae blood through the entire race of the Edema Ruh. He's always being identified as Ruh by his eyes, so there must be something odd about them that's consistent with the rest of the Family. What's the most noticeable feature of Kvothe's eyes (that he shares with Bast)? Yup. Maybe it's stronger in his immediate family.
- I imagine that Kvothe is his mother's son, but not his father's. They both are described as having dark hair, while Kvothe's is bright red. He is also described as having his mother's eyes. Still, judging from the total lack of suspicion about it, I am suspecting that he is from a previous marriage or perhaps a passing Fairy thought she was pretty and didn't give her a choice in the matter..
- Red hair is recessive, so it doesn't matter what color either of his parents' hair is. I think the blood in the Edema Ruh is probably enough (and that it was accentuated by the fae he met in "The Wise Man's Fear").
Alternatively: Kvothe is a dennerling. We haven't been told what a dennerling is yet, but it was implied to be related to an unruly child. Rothfuss' mythos is very much built on Western European folklore, and what's one of the most distinctive creatures from Western European folklore? The changeling: children stolen away from their parents and replaced by an identical fairy child. If a dennerling is a changeling, then our Kvothe could be a fae replacement for the real one, who could have been taken away for who knows what purposes.
- "Dennerling" probably alludes to denner resin, the opium-like substance. A "dennerling" would be somebody stupid enough to get hooked on denner resin.
- Dennerlings are repeatedly listed along with other creatures of myth. I'm guessing he wanted something like a morphling (like morphine to denner resin, ha). But, other than showing up on lists, there's no further information given. Just doesn't feel like another name for a sweet eater.
In the framing story, there are hints that Kvothe has lost his sympathy abilities, or that they are at least greatly weakened. However, he does shatter a bottle several feet away without touching it, and when Chronicler makes a binding of iron against Bast, Kvothe orders him to undo it or he will break it himself. This implies that he still possesses a degree of power, enough to counter another namer directly. Later, during the possessed bandits attack on his inn, he hurls a bottle at the demon and tries to set it on fire with a binding, without result. But what if he did this on purpose? There were several other people in the inn during the fight. If any of them saw him set an attacker on fire without touching it, it probably wouldn't be long until stories began to circulate about a red haired man who used 'magic' to combat a demon. Additionally, Bast has been trying to forced a reconnect between Kote and Kvothe; if Kvothe made a show of attempting to use sympathy against the attacker, he could use that to help convince Bast he is not the man he once was. So he makes an apparent attempt to attack with sympathy, and voluntarily let the binding fail to better establish his cover as Kote.
The Maer reveals to Kvothe near the end of the book that Meluan hates the Edema Ruh because her sister ran off with them. In book one, Kvothe's mother says she was a noblewoman who was lured away from the boredom of her life by his father. This would also explain why she was so offended by Kvothe singing the vulgar innuendo rhyme about 'Lady Lackless' when he was a child.
- When he meets Meluan for the first time he remarks on her familiar profile, dark brown eyes and strong jaw ("...such a strong resemblance that I couldn't help but stare. I knew her, I was certain of it. But I couldn't for the life of me remember where we might have met... ." [Chapter 67]). I am not even sure if that's an argument for or against, as I can't recall whether his mother was ever described in any detail. Though I suspect it might weigh in on the pro-side.
- Wait, then older sister wasn't it? Making Kvothe the true heir?
- That would depend on the order of succession, wouldn't it? Plus, there probably wouldn't be a way to prove it (except for opening the lockless chest/door/whatever, maybe).
- That poem mentioning that you need "a true son of the blood" to open the Lockless treasure is way too much of a Chekhov's Gun for him not to be - there are no known male Lockless heirs right now.
- Depending on the definition of "true son of the blood" and depending again on how the other family trees really fared there might be a lot more of them. To me most of them having "spiraled into obscurity" sounds like genealogy-talk for Put on a Bus. I might almost be able to convince myself, that Devan "the Chronicler" Lochees is part of one of those families, almost. Though I have no plausible idea as to how that might make an interesting story.
- That would depend on the order of succession, wouldn't it? Plus, there probably wouldn't be a way to prove it (except for opening the lockless chest/door/whatever, maybe).
- Let us also not forget the song that Kvothe's father wrote (that ended up with him sleeping under a wagon). Stands to reason her issue with it wasn't really the rhythm, but something a bit more telling..."Dark Laurian, Arliden's wife,
Has a face like a blade of a knife
Has a voice like a prickledown burr
But can tally a sum like a moneylender.
My sweet Tally cannot cook.
But she keeps a tidy ledger-book
For all her faults I do confess
It's worth my life
To make my wife
Not tally a lot less..."
Not tally a lot less
Netalia Lockless- Seems totally in keeping with his fathers sense of humor. I like it.
- If this is true, then for all intents and purposes, the Maer is now Kvothe's uncle.
- Also, note where Arliden put this little gem in: "My Tally cannot cook", at first it seems like a pun on how his wife is so good with making "tallys" but a second glance and you realize that "Tally"(note the capital) could very easily be a pet name or short form of Natalia. Add to that the "Not tally a lot less" line, as well as the remark Kvothe makes about Meluan looking so familiar... Well in my opinion it makes for an at least moderatly strong argument.
- I think this is pretty telling:I walked the Lady Lackless to the table and held out her chair. I had avoided looking in her direction as we walked the length of the room, but as I helped her into her seat, her profile struck me with such a strong resemblance that I couldn’t help but stare. I knew her, I was certain of it. But I couldn’t for the life of me remember where we might have met...
- Seems more likely to me that Lord Haliax is the slain king. Having said that, your theory is certainly more interesting, being less of a cliche.
- Also, just a reminder that Kvothe is not old. We perceive him as a grandpa because he's wise and lived a very busy life, but it says straight out in the first chapter that he's still in his twenties(!).
- Early twenties, even: Chronicler says he can't be more than twenty-five. A little jolting, since if you don't read carefully it's easy to think he's in his late thirties or forties, even.
- Can't be Haliax, since Haliax isn't a king, and is very assiduous about keeping everything about him secret. If Kvothe kills Haliax, no one will know.
- And reading through the book, you always get a sense that the Chandrian are still out there, making it possible that Haliax is still alive, and possibly the Big Bad at the end of the trilogy.
- Also, just a reminder that Kvothe is not old. We perceive him as a grandpa because he's wise and lived a very busy life, but it says straight out in the first chapter that he's still in his twenties(!).
- To this troper, it seems far more likely that Ambrose will be killed early in the second book. At the start of Name of the Wind, a slightly drunk traveller mentions that 'he saw the place in Imre where Kvothe killed "him"', and that the cobblestones where the unknown person was killed are shattered beyond possibility of reparation. Assuming that this incident takes place around the time that Kvothe is studying at the university (which it probably would) then it is most likely Ambrose, as Kvothe has no other enemies in that area. It is possible that Ambrose's possible death could occur shortly after he gets Kvothe expelled, which would be sure to infuriate him.
- In a Q&A session not long ago, a reader pointed out that Kvothe might already have been thrown out of university, being the occasion where he calls the name of the wind on ambrose and has to go to court on it, and as such might never get "properly" expelled. This would help explain why he didn't get thrown out in the second book, too.
- As already pointed out, Ambrose is 16th in line for the throne. I think it's possible that Kvothe kills Ambrose either causing or as a repercussion of his expulsion from The University. That still leaves his father or younger siblings, it is mentioned he was the first born, to become King. And, while I don't exactly know where in the book, I believe Kvothe mentions he's the one that caused the war with Vintas, the very country Ambrose is from/in line for the throne of. My bet is Kvothe kills the King of Vintas in the future (Be it Ambrose or more likely one of his family) thereby gaining his title and starting the war.
- A bit more evidence in the second book—some of the family above Ambrose is killed off, leaving him 13th in line for the throne instead of 16th.
- One of the Newarrians says they heard Kvothe's sword was called "poet-killer". Ambrose is known to practice poetry. Put two and two together ...
- Simmon also notably practices poetry. Might or might not be related.
- Ambrose will use Denna as a pawn in his feud with Kvothe. Denna will die as a result. Kvothe will murder Ambrose in an act of pure vengeance.
- If the WMG about one of the Chandrian being Denna's patron is true, the Chandrian might set up Denna to be killed by Ambrose in order to draw Kvothe back into his fued, and therefore away from whatever Chandrian plans that Kvothe might've interfered with otherwise.
- Alternately, her mysterious benefactor is a Chandrian or connected to them. His leading her off into the woods and then going back to the wedding right before everyone dies is a the most gigantic red flag you could ask for. This Troper wanted to throttle Kvothe when all he cared about was finding her for the boring romantic crap and not finding out more about the incredibly obvious sinister man.
- Don't forget that Kvothe has a HUGE blind spot in regards to Denna. Whether this is because she's a Chandrian, a Fey, or just very very pretty is unclear.
- All her names sound similar, and several times it's mentioned that she can only act according to her nature (sound familiar?). Note: we still don't know what a Dennerling is.
- At one point near the end of the second book, Denna lays down on a rock, and Kvothe can see the name of the wind spelled out in her hair.
- There was also the conversation where she compared Kvothe to a willow, followed shortly by him calling her words "naught but the wind". She replied something along the lines of "above all other trees, the willow moves according to the wind's desire."
- Quite a bit of what Denna says could be interpeted as being extremely suspicious. When she's under the influence of the denner resin and Kvothe says that he's surprised that she noticed his eyes changing color, Denna blurts out that "It's my job to watch you." I strongly suspect that the Chandrian are using her to spy on Kvothe and make sure he doesn't learn anything about them.
- And then there's the fact that in the second book, she is extremely interested in how magic works, and specifically asks if there's a type of magic that works with only words. Is this something her patron has told her about? Does it have anything to do with the fact that she knows Yllish knots?
- Was re-reading the first book and something stood out to me. When asking Deoch about her, Kvothe is told "She travels, always here and gone again". That sounds a LOT like the rhyme for Alenta "Silent come and silent go". As for the silent? She never gives any notice of when she's going to disappear or re-appear. Denna is also described as being quite pale, which relates to the preceding line: "See the woman pale as snow"
- Kvothe doesn't call Ambrose by name when he first meets him, he is simply using his name as he narrates the story to Chronicler. Also the stableman introduced himself in his first line. The rest of the points here are valid though, he also correctly guessed that the girl in the Inn at Trebon was called Nell. He's quite good at nicknames too, Ellie = Ell, Verainia = Nina, Skoivan Schiemmelpfenneg = Schiem.
- More evidence of this in the second book. He names Auri after the sun, but not in the language he thought he used.
- Could also be a knack. I completely forgot about those, since they weren't mentioned outside of the first few chapters of book 1, but it seems to be an unconscious ability, which would fly with Kvothe's accidental naming prowess, as well as his typical inability to do such things on purpose.
- I would think that for a master namer, the power of being The Nicknamer with uncanny accuracy and unconsciously knowing what people call themselves just goes with the territory. Also makes ominous foreshadowing: in the first book he says he'll have to make up a name for Denna's patron, and the wind blows an ash leaf into his hand. Cinder is another word for Ash.
- When attempting to make up a nickname for Denna's patron, Kvothe suggests "Fredrick the Flippant. Frank. Feran. Forue. Fordale..." While Fredrick and Frank are clearly jokes, Feran, Forue, and Fordale are remarkably similar to Ferula, which is the name Haliax used to chastise Cinder. So he's good at guessing names of things he's not even around, and it also is yet another clue to the "Denna's Patron is Cinder" theory discussed below.
- Smart people are capable of making mistakes y'know. A high IQ does not translate immediately into similar social skills or even a sense of self-preservation. The Wright brothers piloted their aircraft well aware of what might happen if they screwed up.
- Alternatively: Kvothe is brilliant, but he's also still a dumb teenager. Everyone's an idiot as a teenager.
- As D&D players would say, "High INT, low WIS."
- Spotty on the INT too. He knows much, but he's slow to make connections. Examples: The dragon and the charcoal (kind of obvious), the way the Ambrose situation would inevitably explode, and why didn't you ask a master for help in figuring out what to do about him —if you've read HPatMoR, Kvothe has flaws that the fic's Harry works through in two or three chapters. I can't work out if it's Author Error or Character Error, though.
- Hopefully Character Error. If not, Kvothe would be an incredibly boring Mary Sue.
- In DND terms, wisdom isn't just good for will saves: its also about making the connections between the information, or knowing to check something in the first place. Kvothe knows a lot and, once he focuses on something, is good at it. But he isn't good at knowing what to focus on. Also, he doesn't have many ranks in Diplomacy.
- Diplomacy is cross-class for truenamers. (Class skills: Concentration, Craft, Knowledge, Perform, Truespeak, Use Magic Device. Primary abilities: INT and CHA. Hmmm....)
- Spotty on the INT too. He knows much, but he's slow to make connections. Examples: The dragon and the charcoal (kind of obvious), the way the Ambrose situation would inevitably explode, and why didn't you ask a master for help in figuring out what to do about him —if you've read HPatMoR, Kvothe has flaws that the fic's Harry works through in two or three chapters. I can't work out if it's Author Error or Character Error, though.
- Kvothe has a great intelligence and a no less monumental loftiness, as most of his troubles come from his insistence to annoy a powerful nobleman like Ambrose just because his own conceit.
- Well,the way it's described the sword at the inn looks very much like Cinder's sword
- Well, come on.
- Or Ash is Haliax.
- Dude. Cinder. Ash.
- Or Ash is Haliax.
- Point of evidence: the Cthaeh tells Kvothe that Denna's benefactor had started beating Denna with his walking stick, and that that was "new". Cinder, meanwhile, had recently been shot in the leg, and so was likely to be using a new walking stick.
- Plus, he got the name Ash when Kvothe said that he would have to make up a name and 'the wind' blew him an ash leaf.
- Ash being Cinder might explain why Denna was so keen to write a song painting Lanre as a hero. Cinder probably steered her in that direction, either to hide Lanre/Haliax's true nature, or to piss Kvothe off.
- Before Caudicus tries to kill the Maer he mentions that he's a friend of the Jakis family, and we know that 'accidents' can happen in the Pirate Barony, which is part of the Jakis lands. We even have the happiness about the Surthur family dying in there!
- There is evidence that Bredon is her patron (note also: Denna says her patron is surprisingly light on his feet, Bredon says he has recently taken up dancing). But for the other part, one question: if her patron is an Amyr, why would he request a song that makes Lanre out to be a hero?
- If Bredon really is Denna's patron and really is an Amyr, then he lives by their creed: Ivare Enim Euge. "For the greater good". When Kvothe hears Denna's song about Lanre, he admits that it's a good song and would spread easily. And we know that the Chandrian are attracted to people who say their names. It's entirely possible that the Amyr are using Denna's song to draw out the Chandrian and force them to show up and kill people who sing the song. Sure, lots of people will probably die before the Amyr catch them, but chances are the Chandrian will be caught eventually, and to the Amyr, the capture/killing of the Chandrian is definitely worth the deaths of unknown numbers of innocent people.
- Not only did he commission a song about Lanre, but Denna's patron first tried to get her to learn the lyre. Lyra was the name of Lanre's love who brought Lanre back to life (and Lanre was corrupted trying to find a way to return the favor). Denna died for a few minutes when she was a small child. Not to mention that Kvothe had to 'trick a demon to gain his heart's desire, then fight an angel to keep it'. Maybe her patron is involved with Haliax, and after Kvothe rescues her from him, he will be forced to fight the Amyr trying to 'clean up' the mess by killing Denna?
- A further theory: We are told Denna's patron beats her. Assuming that the Cthaeh is telling the truth and not lying outright, it could mean "beating" as in Training from Hell. Perhaps Denna is being trained by the Amyr, and the Cthaeh was putting it in the worst possible light. Which would be just like it.
- Agreed. It will turn out to be the Cthaeh which has been using its perfect foresight to set up a Gambit Roulette, manipulating history for thousands, or even tens of thousands, of years for the single purpose of creating Kvothe to do whatever incredibly stupid thing it is that the framing sections suggest he's responsible for (maybe opening the Lackless box and freeing the Scrael).
- Someone mentioned above that the sword Folly might belong to one of the Chandrian. If that's true, it's possible that the Chandrian may have had an important role to play for the world despite their evil...before Kvothe killed them.
- Its all but certain that there's a connection, but the portrayals of Encanis don't quite appear to mesh with what we've seen of Haliax/Lanre. It's probably more likely that Lanre made a deal with Encanis in order to gain the great power with Names that he used to bind Selitos. Remember also that Lanre/Haliax's face is only enshrouded by shadow as a result of Selitos' actions. This is further supported by the fact that Kvothe has not really made any allusions that his story has anything to do with Encanis, except possibly via symbolism. On the other hand, Trapis' story makes mention of how demons often possessed men during that time, so that could be a possibility.
- The OP isn't saying Encanis became Lanre. Just the opposite: over the years the stories of Lanre/Haliax have been corrupted into stories about a demon named Encanis.
- I agree, though the second book seems to imply that there's more to it than either story: the creation war is implied to have been between powerful Namers and been involved in the creation of Faerie.
- While this troper believes that Skarpi is probably either a member of the Amyr or closely affiliated with them, it should be noted that the moment mentioned above where he 'speaks of Tehlu in a familiar fashion' may be a misinterpretation. In the book Skarpi states "I suppose that could be true. Tehlu always said -" before being cut off. Its possible he was merely about to recite a famous religious quote.
- He immediately fastens onto Kvothe's request for Lanre's story out of the crowd in Tarbean, tells it, and surely observes that the story holds significance to Kvothe afterwards, when they talk. He tells a heretical story that touches on the possible origins of the Amyr. He laughs off the threat of being tried for heresy, states he has powerful friends in the church (hmm, what organizations do we know that had ties to the church?), and specifically talks at Kvothe even as he's being arrested. Why would he bother doing that for some random member of his story audience? I'll go a little farther and suggest that his story hours are an important part of his 'job'; spreading true stories (or alternatively, what he wants to be seen as the truth) among the impressionable youth, rather than the Tehlin church's accepted doctrine or something like Denna's song that puts a different spin on the story of Lanre.
- From Skarpi's story it almost seemed like Tehlu was Knight Templar Angel instead of a god, who came to be worshipped because of his actions. Given what we learn in The Wise Man's Fear about the creation of fairy and The Creation War, both Skarpi and Tehlu could be one of the ancient namers who set out to destroy the Chandrian. Or he could be with the Amyr, but Tehlu was still likely one of the ancient Namers.
- Well Skarpi's second story implies that Aleph gave power to a group of namers to dispense justice and hunt the Chandrian while others chose to seek to prevent evil before it occurred and became the Amyr. But Skarpi DOES know the names of everyone he speaks to and far too much of their history. He's probably a Namer at least, though whether he's historical or just powerful is a good question.
- Wise Man's Fear shows us that Tehlu and the others were created to dispense justice after the fact, and calling their names is what brings them to do so. People came to misunderstand that and started worshiping Tehlu as a god, though it still has the effect of calling him by name. We see this in practice when a terrified Martin starts praying to Tehlu, which is when Cinder gets worried and flees.
- Skarpi's also one of the first characters we hear about. Chronicler describes him as "an old friend" of Kvothe and mentions that he had been traveling with Skarpi when they heard rumors of Kvothe. Unless Kvothe and Skarpi meet up sometime in the third book, it's makes no sense. And Skarpi now knows where Kvothe is...
- It's almost impossible to find any information about either one. Kvothe thinks the Amyr actively destroyed information about themselves and we KNOW the Chandrian do the same.
- People think of the Amyr as evil, though they really just seem extremely pragmatic. The Chandrian seem evil, but note Haliax scolding Cinder for not being more clean and efficient.
- The Chandrian are so old that most people think of them as a distant myth. As things progress, we discover that the Amyr are a lot older than people think.
- People don't like talking about the Chandrian and it turns out that those who know more about them don't like talking about the Amyr either.
- The frame narrative speaks as if the Chandrian still exist, suggesting that Kvothe doesn't destroy them. Though it sounds as though the ending will be bittersweet, we expect Kvothe to "win" in the end even if it turns out to be a Pyrrhic victory. It seems more likely to this troper that he realizes that destroying them is a bad idea, despite what they did to his family.
- The more pragmatic, more relative philosophy Kvothe slowly adopts throughout the second book might allow him to make such a hard choice.
- Denna's song in the second book might end up being right in a way. If the Chandrian are the Amyr, the villains are, in a sense, also the heroes.
- Perhaps the Chandrian used to be Amyr?
- Seems unlikely. When Haliax is punishing Cinder, in the scene right after the Chandrian kill Kvothe's parents, he says, "Who keeps you safe from the Amyr? The singers? The Sithe? From all that would harm you in the world?" This indicates that the Chandrian and the Amyr are two opposing groups, even if they were once part of the same.
- Iax was also mentioned in Scarpis first story though, as one of the most powerful Namers, and its said that Lanre had become AS POWERFUL as him. They're different people, and Haliax's name was new. But the -iax at the end may signify something else.
- I took the name Iax as merely another example of how stories change in the telling and how languages drift. In Hespe's story, the boy is named Jax, with the i->j shift matching up with real-world linguistics. That doesn't dismiss any correlation between Iax and Haliax, but I don't think the name necessarily implies a correlation either.
- Haliax isn't J/Iax. Lanre started as just a warrior and mysteriously became the namer known as Haliax, which is listed to be so powerful as j/Iax.
- Also, Felurian says that the person who stole the moon did so so long ago that there's basically no history recorded from that time. The existence of Myr Tariniel and the 7 other cities in the Haliax story is corroborated by historical records.
- Presumably someone who knew Kvothe very well (e.g, Denna) bound him with his own name, the same way Selitos bound Lanre. I mean, one of the first things he says in the story is what turns out to be his secret Ademic name - why would he reveal something so sensitive, if it still had power over him?
- Doesn't Kvothe destroy a full bottle of liquor from across the bar in the first book? It seems like this would mean that rather than not being able to use sympathy, instead he has lost the mental focus to use Alar, as though it had failed him in a major way at some point. Perhaps having to do with his reactions to when the Chronicler mentions Denna?
- It would be very fairy tale for Kvothe to have forgotten or changed his true name, probably in order to hide from his enemies. One of the first things it says in the first book is that he had 'changed his name for most of the usual reasons, and some unusual ones as well.' His old name might even be in the Thrice Locked Chest, which he didn't count on not being able to open again, but in any case it would give a sort of bitter irony to the fact that Everyone Calls Him "Barkeep".
- Doesn't Kote mean 'Disaster'? If he changed his name to that in a fit of melancholy, it could be that he cursed himself.
- Kvothe can use the Ketan, but didn't because he knew Bast was trying to rouse him back to his old self by forcing him to fight.
- Or it could even be that Bast was right and he HAD been badly hurt the day before.
- However, if it wasn't sympathy, when he met the Chronicler, how did he break a bottle he wasn't touching by squeezing his hand?
Kote might have Kvothe's memory, but he isn't the true Kvothe. He might be some sort of simulacrum, or simply crazy.
- Alternately, Kvothe has changed his True Name, as Elodin mistakenly feared he had, and now he has lost the powers that Kvothe personally possessed.
- Especially if he was feeling bitter and gave himself a bad name.
(Even more) Alternatively:
In WMF, Kvothe swears not to investigate Denna's Patron. He swears it by his name (Kvothe -> Kote), his Power (no Sympathy), his good left hand (a few dozen pages later he references using his left hand to fret notes on his lute) and something about the moon which is probably not relevant. It would kind of follow that if he broke that oath somehow and either chose to enforce it on himself or had it somehow magicked onto him, thus forcing him to become Kote the lame innkeeper.
- Does it count as 'investigation' if you don't know you're doing it? If he finds out he's sworn not to investigate, say, one of the Chandrian (Cinder, see above) as long as he's Denna's patron Kvothe is not going to be happy.
- I agree with you on all counts but one. The "I swear it by the ever changing Moon" is almost certainly relevant. The moon definitely has some power in the series, and it seems likely that by swearing on "the ever changing Moon" Kvothe swore on some sort of power which he doesn't understand.
- The moon seems to be a major way that Faerie connects to the human world. In the Kote sections, there are various magic demon-fae-folk wandering around and causing trouble. Perhaps Kvothe screwed up the barrier between the worlds.
- The Cthaeh devoted quite a bit of its speech to Kvothe to describing how Denna was being abused by her patron. The Cthaeh wouldn't have said that unless it's going to cause something horrible to happen. For example, Kvothe could witness Denna being abused and then kill her patron, only to discover that her patron is actually the King or someone equally high placed. He then tries running away to the Maer for protection, which is how Kvothe ends up responsible for starting the war. And I can easily imagine Kvothe deciding that ensuring Denna's safety is more important than keeping his oath. He is a self-described liar, after all.
- Or it wants him to break his oath, so he won't be able to do something at the worst possible time. Oh, and regret it forever.
- There's a brief mention at the end of Kvothe unconsciously massaging is left hand with his right.
- That could have been because of his failure to defend himself.
- There are other mentions of his hand in the books too. A major one is after he buys a lute in NOTW, where he says he loves it like "his good right hand", this being the last of a list of things he compares it to, and the closing words of the chapter. So, yeah, slight emphasis there.
- The books have gone out of their way to point out how Kvothe will drop his honor the moment it becomes an inconvenience. Let's give a short list: stealing rare materials from the Artificery, giving out Arcanum secrets to normals (the gram - that he technically stole from the Arcanum as well), multiple counts of malfeasance, plying a half-cracked girl with wine to make her more willing to show him the Underthing (followed shortly by abusing this trust to break into the Archives), making mommets of allies whenever they seem likely to turn against him, breaking his word to Kilvin by letting Devi hold on to his burgler's lamp, and also letting Devi hold Denna's beloved ring as collateral (note: of this whole list, this is the ONLY thing he shows the slightest guilt for). Hell, Vashet gave a whole speech about this tendency, about something dark running "deeper than the Lethani" in Kvothe. After all that, breaking an oath - which he only reluctantly agreed to - in order to protect Denna seems very possible.
Bast is Kvothe's son with Felurian. Reshi might mean father or dad. The way Bast is so worried for him and trying to measure up to him. Time is also apparently kind of blurry in the Fae realm. These all support the theory that Bast is Kvothe's son.
- Unlikely. Near the beginning of Name of the Wind, this is how Kvothe introduces Bast to Chronicler: "Chronicler, I would like you to meet Bastas, son of Remmen, Prince of Twilight and the Telwyth Mael." On the other hand, Felurian is supposed to be the Lady of Twilight. So...it's hard to say, but I still think it's unlikely for Bast to be Kvothe's son.
- Grandson, then? ;)
- Also,Kvothe mentions Bast is 150 years old. Though given the relationship of time between Fae and the mortal world that alone isn't much of an indication of anything. Still, Bast's comments about Felurian near the end of WMF indicate he only knows her by reputation.
- Bast seems to be more tolerant of iron than most Fae folk, suggesting he has human blood. Also, think about what word Bast could be short for.
- Quite unlikely though. If Kvothe is the grandfather of a 150-year-old fae, he must be more than 400-years-old. Now that would have to mean that Chronicler, who is older than Kvothe, is also some sort of immortal.
- I think it might be possible because: Time passes differently in faerieland and Bast is repeatedly shown to be quite amorous which is a trait of Felurian. I'm not sure though, it seems too contrived, but I think there is evidence. Also, I think that he does return to her and she may send Bast away with Kvothe because the half-human child would not have a good life in the Fae world.
- However, I think it is a far stretch, and why wouldn't she have had children before? But based on WMF where Bast gives knowledge on other Fae creatures, he likely spent at least childhood among the Fae, and his learning more human subjects from Kvothe might be a hint that his early years were almost completely lacking in human education. Given his reluctance to pay attention, I think it may show that his reasons for entering the human world were not about traditional human scholarship (though it could be for adventure and a preference for human women).
- It seems entirely possible that Kvothe might use his own true name to cripple himself at the end of the series, perhaps after breaking the oath to Denna mentioned above. If he used his true name to prevent himself from naming, he'd be stuck with the changes.
- Which would form a nice parallel to the way Lanre gained power naming himself or getting himself named Haliax.
When recollecting the events of his stay with Ferulean, Kvothe compared the faerie with Elodin quite frequently. The sound of their voices instil the same effect on people. They both speak in a similar nonchalant manner, and says things that makes little sense. In fact, Kvote described Ferulean as a "quieter, more attractive version of Elodin". Also, despite his supposed insanity, Elodin is said to have "perfectly sane eyes", and his strange quirks may actually be a form of Blue-and-Orange Morality rather than outright craziness.
- He also recognizes Kvothe's shaed by sight.
- I'd say it's more likely that rather than being part Fae being a powerful Namer comes with certain side effects that gradually make one more like the Fae, because the "Sleeping Mind" gradually becomes more awake in Namers, while the Fae are more awake by default, which is why they have their strange magics. Or something like that.
- Indeed. If it wants to cause as much disaster as possible, it would make more sense to instead cultivate a reputation for being helpful, so as to have more access to people. It would even make sense to actually be helpful most of the time, to make it seem like consulting it is a reasonable thing to do, even if it's been known to backfire once in a while. Given its ability to pull off a Gambit Roulette, it should certainly be capable of at least appearing to be blameless for whatever occurs, should it so choose.
- Its not omnipotent, just very manipulative and dangerous. There's only so much you can do with the possibilities available. And if its not bothering to pretend to be helpful, it must have seen that people would catch on eventually and there would be fewer people in the long run. Whereas now it has the twofold appeal of Beware the Honest Ones (if its Obviously Evil and tells you so it seems more believable) and forbidden fruit (well, flowers).
- No, it doesn't quite work out that way - you are assuming that Cthaeh is wise, which we know fae tend not to be. Normally, the worst possible outcome will be much worse than the worst possible outcome that doesn't implicate Cthaeh, and a wise person might pick the second, but an unwise and cruel one will pick the first. Best to think of it as if he was the perfect computer playing chess (infinite depth search). You play against it, and it will min-max the most brutal victory it can find. Yes, it might put you off playing again, and so might others, but the computer doesn't know any better.
- I thought it was referring to a book or information in the archives, it would be cool if it was Jax behind that four panel door.
- Actually, the Cthaeh said that the Maer had come close to the Amyr without realizing it, that sticking by the Maer would lead Kvothe to "their door", and that Kvothe would one day understand the joke it just made. I'm guessing that "their door" is the Lockless Box, or something like that...
- An alternate guess was that Caudicus is Denna's patron, but with one dead but the other still trotting, this seems Jossed.
- I'm slvstrChung, and I approve this message. After posting my review, I got to thinking about how the Cthaeh can be woven into the ongoing tapestry of Kvothe's life. And, in rereading, I noticed that it segues over to Denna voluntarily. If what Bast says of the Cthaeh is true, it will deliberately try to hit Kvothe's Berserk Buttons, whether Kvothe is aware they are Berserk Buttons or not. It mentions that Cinder did terrible things to Kvothe's mother, so evidently the forces of evil are best served by there being a blood feud there. And it mentions Denna's patron, so...
- Obviously it's not enough to know the simple pronounciation of a name to call it. As Master Namer says, one must know a thing completely to call it. And yet, knowing the true name must mean something. Perhaps the very strength of iron comes from the cumulative effect of many humans calling by name and shaping it to their will.
- Perhaps this is also the reason the Fae folk and demons cannot tolerate iron; humans have cumulatively called iron to protect themselves from demons. In effect, Chronicler was just amplifying a name that the whole human race has been calling.
- It'd be interesting to see if different languages use the same word for iron, or just Aturan.
- Another thing this suggests is that names are actually shouted and not mumbled; it's just that human memory records it as mumbling because the waking mind cannot comprehend and remember the names for very long. However, since everyone can at least recognize the Name of Iron, waking minds can remember it as a shout.
- When Dal calls fire, it sounds to Kvothe like the word 'fire', shouted as a command. Perhaps it's just a sort of instinctive translation carried out by the sleeping mind. Certainly it's implied that not anyone saying 'iron' would Name iron.
- True, but maybe it's also true for Fire for the same reason. Note that Fire is another thing that "demons" (read: The Fair Folk) fear, along with Iron and the name of Tehlu. So the two Names we've seen pronounced happen to be the two tangible things demons fear.
- I'd go for instinctive translation. In many stories (Digger for one) true names can't really be heard.
- This is pretty explicitly explained. Kvothe asks Dal, "That's it? The name of fire is fire?", and Dal replies, "That's not what I actually said. Some part of you just filled in a familiar word." So yeah, instinctive translation.
- Let's remember when Kvothe calls the wind in the first book. Elodin makes him repeat the name, Simmon listen them saying "Wind", not the actual name of the Wind. Second, when the Chronicler calls the Iron, Kote listens in a way that resembles Elodin, "having some sort of ressonance". It is just that Kvothe doesn't know the Name of Iron.
- There was also Lorren's reaction when Kvothe requested books on the Amyr and Chandrian during his first visit to the Archives, which was to demand why he was searching, then gently steer him away. And his earlier one when he found out Kvothe was Arliden's son, which was one of the few times he has shown any emotion. The first time he got Kvothe alone after that, he started fishing for the patron of the troupe Arliden played with. It's been repeatedly beaten into our heads that the Amyr were not nice people; it's entirely possible a wrong answer from Kvothe would have meant an 'accident' for those involved.
- Lorren also suspended Kvothe when Kvothe snapped at students for being loud in the Archives. However, at that time Kvothe was also reading a book that might have held evidence of the Amyr. The book was not listed in the Ledgers (and thus would have escaped any purge), and Kvothe was excitedly telling his theory to Sim until he noticed Lorren behind him. It's not known how long Lorren was standing there, he might only have suspended Kvothe to have an excuse to take the book.
- Stretching a little further into Epileptic Trees, was Lorren really going to Tarbean for school supplies, as he noted during Kvothe's first admission? It touches on 'a little too convenient', and another WMG-suggested member of the Amyr (Skarpi) had recently run into some trouble there. Also possibly worth noting is that Lorren's seen the inscription in Kvothe's copy of Rhetoric and Logic (which is a little cryptic on its own)- the inscription validates Kvothe's claim, but is never brought up again after his admissions, despite Lorren acquiring the book. When and why did Lorren's attitude shift from friendly and helpful towards Kvothe, to outright obstructive and unforthcoming? Food for thought.
- Considering the next book is tentatively titled "The Doors of Stone", it's possible that Kvothe instead frees Iax from his prison, who promptly restarts the Creation War.
- Perhaps Iax is the Penitent King. Keep in mind that Newarre was part of a commonwealth not more than a few years before the framing story. Where did this king come from? Maybe it was Iax, who, regretting his role in starting the Creation War, is now trying to make it "better" by restoring the moon to its rightful owner.
- Maybe the Chandrian are trying to die and the only way they can do that is if everyone in the world forgets who they are. They gain strength from their name, but don't want it. Lanre can only reunite with his love by dying, which he can't do - unless, perhaps, he is forgotten.
- In Wise Mans Fear, it's mentioned that the Chandrian strike when there is no moon or one of their signs is the veiling of the moon. Fae connection, amiright?
- But also, Greystones are said to be protection from the Chandrian (child's poem in the being of Name Of The Wind), and they are also clearly connected to the Fae (Kvothe leaves Felurian from some Greystones, Skarpi's story mentions the enemy being "set beyond the doors of stone"). Perhaps the Chandrian were also cast out by the Fae?
- Perhaps Lanre/Chandrian were initially gifted with powers by the Fae to betray the humans (Lanre would have turned traitor in order to try and find some way of resurrecting Lyra), but later the Fae realized what they had created and cursed them and cast them out.
- But Haliax was cast into shadow by Selitos... wouldn't this mean that the Amyr cursed the Chandrian?
- Perhaps Lanre/Chandrian were initially gifted with powers by the Fae to betray the humans (Lanre would have turned traitor in order to try and find some way of resurrecting Lyra), but later the Fae realized what they had created and cursed them and cast them out.
- Ok, so, Lyra dies, and Lanre, who has gone a little mad and is looking for a way to save her as she saved him, betrays the Men and turns to the Fae, who give him the power of unending life - but not the power to retrieve life. In return for this, Lanre must betray Myr Tariniel.
- But also, Lanre gets skill with naming, something he did not have before - perhaps something the Fae did fused Lyra and Lanre together, which was what crafted Haliax? Or perhaps Lanre murdered Lyra in order to gain her power - for some reason? (After all, "My wife is dead. Deceit and treachery brought me to it, but her death is on my hands." -Lanre, Not W, p.179)
- Wait - what if Lanre sought advice from the Cthaeh as to how to bring his wife back, and that sent him on this worst possible path?
- Bast did explicitly say when Kvothe brought up the Cthaeh that both Iax and Lanre had spoken to it(Iax before trying to steal the moon and kicking off the Creation War, Lanre before betraying and attempting to murder... well everyone) so that's either comfirmed or really close.
- But also, Lanre gets skill with naming, something he did not have before - perhaps something the Fae did fused Lyra and Lanre together, which was what crafted Haliax? Or perhaps Lanre murdered Lyra in order to gain her power - for some reason? (After all, "My wife is dead. Deceit and treachery brought me to it, but her death is on my hands." -Lanre, Not W, p.179)
- I don't think all of the Chandrian were human - if the Tehlin creation story is a metaphor for the creation war, it says that the first seven who denied Tehlu's choice of path were all human save one (Encanis/Haliax/Lanre) but some of the others had demons hiding within them - possibly some of the Chandrian are actually Fae.
- That's an interesting idea, and could very well be true. Cinder is explicitly mentioned to not really move like a human, his motions are constantly compared to mercury/quicksilver and that sense of... otherness syncs up very nicely with what we know about the fae(Bast has the single colour eyes and the hooves, Felurian has a few things, but probably the most interesting is the meta one: not one of her sentences begins with a capital letter (except when they start with "I" but that doesn't count) which is very strange).
The modern city of Tinuë (which is marked on the Four Corners map) is probably not the same city, however. First of all, Shehyn claimed that the city that survived the Betrayal was eventually lost in time. Second, there's a better candidate. The modern Tinuë probably named itself after the idiom (so that their tourism development committee could create the slogan, "Tinuë: All roads come here!").
The old Tinuë is probably none other than our University, and it's remains form the Underthing. Think about it: during the bleakest hour of the Creation war, Tinusa's residents likely hid themselves underground. With that refuge to regroup, they are able to turn the tide and finally capture Iax, ending the war. As they transport Iax back to Tinuë for imprisonment, citizens taunt him by asking, "How is the road to Tinuë?", and finally he is sealed (as Felurian says) behind doors of stone (the stone doors in the Archives).
- There is also a bit of possible foreshadowing towards another option. First was Kvothe's "Good, I need a place to burn" when he first visited the Eolian. There was also Stanchion's sarcastic remark, "this isn't the kind of surprise that's going to [...] make folk set my place on fire?" when Kvothe played the prank with Bell-Wether and Tintatatornin. So it's also possible that Kvothe was the one doing the destroying.
- 1. Despite Kvothe's mistaken first impression, the Cthaeh is not a tree, but a being imprisoned in a tree.
- Bast says it cannot leave its tree, and at one point Kvothe sees something moving behind the branches.
- 2. The tree is made of Roah wood.
- The smell of citrus and spice is mentioned every time either is present in the story.
- 3. Roah contains natural iron.
- This one is a bit of a stretch. When Bast is trying his hardest to open the thrice-locked chest, he mentions he doesn't like the wood. He also never tries to use the power he demonstrated over wood earlier to open it, which might make sense if iron prevents fae magic. Not to mention the chest weighs several hundred pounds empty. This theory would also mean that the discussion about natural iron after finding the draccus scale transforms from detailed world-building to an incredible Chekhov's Gun.
- 4. The Cthaeh is probably in constant agony.
- In this setting, fae have the traditional weakness to iron. The name of iron binds them, and something as small as a needle is described as like 'little slivers of hate' by Bast. Don't forget that the touch of iron made the skin walker in the first book scream in agony, whereas being stabbed multiple times only made it laugh.
- 5. The above means escape for the Cthaeh is nigh impossible with the current state of affairs. The tree is described as massive. Without magic, it would take ages to free the Cthaeh, and the Sithe would be sure to stop any attempt; remember, Bast was amazed that it managed to talk to Kvothe for mere minutes without being caught.
So what does the Cthaeh do? It improvises. It has a perfect grasp of what will happen for each potential action, meaning we have to look at the results of those it did take. Each person we know of who talked to the Cthaeh ended up greatly weakening the world. Iax started the Creation War, splitting the Fae and mortal realms. Lanre betrayed Selitos, and the last of the Seven Cities fell (and the relics that survive show technology/magic levels plummeted into oblivion after this). Kvothe, if some of the theories above are correct, started a war involving the Fae.
What does the Cthaeh get out of all this? It's probably safe to say it wasn't done just for the hell of it (though malice probably played a part. You don't go to these kind of lengths to imprison something that's all rainbows and sunshine). But the main effect of each of these events was a weakening of the world, of the mages, of the Sithe, bringing escape that much closer.
- Another possibility is that The Cthaeh's plan to getting freedom is by trying to get the one who bound him to the tree freed so he can undo it. That being is Iax (if we interpret The Cthaeh as the Tinker in Jax's story, who left him only the Broken House, which would be the tree). If the third book's title is any indication, The Cthaeh will succeed in that, at least.
- More interesting is that Auri gives Kvothe several gifts, some of the more interesting are 1) the aforementioned key, 2) A candle she apparently made herself, and 3) a coin (he got this instead of a feather): "It was shaped like an Aturan penance piece, but it gleamed silver in the moonlight. I'd never seen a coin like it". Now keep in mind that the famous stories of Taborlin mention his tools: coin, key, and candle (first story from Cob in NOTW, Martin's story in WMF). Coincidence??
- She specifically says it opens the Moon. What else has the moon been referenced in, hmm?
- Don't forget he's already destroyed one tree—the bandits' tree, which he destroyed with lightning.
- It's true, and the title of the chapter where he destroys it is "Flame, Thunder, Broken Tree." But something tells me that won't be the last time we see his Ademre name; after all, he said "prophetic" and that happened before he went to Adem.
- I don't think he'll destroy The Cthaeh; in the framing device, Bast talks about it in the present tense. I doubt that the Price of Twilight wouldn't be aware of something as big as The Cthaeh's destruction.
Jax leaves the broken house to the tinker (Iax tricks the Cthaeh into taking his place in the tree? note ) and walks for a long time until encountering a hermit (an old Namer, possibly Aleph). The hermit tells Jax about listening to things (learning the Names of things) and helps Jax to see what's inside the third bag (hidden powers the Cthaeh implanted in Iax's mind). There is an empty box (power over Names once known, but not the power to discover), a folded house (power over Shaping, or some kind of Applied Phlebotinum to use for Shaping), and a whistle (power to disturb the places of things, or power over Shaping).
Once Jax knows what these items are, he takes leave of the hermit and finds a place on the highest of peaks to unfold the house (the Faen realm). The house doesn't unfold correctly and is different in ways from the real world, there are places where the sun always shines and where it is always night, or always summer or always winter (Dayward and Nightward, Summerward and Winterward in Faen).
Jax goes to the precipice and plays the whistle (reaches across the sky to steal the moon), and captures the name of the moon in a box, but only part of it (Iax wasn't powerful enough to keep the moon in Faen).
If indeed the Adem are not human, there are two interesting possibilities: 1. that the Adem are the Amyr, and 2. that the Adem ideas on reproduction are correct, for them.
- That would explain why they are free of disease - they were around before diseases like those, and never bred with 'barbarians'. Also explains why they're so confident in themselves being the 'real' civilization, and the Western culture as barbaric - they were around when the other societies were barbarians.
- Rothfuss has said he wasn't trying to tell a fantasy story in the vein of 'hero defeats bad guys,' and this is evident in the book's more biographical nature.
- There's simply not enough space left in the story for that sort of encounter. It will end with whatever events led to the war and Kvothe's faked death.
- When Kvothe speaks the names of the Chandrian, he says he is not worried about bringing them to him because they won't be able to pinpoint his location from a single mention, and also says that enough people must be telling stories about them at the moment that they should already be hearing their names constantly. The fact that they are still out there, capable of hearing their names spoken, is apparently not in dispute.
- Sim and Ambrose are great opposites. Both sons of dukes but Ambrose is first and Sim is last. One is friend to Will and Kvothe the other antagonises them. Both want Fela, both are poets. If this is true then I agree Ambrose is the Penitant King Kvothe refuses to toast. But what really makes me think of Sim as THE poet is the ring poem Aaron says. He pauses, causing a ceasura, a break in the line which Kvothe finishes.
- Early in WMF, she turns up wanting to know how magic works, because "someone" told her something about it that she wants to verify. During her and Kvothe's final conversation in that book, her speech has developed the same kind of eccentricity, with nonsensical statements that seem to hint at some deeper truth, that we see in Auri and Puppet. She's studying magic, and her mind is cracking a bit from it, as sometimes happens to arcanists. However, since Denna is surely as mentally strong as any of the students we see at the University, who do not show any such mental faultlines, this seems to suggest that she is being taught by someone who isn't being overly cautious with her sanity. Denna's patron is a mysterious figure who may well be in some manner supernatural, and has shown strong signs of regarding her as a disposable tool to be freely used and carelessly risked.
- She asked that question during or soon after her relationship with Ambrose. I assumed he was making stuff up to impress her or that the two were somehow otherwise related.
- We know both the Amyr and the Chandrian are obsessed with what is written about them, and from what Denna has asked about "a magic where you write things down and they come true", which she has probably heard about from her patron who is probably a Chandrian, it's clear that some stories in this world have special power. So... it seems a bit unlikely Kvothe is just telling a story because he's worried what people will think about him.
- So Kvothe telling his story is him playing the same game the Amyr and Chandrian are. He's being very controlling of Chronicler writing down exactly what he says, and he's only telling what he wants to tell. And he's probably lying, considering how awesome he apparently was.
- Also consider his boast about the Ruh being the greatest storytellers the world has ever known at the beginning of telling his story - if it's a game of stories, he thinks he can win.
- There's also the story he makes up about Chronicler: what he writes in your book about you becomes true, if he knows your name.
- Skarpi's Creation War story:
- Selitos was betrayed by Lanre(Haliax). Haliax did this because of some kind of curse/debt owed for his newfound power. Selitos is pissed at Haliax.
- Aleph offers a choice to his followers to follow him and take the power he gives them to use in the name of Justice. Aleph says Selitos must put aside his personal grievance against Lanre to do so. Selitos rejects the offer and starts the Amyr, to oppose Lanre and "for the greater good".
- Tehlu is the first to volunteer to Aleph, and becomes his first and greatest angel in the name of Justice.
- This could also be seen as a semi-parallel to the Tehlu story told to Kvothe by the old man in Tarbean. Tehlu(Aleph, Tehlu's creator) offered a choice to Encanis(Selitos) to repent and join him, Encanis(Selitos) rejected the offer. Some followed Encanis(Selitos).
- Gibea (the in-universe equivalent of Dr. Mengelev) had ties with the Amyr and performed his slaughter "for the greater good"
- The Amyr attempt to control all information regarding themselves and the Chandrian, possibly to subvert people's understanding of who's good or bad.
- The Tehlin church shut down the Amyr approx. 300 years ago. Remember, Tehlu himself was stated to be an angel of justice. If Selitos led the Amyr down an evil path, it seems likely that Tehlu would step in to stop them.
- Denna's song about Lanre paints him as a tragic hero, betrayed/tricked by Selitos. True? It seems likely that her patron is connected with the Chandrian, if not one himself. It also seems likely that Denna herself is looking into the Chandrian as well which would explain her odd choice of patron.
- When Nina gives the painting to Kvothe, she says the Amyr is the scariest one, and tried to anchor him with Tehlu's name.
- They have tattoos of blood, come on people!
Also keep in mind that we have no direct evidence that the Chandrian killed anyone. Kvothe assumes they killed his parents because they were in his camp when he came back. Same at the wedding in Trebon. However, it is entirely possible that the Amyr killed all these people, and the Chandrian had come later possibly to gather info/look for something/some less sinister purpose. It could be that the Amyr are the truly evil ones and perform feats of destruction to give the Chandrian a bad name. Perhaps they do not want people to join Haliax in whatever cause it is he's fighting for (which would coincide with Selitos' hatred of Lanre/Haliax and his stated desire to ruin everything Lanre does).
- One thing to point out here is that according to the Cthaeh, Cinder did indeed torture Kvothe's mother, and considering she died, presumably to death. And the Cthaeh has been confirmed to never lie from at least two presumably reliable sources(Felurian and Bast).
However as far as how this relates to the story:It does seem likely that the Amyr have some ties to the University (possibly Lorren) to control the information there. So that would mean they also control the door, which seems likely to house something related to the Creation War (Jax possibly) or to the Chandrian (Lyra?). Therefore they are attempting to stop the Chandrian from getting to the door and releasing/using whatever is within. Possibly to evil ("greater good") ends.
- Also, she dislikes moonless nights - when the Fae are further away from the mortal world
- Actually, she has a problem with being in moonlight - when the Fae Realm is closer - so, per this theory, it could be some kind of call back to the Fae, but may just be that she doesn't want to encounter any Faeries.
- Taborlin uses Naming to break through the rock walls of his cell, land safely from a great height by calling the wind, and burn down the huge wooden doors to the King's hall.
- When Scyphus's guards are reluctant, the King declares he will fight Taborlin himself using wizardry.
- Most notably, the story ends after Taborlin calls lightning and fire to smite forty guards, but before the fight with King Scyphus himself.
So the stories we've heard about Taborlin come from two sources: 1) Old Cob and 2) Kvothe himself (from Unreliable Narrator standpoint). All of Taborlin's stories are eerily similar to Kvothe himself:
- Taborlin has a "cloak of no particular color", Kvothe has his shadow cloak.
- Taborlin's tools were key, candle, and coin. Kvothe has received all 3 of these as gifts from Auri.
- Taborlin had great power over names. Kvothe has great power over names...
- Taborlin fights a mad king (as described above). Kvothe is a king killer.
Since it seems likely at some point that Kvothe changed his true name, it seems feasible that somewhere along the line stories of Kvothe himself are now stories of Taborlin. It's possible Kvothe knows this and still talks of Taborlin as a separate person, or he doesn't know.
Now you might ask, well then how come there are still stories of Kvothe if they've been turned into stories of Taborlin. Well this likely stems from the fact that all the stories of Taborlin are heroic, whereas Kvothe sees himself as anything but. So if he did change his name and somehow separate out these entities, then the stories of "just Kvothe" would remain apart.
Either that or Rothfuss just has lots of fun with Chekov's guns
- Unlikely, as Elodin invokes the legend of Taborlin the Great the first time he takes Kvothe up into the Rookery, including mentioning the key, coin and candle.
The ground zero where the chunk of land was taken from is possibly the Reft, a body of water on the Four Corners map south of Tarbean. "Reft" is an archaic English past participle of the word "reave", which means "to steal", so the name fits. Another possibility is the Eld, which seems to have more Faerie activity than other parts of the Four Corners, and is near the center of the map.
- We know there is some sort of civil war that has some how been caused be Kvothe.
- Kvothe spends a slightly odd few pages playing a prank on Ambroise, faking a letter from from a woman saying "the baby is yours"
- According to Stapes, there were already rumours about Meluan being pregnant by the time Kvothe got back
- Kvothe has said something along the lines of "not being keen to fight if you knew what the war was really about".
- Maybe the princess Kvothe rescues is the baby? Don't know how that fits with "sleeping barrow king", though, unless Jakis' has an odd bed.
- Penitent king? A bit of stretch but it seems unlikely he's penitent for murder or something. Penitent for sex out of wedlock, maybe.
- “Only priests and fools are fearless and I've never been on the best of terms with God.” -Kvothe (Not even remotely Jesus.)
- That's actually very much like Jesus in some stories.
In any case, there's too much mystery around Auri for her to not have some serious significance, rather than her just simply being some half-cracked former University student- her aversion to some questions, knowledge of the Amyr, her mystery light source, her gifts to Kvothe, the fact that Kvothe gave her her name and doesn't know why he picked it (and remember, names have great significance in this series), Elodin's reaction to her (and the fact that he offers to let Kvothe in his class only after meeting him and Auri)... feel free to add all the more.
- One more thing that could support your theory - In NOTW, Kvothe mentions that, in his heart, he thinks of Auri as his "little moon-fae", and it's pretty well established throughout this page that Kvothe is unusually good at unintended attributions when giving names or nicknames
- Personally, however, I think the opposite is true; Auri is or is some part of or is related to the SUN, rather than the moon.
- First of all, her name is straight-up stated to mean "sun". On top of that, she's frequently described as bright and cheerful, in other words she has a "sunny" personality (yeah ok this one's kind of a stretch). Finally, why might she not like to go out when the moon is out (other than its connection to the Fae)? Because she in some way represents the sun, and knows that they shouldn't both be out 'on top of things' at the same time.
- SIDE NOTE: I recommend reading The Slow Regard of Silent Things if you want more insight into Auri, there might be things there that help or hurt one or both of our theories, I don't remember it well enough off the top of my head to bring anything up, but I don't see anyone talking about anything that happens in it anywhere on this page (also it's just a good little melancholy read, and Rothfuss' story in the afterword is hilarious).
This seems fairly evident. He's mentioned in the first dozen or so pages of the book, in connection with Chronicler, and Kvothe takes note of it. He immediately fastens onto Kvothe's request for Lanre's story out of the crowd in Tarbean, tells it, and surely observes that the story holds significance to Kvothe afterwards, when they talk. He tells a heretical story that touches on the possible origins of the Amyr. He laughs off the threat of being tried for heresy, states he has powerful friends in the church (surely doable for a powerful undercover organization that used to be tied to the church), and specifically talks at Kvothe even as he's being arrested. Why would he bother doing that for some random member of his story audience? I'll go a little farther and suggest that his story hours are an important part of his 'job'; spreading true stories (or alternatively, what he wants to be seen as the truth) among the impressionable youth, rather than the Tehlin church's accepted doctrine or something like Denna's song that puts a different spin on the story of Lanre.
Vashet mentions the 'poet king' she served for four years in the Small Kingdoms multiple times. Seems a bit of an odd detail to surface more than once... unless it's foreshadowing. Now take Kvothe, the 'Kingkiller', and the fact that people called his sword Caesura 'Kaysera', the 'poet-killer'...
So it's clear that Kote is not entirely Kvothe. Like he locked part of his mind away. Can't fight, can't do magic. Changed his name to Disaster.
But that's a little too... ethereal for this magic system. I have an idea, though.
The thrice-locked chest is sympathetically bound with the locked-off part of Kvothe's mind (sadly, the part that could open the box). Inside this is an item sympathetically bound to Kvothe's Name.
Think about how Kvothe restores himself twice in the series. Both times, he plays a song to return to himself. Missing in the frame story is his lute.
Because it's in the chest. When he opens the chest (because, come on, he will), he will have his lute back, and the song he plays will restore the locked part of his mind.
Commence day-saving.
- In the stories Kvothe made up about the Chronicler he mentions a king who protects his name in a book of glass, box of copper, and chest of iron. 2/3 (maybe even 3/3) for the thrice-locked chest
The Ademic word for the Chandrian is "Rhinta". Enscribed above the doors of the Archives is "Vorfelan Rhinata Morie" which translates to "Knowledge SHAPES a man." Not sure how Iax who seems not to be Haliax but is considered the greatest of the Shapers ties into this though, or Encanis and the seven that refused Menda's offer from Trapis' story.
- I think you've got this backwards. The two factions in the Creation war can be seperated into an active faction, The Shapers, and a passive faction, the Knowers. 'Knowledge Shapes a Man' is the passive, not the active. I'd guess that Iax, the Shaper, is behind the other door on the Lackless estate, and whatever is behind the four-plate door is related to the Knowers. Indeed, I'd wager that Kvothe has been mislead by the Chteah in assuming just this, and he's going to open the wrong door.
- However, the Knowers were apparently the aggressors in the Creation War. Since the Eight Cities were on the defensive, it would follow that they are allied with the Shapers, which would mean that when the Chandrian betrayed the cities they realigned themselves with the Knowers. So they very well could have been some of the original Shapers. However it's probably way more complicated than that. I would guess that "Rhinta" doesn't mean "Shapers" but "Shapees", those who have been shaped, and it refers to the signs that they were cursed with.
- In Skarpi's story, the enemy of the people defending the Eight Cities was locked beyond the doors of stone, so the ones on the defensive there were very much the Knowers. The Chandrian's betrayal came about long after Iax had been imprisoned and the war had ended.
- However, the Knowers were apparently the aggressors in the Creation War. Since the Eight Cities were on the defensive, it would follow that they are allied with the Shapers, which would mean that when the Chandrian betrayed the cities they realigned themselves with the Knowers. So they very well could have been some of the original Shapers. However it's probably way more complicated than that. I would guess that "Rhinta" doesn't mean "Shapers" but "Shapees", those who have been shaped, and it refers to the signs that they were cursed with.
- I think the Shapers are the precursors of the fairies (they made the Fae after all) while the Knowers are the precursors of humans. The Chandrian are, like Skarpi and Shelyn's stories tell, Knowers who betrayed the others, led by Lanre.
In his introduction, he is described as having white hair and dark eyes... the dark eyes and 'owlish look' are mentioned repeatedly later on. His colours, are also referred to as not really being colours, but simply being 'ash grey and charcoal dark'. The preceeding paragraph is one where Kvothe is describing how he can affect the style of a blooded noble despite not being one, and how Bredon has the look of a blooded noble. This would also account for Denna being easy to find when she's in the same city as her patron. It would also explain several of the Chteah's statements, such as the Maer would certainly have been in close contact with the Chandrian... with one living in his court. There's also a large number of horrible puns throughout Wise Man's Fear if this is true, particularly one where Kvothe says he was within 'stone's throw' of the man who killed his parents, which would be one of the worst puns in history, and there is no way Mr. Rothfuss would pass up such a glorious opportunity.
In Trapis' story about Tehlu, it's mentioned as a strange aside that Tehlu's iron wheel upon which he kills Encanis and himself has a "terrible" name, "and none could speak it". Presumably Tehlu's craft makes it into a partially divine object, outside the realm of physical matter and outside the realm of naming.
So why is that significant enough to be a part of the story? Well, it would be a short leap to guess every iron wheel retains some of that Tehlurian aspect. Maybe Haliax, who can't forget the name of anything, can only be defeated with a big old iron wheel in the head. Hey, it worked on the draccus.
It's a really tall hill where you can see thirty miles in every direction - except for that one hill that gets in the way in exactly one direction. The high hill is where Myr Tariniel used to stand, and the one tower with a better vantage point is where Selitos' tower used to stand.
Plus they found some really cool pottery pertaining to the Chandrian in what Kvothe thinks was once some kind of hill fort. The place clearly has some significance to the Chandrian (and/or Haliax).
Lyra called Lanre's true name three times before he returned from the dead and was compelled to live again by the use of his true name. If there was some kind of delay between the calling of a name and the person's reanimation, then Haliax has to be killed three times - once per name call. Kill him once, and Lyra still called his name to return him from the dead. Kill him twice, and he has one more life. Kill him a third time and he's gone for good.
Ostensibly, Felurian's story covers the events leading to the Creation War, whereas Skarpi and Shehyn's stories cover the events at the end of the war. A careful reading shows us that there is almost no overlap between Felurian's story with the other two. Not only are there almost no details in common (the only exception being the name of the city Murella), there is also a lack of common themes. Felurian talks about a divide between Knowers and Shapers, but that theme does not play into Skarpi's story. In fact, the agents in the story don't seem to fall along this divide at all. Selitos seems to be a Knower but Lyra seems to be a Shaper, yet they're allies.
The reason for this? Felurian and Skarpi are talking about two different wars. The Creation War, the one Skarpi and Shehyn talk of, came first. The Chandrian betrayed seven cities, but one city survived: Murella. Murella went on to defeat tha Chandrian (relegating them to attacking in secrecy) and win the Creation War. This is why the knower Selitos speaks of shapers Lyra, Iax, and Aleph as if they were allies: they were. Knowing vs. Shaping wasn't a thing yet.
Later on, the Shapers started shaping stuff. We know Murella was the surviving city because it was still around when Felurian sat on its walls eating shaped silver fruit (this explains why Murella had walls before the war: they had been built for the earlier Creation War). Eventually the shapers created Faen but Iax stole the moon and that led to a second war of Knowers vs Shapers.
Now, we also have Bast saying, "Iax spoke to the Cthaeh before he stole the moon and that led to the Creation War", but come on, do we really trust Bast?
For one, the number of bandits was quite large — it surprised even the Maer who thought that 4 people would be sufficient to put down the bandits.Second, the tall fencepoles scattered throughout the camp. Both Kvothe and Tempi thought they were unusual, but didn't have time to speculate about them. However, the fact that he noticed them at all seems like P. R. was trying to draw our attention to them. And they could be connected to the third clue, the fact that Kvothe's lightning bolt pretty much exploded the entire camp. That's definitely unusual behavior for lightning — perhaps the reason the explosion was so massive is that it hit some sort of magical construct that Cinder was building.Finally, if this was just some sort of plan to destabilize the country/world, the presence of one of the Chandrian seems a little excessive. Cinder could have easily hired 20 bandits to waylay tax collectors and then go about his weird evil business. The fact that he was personally supervising the endeavor implies that it was very important.
- She's been exposed to it once already.
- She has perfectly white teeth (Kvothe keeps going on about how white her smile is - that's not just poetic license; that's foreshadowing)
- She has a patron who beats her frequently, but she keeps coming back to.
- You can't reason with an addict.
- Denner Resin is an opiate painkiller. It can make the beatings stop hurting.
- Kvothe is the son of Natalia Lackless, making him an heir of the true blood, and thus capable of opening the Loeclos Box.
- The Loeclos box is the same box from the Jax story, meaning it contains the Name of the Moon (or at least a part of it - enough that Kvothe would certainly try to find the rest once he got the first part).
- Kvothe breaks his vow to Denna, and all the things he swore by stop working: His Power, his good left hand, and the ever-changing moon.
We know that the moon travels between Faerie and the human realm. If Kvothe knows the Moon's True Name, he has power over it, and if he forces it to stop changing, he could theoretically force a unification of the two realms, allowing Scrael and other nasties access to the human world.
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