Headscratchers / Dragon Ball Other

• Ok, how come while the characters are getting stronger by millions of times over the course of the series, the ki blasts aren't noticeably bigger, except for energy balls and attacks specifically meant for Earth-Shattering Kaboom. I mean Vegeto's one-handed Kamehameha wasn't big, but it roasted Buu so much that he couldn't regenerate and it was incredibly luminous.
  • They are focusing their power as much as they can because that's what's most effective. Think of ki like weaponized water (work with me) no matter how much water you have available you still want it coming out in as tight a pattern as possible if you want it to hurt someone. Dumping an entire pool of water on top of someone doesn't have quite the same effect as a fire hose even if the amounts of water are the same.
  • They also have to hold back. By even the Frieza saga a stray Ki blast from most members of the cast should be blowing up whatever planet that they are on.

• If Namekians only require water to survive why did they evolve teeth? nature is pretty simple when it comes down to it: You only evolve something that you, at some point in time, needed for a reason. A diet that consists solely of liquid = No requirement to possess teeth capable of chewing solid food. That's how it works.
  • No, that's not at all how evolution works. Evolution isn't creating traits that a species needs, it's weeding out traits that are detrimental to a species. Namekians would only have lost the teeth, once they had them, if it became overwhelmingly advantageous to not have teeth. You've got the whole thing backward.
    • True but it still doesn't explain how a species that requires nothing but liquid would have developed teeth in the first place. Did they have a common ancestor that ate food?
    • Because at some point, an ancestor mutated to have teeth, and that adaptation proved advantageous. Possibly to fight off predators. Or maybe the species they evolved from didn't always subsist entirely on water. Again: Evolution does not work on the basis of, "I need to do this, so I'll evolve that." It works on the basis of, "Well, this random mutation isn't keeping me from reproducing, so I guess it stays."
    • That's not exactly correct. It's closer to "this random mutation is helping me reproduce, WINNING." than "this isn't hurting, might as well keep it." As to the original question, out of universe it's because Namekians were a retcon just like Saiyans. Before Dragon Ball Z made Goku and Piccolo into aliens they were the Monkey King from Journey to the West and a Demon. In-Universe lots of things could have happened. My personal theory is that the drought that nearly wiped them out was not at all uncommon, and at one point Namekians had to chew cactus or other similar plants to extract the fluids inside.
    • Pedantic moment here: I think evolution simply works as follows: ‘This random mutation is either helping me reproduce, or not keeping me from reproducing, so it stays.’ With the Namekians, clearly the teeth isn’t getting in their way of making more offsprings, and it even helps them survive in close-quarter combat (i.e., biting — imagine Goku having Namekian teeth when he bites into, say, Frieza or Whis.)
  • Speaking of the Namekians only drink water thing; is there any way realistically this could work? are there enough nutrients and minerals in water to theoretically sustain a 6ft humanoid creature? As I understand it even bacteria need food in order to survive.
    • Photosynthesis.
    • Or Namek just has nutrients dissolved in its oceans. Piccolo does mention eating multiple times, so it could be different from Earth's water.

• Am I the only one confused about how aging works in Dragon Ball? Exacerbated by Dragon Ball Online, Goku and Vegeta apparently leave together for one last fight in the year 801, Goku is 64 (physically 57) and Vegeta is 69 (physically 70/71) and they know their "time is coming to an end". The problem is that in DBZ it's fairly consistent that more skilled/stronger fighters live extremely long lives (eg: Master Roshi, Master Shen, Taopaipai, Kami...) as well as the fact that Saiyans age slower than humans. Putting these factors together wasn't Goku and Vegeta's demise a bit of a waste? Or maybe they aren't quite dead?
  • Something I would really like to know regarding aging in this universe is if these guys have so much power in their bodies, that they can destroy planets and caused explosions the size of a nuclear bomb on a whim, then how is it that they are subjected to the mortality of a regular human being. We die at around 80 on average because we humans are fragile, these fighters have incredible amounts of energy flowing through their body which logically should make them live for hundreds of years.
    • There is no true evidence that Ki is linked to longevity - in fact, if you factor in the strain of all that energy and all that damage from all of their battles I find it surprising that they don't die earlier. As for the examples given by the Original Poster: Saiyans are canonically stated to age differently to humans in that they don't feel the debilitating effects as early as us, Master Roshi canonically drank from the Fountain of Youth (despite his name it didn't actually restore his youth and thus locked him as an old man forever), Kami is a Namekian and they live hundreds of years. As for Krillin, Tien and Yamcha, they don't have a single canonical fight after Buu so we don't actually know how much energy they have lost over the years (and yes, Personal Continuity aside, Dragon Ball GT, Dragonball Online and any movies are not canon.)
    • I'd say Taopaipai and Shen are examples of longevity in the Dragon Ball world. Is the fountain of you... eh-hem.. anti-aging canon or was it a dub explanation?
    • I looked it up - In Manga canon it was an Immortality Elixir while in Anime canon it was a Fountain. In either case, his longevity is artificial. I think it's worth noting that we never see Shen beyond the original Dragon Ball and neither he nor Tao certainly should have been resurrected when Buu destroyed the Earth so we have no idea how long he lived/would have lived.
    • The original dragon ball arguably supports Shen's longevity since he was about the same age as Roshi. Baba is Roshi's older sister and she seems to be long-lived as well. Unless they all drank the elixir?
  • I would like to know why a race that naturally retains it youthfulness would live only as long as an average human. If their bodies are designed to avoid the effects of aging, they should live much longer, depending on how effective the body is at doing that. I was also under the assumption that Goku and Vegeta didn't leave because they were going to die anytime soon, but they were about to hit the point where their bodies were going to start declining from age and just wanted to go out in one last epic battle while they were still at their peak rather than slowly degrading their power and eventually dying in their beds.

• How the bloody hell can regular humans see the swift movements of the cast? It's very noticeable that the characters can move at such speed that they can have a rock-paper-scissors game without people noticing, and that was from the original Dragonball manga, plus characters after them are WAY faster. But in Z, they see punches, kicks, etc, that move several times the speed of sound, how does that work?
  • You can just file this one under Strong as They Need to Be. If Puny Humans need to be able to see the movements for Rule of Drama, they will.
  • I don't think they do. If you watch the Cell Saga, specifically the television coverage, I don't think the present humans are seeing anything more than flashes of light and hearing thunder clashes and turning in those directions as a reaction to the sounds. They make a point that even the Z fighters (minus Gohan) were having trouble keeping up with that fight. The only other fights with witnesses are the World Tournament and I'm willing to chalk that up to the boys holding back just enough to be seen. Or as stated above Strong as They Need to Be.

• The Saiyan's Zenkai ability to become stronger after a fight seems to be at first just noticeably significant, but then it becomes ridiculously exponential when their base power is close to the level where they can go Super Saiyan. Goku, Gohan and Vegeta get outrageous increases in power close to that point. Goku's power as per the Daizhenshuu guides went from 90,000 base to over 3,000,0000 after that healing following his fight with Ginyu, which is a 33 fold increase! However, after crossing Super Saiyan, it seems to just fade away. By the time they come to the point where they've mastered Super Saiyan, it has no noticeable effect, expect a sudden twist with Cell, whose power somehow reached close to Super Saiyan 2. Just how can that be explained?
  • Power levels are bulls***!
    • More specifically (and seriously): Daizhenshuu power levels are bulls***. It pretty much just makes them up as it goes, and shouldn't be taken as canon.

• Why are ki attacks allowed at the World Martial Arts tournament? There are only three rules that govern this tournament: No weapons or items of any kind (this is taken to the extreme that even head protection isn't allowed) unless they are part of the body (Piccolo's Namekian abilities, Giran's Merry-Go-Round Gum and even Goku's Great Ape would all count) no low blows and no falling outside the ring. Now, whilst it is arguable that the general population of the world knew of ki attacks during the 21st, it most certainly didn't know by the 25th. Hercule had played a large part in convincing the world ki is little more than smoke and mirrors. This presents a problem: even the smallest trick would logically require a smoke grenade/mirror/firework/jetpack... why aren't the judges constantly going for that blatant use of an illegal weapon/item you have hereby forfeited the match? If you had no knowledge of ki or magic, how would you interpret someone hovering or using the Kamehameha Wave? There is no way you wouldn't believe that Goku hadn't just broken the rules.
  • The judges, being fighting experts and being the same as for the 21st, did know. It was only the fighting-ignorant average joes that didn't know, and they had no bearing on decisions regarding the tournament.
  • Even if the judges weren't fighting experts (say if they got replaced or something) they'd still be unable to prove that the rules were being broken. Even if it seems like a rule is being broken, they still hold the burden of proof.

• Why could Piccolo Daimaoh eat food when Namekians can only drink water?
  • Food is decadence when water and sunlight are all you need. Surely the great Demon King Piccolo has time to enjoy a snack now and then?
    • When did Daimaoh eat food, btw? This troper can't remember.
    • He didn't really eat food, but when he seized the Earth's king palace he had his henchman order some grotesque food for him, spider legs and stuff.
    • Anime-only event, not canon. Outside of swallowing some (Dragon)balls, neither Piccolo Daimaoh, Piccolo Jr, nor Kami are ever shown eating anything.
    • YMMV on Manga to Anime canon. During the few episodes dedicated to the Z Fighters training to kill the Androids, it is shown that Piccolo was living with Goku's family for a brief time. During which the only food they ever ate was fish due to some constant Daddy-Son bonding time. Piccolo is shown explicitly stating that he not only eats the fish but is getting bloody fed up with their diet consisting purely of fish. Also, note that Nameks have teeth - teeth are only required if you need to chew solid food. The most logical answer is that Nameks are similar to the Wraith from Stargate Atlantis. At one point in their evolution, they ate like regular people but eventually developed the capability to exist solely on water. It would explain why they still have teeth, digestive systems and logically the ability to remove waste.
  • Piccolo living with the Son family is 100% filler. In any case, no Namek is ever shown eating in canon.
  • Because Piccolo Daimaoh wasn't Namekian at the time his character was created. He was simply a demon while the Namekian origin came later, along with the entire space theme the series would come to be known by.

• And don't you need to be, like, emotionally focused to the breaking point to achieve Super Saiyan in the first place? Yeah, I know they're supposed to be stronger than their parents, somehow, but this is just ridiculous.
  • Lamarck Was Right?
  • A) The standard Handwave is that once Goku and Vegeta reached SSJ level, it altered their genes, giving Chibi!Trunks and Goten the ability to go SSJ at will.
    B) Toriyama was openly sick of the series by this time and was fond of running crap up the flagpole and seeing who saluted (See also, Mystic!Gohan's build-up and rapid pwnage).
    C) This still doesn't explain why Pan couldn't do it. (The handwave there is that the ability to go SSJ is Y-chromosome-linked)
    • Who says Pan couldn't? she shows up younger at the end of the series than Trunks and Goten did, so there's still time (and GT isn't canon)
    • GT's producer Kozo Morishita explained she never went SSJ because her role in GT was "young grandaughter whom Goku has to save". According to Akira Toriyama, though, Pan never transformed because she had no incentive to transform, (and prior to Caulifla he never drew female Super Saiyans because he could not figure out what they would look like). Regardless, Daizenshuu 7 and Dragon Ball GT: Perfect Files imply she can become both Super Saiyan and Giant Ape. And the trailers for Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero -scripted by Toriyama-, feature Pan powering up.
  • D) Nobody ever told them it was supposed to be hard. Vegeta could likely have achieved it much much earlier if he hadn't had a complex about "legendary Saiyans" and "pure hearts" and "chosen ones".
  • Saiyan-human hybrids always have an easier time reaching Super Saiyan, but it never pans out; this gets amplified as the Saiyan blood gets more diluted. Straight-up Saiyans like Goku, Vegeta, and Broly always come out on top.
  • Although this seems to be more Executive Meddling than any real intent on Toriyama's part. Look at Gohan during the Saiyan and Frieza arcs, where his barely trained power was on par with Goku's (pre-SSJ transformation). The intent was clearly for Gohan to surpass his father in power - a POV made explicit during the Cell Games. It was only during the Buu Saga - where Toriyama was more or less throwing shit against the wall and seeing what stuck - where you got insta-Super Saiyans.
    • This isn't entirely true. In Future Trunks' flashbacks in the Cell Saga (manga only), it shows him at an early age, sparring with his timeline's Gohan. He's already Super Saiyan at that point.
  • This isn't, or shouldn't, be an issue of genes, but of Ki. Every living creature has Ki and That Ki has to come from somewhere, at least initially. When Goten was conceived his Ki came from the blending of Chi-chi and Goku's Ki, at a point AFTER Goku had attained Super Saiyanhood. Thus, Goku's Ki would have been different than it was when he conceived Gohan. Gohan had no Super-Saiyan Ki in him so he had a hard time going Super Saiyan. Goten did have Super Saiyan Ki in him so he had no problem going Super Saiyan.
  • The Super Saiyan genes theory is all well and good for Goten but it's not entirely clear whether or not Trunks was conceived before or after Vegeta managed the transformation.

• Why are Saiyan hybrids considered to be so strong in this series? Saiyans by themselves are already a powerful race. They can become stronger every time they heal from a near-death experience, remain in their prime longer and can access certain transformations like the Great Ape and Super Saiyan which can increase their power up to 50 times their original. What possible trait could a human offer? Humans in this show are often shown to be weak and pale in comparison to a Saiyan. The strongest human in the world is Krillin and he hasn't done anything on the league that any Saiyan can do, and most of the human characters are downright useless when it comes to fighting enemies like Frieza, Cell or Buu. Wouldn't a hybrid be weaker than a pure blooded Saiyan since the Saiyan blood would be diluted and they should in theory have their Saiyan traits weakened?
  • I never saw the Saiyan-Human hybrids to be necessarily "stronger" than their pure-blood Saiyans counterparts. It makes more sense if you look at it as Saiyans having greater ki potential (higher power levels) while Humans much more easily access, manipulate and strengthen that ki.
    • Saiyan-Human hybrids are explicitly stated to be stronger than pure-blood Saiyans, with a higher potential for strength. There's nothing to indicate that humans have better access or manipulation of ki.
    • Real life-genetics doesn't work like liquids. You can't WATER DOWN blood, and often hybrid animals are bigger and stronger then their parents, they have a type of Hybrid Vigor. Then again I can't believe that Toriyama knew that
  • Hybrid Vigor mentioned above is a decent explanation as to why Half-Saiyans are more powerful than full bloods. The reason why they are considered such is because the canon heavily supports it. It probably has as much to do with having the kids grow at similar rates to their parents would have made them useless in story and even if Vegeta and Goku had had full-blooded children they likely would have been as OP as Gohan, Trunks and Gotten that doesn't change the facts. Gohan was consistently far more powerful than he had any right to be including surpassing Goku during the Cell Saga. Trunks and Gotten both achieve Super Saiyan status even younger than Gohan. By contrast both Goku and Vegeta were adults when they accomplished it. There are lots of reasons, presumably both Gotten and Trunks started training in multiples of Earth gravity shortly after they could walk and both had regular contact with someone who could go Super. It's also been theorized that it might be somehow genetic and when Goku and Vegeta turned those genes 'on' they passed to their children.
• What happened to Oolong's shapeshifting ability? I only saw the beginning of Dragon Ball, and throughout the entirety of Dragon Ball Z, Oolong doesn't shapeshift, not even once. Did he lose his power, or does he simply choose not to use it anymore or something?
  • It's simply not very useful. It lasts for precisely five minutes, and replicates appearance, not power level. He'd gain advantages of larger muscles and claws, but not the increased strength from higher ki levels, putting the transformation in the useless category long before Raditz lands.
    • He wouldn't even gain those advantages. He states that his strength remains exactly the same no matter what form he takes.
    • Indeed. Even before his Heel–Face Turn, Oolong's transformations only served to frighten a local village into doing what he wanted. When it became clear that Goku would not be intimidated though, all he could do then was try to run away.

• Is it possible to trap a person inside a Capsule House when it reforms into handheld form? In the Namek Saga, Bulma's house contains a fridge full of food - meaning that organic material can definitely be shrunk within. If it is indeed possible why all that messing around trying to use the Mafuba Wave during the King Piccolo saga when you could simply lure the guy into Kame House, press the magic button, stand back. Alternatively, if all else fails, a specially modified house would make a heck of a bigger target for the Mafuba than a bloody rice cooker...
  • I remember Roshi making sure everyone was out of the house (or was it Bulma?) before shrinking it down, so it's likely people can be shrunk but they probably won't survive the experience. As for the rice cooker, it's not just about getting Daimaoh into the thing, it's also about keeping him in there, which is much easier with a narrow opening (bottle, cooker) than with a huge house.
    • So what's the problem with attempting to trap him in the capsule house? If it kills him it's all the better, the only reason they attempt to capture him is because they can't think of a way to kill him in the first place.
    • As was said, the problem would be getting him in there, keeping him inside long enough to run outside and press the button, etc. The logistics of the situation demanded a surprise attack, not asking him inside for a nice cup of tea then barring all the doors and windows so he can't escape, etc.
    • Recall that when Roshi, Krillin, and Chaotzu were killed during the King Piccolo Saga, Bulma made special caskets to preserve their bodies. Those caskets were Capsule Corp. technology. A LIVING being, on the other hand...given that capsules don't have the mystical properties of the jar Roshi attempted to use, Piccolo may've just blasted his way out and automatically returned to normal size. Just a guess on that last part, though.
  • My guess is that the people won't shrink, thus breaking the house.
  • Disagree with half of the guesses above. Think it's entirely possible, and thus Fridge Horrorific. Like you said, Krillin, Roshi, and Chiaotzu were seen to be reduced to capsule size inside the freezer capsules. They could have been easily resurrected with the Dragon Balls while still inside the capsule. Considering that the cast takes great care in DB to make sure no one is inside, it seems entirely possible. My guess is that it would almost EXACTLY be like Pokemon: you're trapping living creatures in a small containment thing that forcibly shrinks them so they fit inside. You could thus easily hide bodies, money, ANYTHING inside a capsule. The Fridge Horror comes from the fact that anyone could do it any day of the week. It never came up in the writing, but you'd think there has to be some sort of safety release or law that explicitly prevents such exploitation of the capsule system. If there isn't, then the Briefs family obviously has some other business making them rich.
    • As mentioned above, the fact that Bulma makes sure everyone is out before shrinking the house means that either a) capsules don't work when living things are inside or b) the results are so horrific no one willingly does it.
    • It should also be noted that when Bulma makes that miniaturising device during the Red Ribbon arc, it is seen as completely new technology. Thus, miniaturising human beings must have been impossible with the original capsule technology, but technically possible afterwards, even if the concept was never used again.
  • Its up to you if it counts or not, but a sidequest in the second GBA Legacy of Goku game covers this: Capsule Corp and a rival company are racing to see who can make capsules that can contain living things. So far, the only thing we know about their progress is "it's not pretty".

• May have been discussed before: Why, in a world of cat and dog people, do normal humans seem to have near cardiac arrests when they see what appears to be ordinary humans with weird hairstyles, yet don't react at all when confronted with said dog/cat people? I mean, if I were in that universe:
  Me: <turns to see Goku, but to me, he's a human with weird hair> Finally, another human I can talk to!
  • In-Universe, that'd sound incredibly racist.
  • Well, at least I wouldn't make myself look like an idiot for freaking out at some dude who, as far as anyone can tell, is just a regular human with weird hair. The racist part? Clearly an opening for character development where the Z-warriors teach me to not hate on people who are different from me. xD Think that kind of story doesn't exist in the DBZ universe? Observe!
  Gohan: Hey, don't hate on the cat/dog people.
  Me: Why?
  Monster Of The Week: RAWR!
  Cat/Dog Person: <beats monster after long, drawn-out battle>
  Me: Well, I guess they're not so bad after all.

• Why do people in the martial arts tournaments act like they've never seen flying before? Especially the announcer (seeing as he's apparently immortal.)
  • I assumed the announcer was hamming it up for the audience. Common with wrestling announcers who talk about how they've "never seen anything like this before!!!" when they see something that's happened dozens of times. Maybe the Three Month Rule and the Seven-Year Rule apply to martial arts tournaments in the dragon ball universe.

• Planet Vegeta is composed of a society that has advanced enough technology to spread their warrior race across the galaxy and routinely send babies to other worlds where they will be expected to conquer said planets. Are we supposed to realistically believe that only 4 (8 if you count the movies) Saiyans weren't on Planet Vegeta at the time, or that Frieza systematically killed every stray Saiyan on the countless worlds that they inhabit? That is statistically impossible.
  • As far as I'm aware we have never had a canonical statistic on just how many Saiyans there were at the time of Frieza's genocide - given their warlike nature and the fact we have never seen a canonical female (unless you count Seripa in the Bardock Movie) I don't think its very unlikely at all that the Saiyan population numbered in the thousands. In fact, I would go as far to say that they could have been on the endangered species list in a few generations. Secondly, we have absolutely no proof that sending babies to other planets was a common practice as again we know of only one canonical example and that is Kakarot. Finally, the World Trade Organization can track energy levels from a huge distance - if the portable eye mounted energy scouter has the range of a planet then it's perfectly reasonable to assume they also have a far larger version situated on one of the Frieza occupied worlds that has a vastly superior reach. It should also be noted the portable energy scouter has an interstellar communicator (Vegeta could listen in on Raditz a whole year away by space pod.) In the real world we can track mobile phones and radio signals so why can't the far more advanced WTO track the Scouters using a similar method?
  • A few misconceptions here: The Saiyans weren't advanced enough for that; it was someone else's tech that was either given to them or they took (I don't recall at the moment which). Sending babies out was described as common practice, but wasn't a sure thing. It was like the Spartans dumping weak infants off a cliff, only in this case the infants have a small chance of survival and (in the eyes of the warrior race that spawned them) redemption.
    
    And the WTO doesn't have to track their power levels. They control the Saiyans, and that includes the pods they travel in. They would only have to track the pods and where they were last sent.
    • It still staggers belief that only four (eight if you count the movies) Saiyans managed to survive. We didn't see all of their planet but it's safe to assume there should have been millions of them not hundreds or thousands and based on how they were used there should have been more that escaped. Kinda like how nuking America and I mean every inch of it, wouldn't kill Americans. We've got enough bases in other places and people on vacation etc, etc that wouldn't be enough. It's at least implied that the Saiyans were basically the badasses of Frieza's army sparing characters with names. Most of them don't seem to be able to fly and they have laser cannons because they can't shoot. Hunting down the last Saiyans when only your elites can safely approach a Saiyan doesn't seem like the sort of thing Frieza would bother with. It's true that they could be hunted based on their pods but two things. One they knew exactly where Goku was and apparently didn't care until Vegeta casually sent Raditz out so he could have a four-man wrecking crew so clearly they weren't hunting very hard. (Either that or Earth is so far out from civilization that it wasn't worth it) And Scouters are ALWAYS ON. Once an wayward Saiyan started shouting: "Holy crap, Frieza's soldiers are attacking!", every other Saiyan should have gone into hiding. Personally, my theory is that there are a lot of Saiyans out on a lot of planets who don't know Frieza's dead and have no way of contacting each other without the Scouters they're afraid to use because it would give away their location.
    • The Saiyans didn't settle the planets they conquered. They blew up the inhabitants then sold it to Freeza. It's pretty likely that any Saiyan not on a mission or otherwise exiled was, in fact, on Planet Vegeta. And it wouldn't make any sense for all the scouters anywhere to be always on broadcasting everything the wearer heard and said. If they worked like that, nobody would wear them because there would be constant noise coming out of the earpiece.
    • Doesn't really matter that they didn't stay to settle the planets. In Dragon Ball, space travel might not take realistic amounts of time but it's far from instant. Vegeta and Nappa take a full year to travel from wherever they were to Earth. There should have been a lot of Saiyans in transit either two or fro a mission.
    • Did we not forget that Frieza can send his ridiculous amount of soldiers after them? I'm pretty sure Serpia/Fasha was killed by Dodoria under Frieza's orders.
    • Dodoria does kill Serpia/Fasha. The problem with this theory is that Frieza would literally have had to send his ridiculous amount of soldiers. As is stated above it seems implied that Saiyans are a big deal, like Raditz is by the far the weakest of the Saiyans and while Cui would have beaten him I'm not sure how many standard can't fly, using wrist-mounted laser cannon, mooks you'd have to send to get rid of one Raditz. I suspect that like Nappa vs the Earth Army though the correct answer is ALL OF THEM and that might not get the job done.
    • And yet, they failed to track the pod that sent young Kakarot to Earth. If one slipped through the cracks, there's no reason that others couldn't have as well.
    • They didn't fail to track the pod that sent young Kakkarot to Earth. Vegeta seemed to know exactly where it was and we have no reason to believe Vegeta was privy to information that Frieza wasn't. Frieza just didn't care.
  • Dragonball Minus explains it: Frieza sent a recall order to the Saiyans one month before blowing it up specifically to kill them all when he blew up the planet. And when informed that not all Saiyan would make it in time (with Vegeta just ignoring the order), he comes up with the meteor lie to tell the survivors. The implication is that, in the manga, more than just Goku, Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz survived, but by the time Raditz came to Earth the other Saiyan had all died in battle.

• Why aren't superhumans more abundant in this universe? We saw Gohan teach Videl how to fly and use Ki Manipulation, and it's relatively simple to learn. Why don't more people do it?
  • Because there aren't a whole lot of teachers? I mean, basically the only people that can fly are the main cast and relatives of the main cast and it's not like they're out there, searching for above-average humans and teaching them to fight/fly. After a certain point in the series, most of them seem pretty content to just chill when there isn't some planet-threatening crisis, so training a bunch of humans to fly and then teach other people doesn't really seem like something they'd do.
    • I disagree with a key point the OP made here: There is massive evidence to support the fact that learning to use your Ki is fifty times more difficult than the post-Dragonball Z universe makes out. The only three pure-blooded humans in this entire franchise who can use their Ki to a significant degree are the fighting prodigies Yamcha, Tien and Krillin. Every other human we ever see has only ever mastered Ki up to a certain point before they hit an impasse and can not train any further. The fourth strongest living pure human Master Roshi took fifty years to develop the Kamehameha Wave and still cannot fly, Videl has never shown to have Ki ability that could have greatly troubled even the original series Goku, Shen and Tao are pretty much the Dodon Ray and nothing else. Not many others come anywhere close to their class with the possible exception of Chi Chi.
    • Point of order here, Tien is Word of God not actually human, so that brings the total number of humans able to use ki to a truly superhuman degree to two plus a number probably less than fifty who can use it for cantrips and abilities that, by comparison, are only marginally above real-life martial artists.

• As I understand it two things are required for the Great Ape Transformation: a Saiyan tail and enough moonlight absorbed through the eyes. This is unlike a Werewolf for example that absorbs moonlight through the skin (explaining why Goku and Gohan didn't transform every full moon as opposed to just those they were awake for.) With this in mind would it be possible to delay the transformation, by even the smallest degree, by wearing a pair of heavily tinted sunglasses? I don't know how many of you have tried this but wearing sunglasses at night reduces the moon's glare by a serious proportion. In fact whilst we're on the subject couldn't you further reduce the length of time required by donning a pair of Riddick's welding goggles? even half-blooded Gohan has vision that allows him to see a puppy from hundreds of miles in the air so a normal Saiyan could probably maintain a very good standard of eyesight. I just wanted to note that I'm not actually saying any of the characters should have tried this but I do find it a very interesting question - after all, it is clear the transformation isn't instant and requires a good few seconds of moonlight to trigger it.
  • There is no way of knowing for sure. We don't know anything about Blutz Waves (the energy the moon produces that allows the Oozaru transformation) or how they can be blocked. Since closing your eyes works blocking the energy isn't impossible perhaps like Cyclops of the X-Men with his ruby quartz glasses. In-universe, the transformation seems to almost always be a good thing so nobody spent much time trying to figure out how to stop it.

• Okay, so if the dragon balls can only bring people back once (unless you use Namek's), then how are all the random people killed by a big bad brought back? I mean, what are the chances that no civilians killed by the last villain were killed by this villain?
  • That limitation is only for the Earth Balls and it's changed after Dende takes over. Even if it wasn't they didn't wish all the Cell victims back and the victims of Buu were wished back on the Namek Balls on account of Earth being... well sorta exploded at the time.
    • This brings up another problem...
    • IIRC, they wished back Earth first before putting the people back onto Earth.

• Why didn't they wish back Cell's victims? The guy ate entire cities!
  • They did. It's the same wish that brings back Future Trunks.

• Why do the games tend to promote Gogeta vs Broly? As awesome as that would b, this never happens. Tenkaichi 3's intro shows Gohan fighting Janemba (also never happens) while Gogeta fights Broly, even if it would make more sense for Gogeta to fight Janemba and Gohan to fight Broly, fights which actually happened. And a lot of the other games will either include them duking it out in the intro or having them fight in story mode. Here's an incomplete list: Budokai 3, Tenkaichi 3, Shin Budokai, Raging Blast, Raging Blast 2, and I believe Burst Limit. There are a few I'm forgetting. It just seems strange that a nonexistent fight gets so hyped up.
  • It's specifically BECAUSE these fights never happen. Sure some people would like to play through the actual stories, but if they were limited to that, then they would just quit playing. This is the reason behind fan works. The fights never happen and so it leaves fans to wonder what if they did? You said yourself that it would be awesome. That's the only reason. Same reason why we can have Pan fight Kid Buu despite the fact that she wouldn't last seconds by herself. Broly is given so much hype, oftentimes people tend to think he's stronger than he really is. So who better to fight him than Gogeta? Same goes for Gohan against Janemba, just because people wonder what if?
    • About that...
• Why is Super Saiyan 3 so weak? Starting at the beginning Frieza was still holding back a little vs Goku, once Goku went SSJ1 he made pretty short work of Frieza. It's unclear how close Gohan was to Cell in SSJ1 but when he went SSJ2 he was curb stomping him with such ease that he decided to play around with him for a bit. Goku fought Buu reasonably well as SSJ2 and so did Vegeta. While SSJ3 was certainly a better choice it felt like it was additional strength not a multiplier of existing strength. If you take Battle of the Gods as cannon, as many fans seem willing to do since Akira Toriyama worked directly on it, Vegeta was able to briefly surpass Goku's strength without transforming. I suspect the real reason is immediately after drawing SSJ3 the artists realized it's a lot more work than they wanted to do hence Vegeta never accomplishing it. But inverse is there any reason why there is so little difference?
  • One thing you'll note about SSJ3 is that it's relatively underused in comparison to the other forms - Vegeta,

Trunks, and Bra don't possess the Honor Gene needed to use said form, so the only people who could access said form regularly are Goku, Gohan, Goten^note not counting Pan, who's either too young to train/never went Super Saiyan, and Raditz, who died before Goku went SS, Gotenks, and (presumably) Vegito/Gogeta; because it's not used as frequently, the Saiyans who can use it don't have as much motivation to improve upon it, and seeing as how SSG/SSB is much easier to achieve, it's likely that said form won't ever truly be "perfected" the same way the first 2 Super Saiyan forms were.

• The fact that no-one can use the Dragonballs to stop the villains. True, they can't target individuals more powerful than the dragon, but couldn't they inconvenience them in other ways? For example, instead of preparing for Vegeta and Nappa they go "I wish that the life support of the Saiyans' ship fails", or with Frieza "I wish Frieza's ship would backfire and crash into the sun."
  • According to Dragon Ball Z Abridged, it's because everyone is content with the idea of, "Let Goku take care of it."
  • While Frieza would just jump off the ship and fly away it's entirely possible that the Dragon is restricted by some law that prevents him from effecting, in any way, a being stronger than him against their will. All the scenarios listed would be fatal. They might have been able to move the Earth (or the entire solar system) if they'd thought of that but perhaps the dragon simply cannot kill even with clever workarounds.
• I'm sure Shenron have seen Piccolo Jr. a few times throughout the series. Why doesn't he recognize him as the guy who killed him? Shenron: Wait a minute! Aren't you that green guy who killed me years ago? You blew me up after I granted your wish for eternal youth! Yes, it was King Piccolo who killed the dragon, but he probably doesn't know that.
  • Maybe he's advanced enough that he recognizes that Piccolo Jr. isn't the guy who killed him. When Piccolo and Kami fuse Goku immediately called him Kamiccolo because he can sense the fused spirits as a new being. In fact the Cell and Buu saga's both confirm that the Z-Fighters are quite capable of identifying individuals by their ki signature. As opposed to scouters which simply gauge overall strength and any identification is based solely on knowing who should be where and approximately how strong they are. If Shenron can sense energy levels (which Kami should be able to do and Dende certainly can. He actually mistakes Piccolo for Nail at first and despite art styles I don't think all Nameks look alike to other Nameks) so it makes perfect sense that Shenron might treat Piccolo Jr as an entirely separate entity from King Piccolo.
  • He probably just doesn't care. He's here to grant your wish(es) as quick as possible so he can go back to sleep. Unless you're Beerus, he doesn't give a damn who you are.

• Saiyan history makes no sense as a whole and seems to constantly contradict itself. The Saiyans are constantly brought up as the most evil race in the universe and that they were an intergalactic threat. How did they manage that? The Saiyans we see in flashbacks aren't capable of space flight. They were running around in animal skins until Frieza found them and, at that point, it seems clear that they were not serving Frieza willingly. They were a slave army. So prior to meeting Frieza they were clearly stuck on planet Vegeta and after that, they were forced to fight until Frieza killed them all. The Saiyans had no means until Frieza found them to send their babies into space and we have no reason to believe that the Saiyans and Frieza had been working together for more than a generation.
  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Kami and King Kai the only non-Saiyan's that claimed they were an intergalactic threat at the time of their annihilation? Because all the other evidence makes it pretty clear that they were wrong. If Raditz and Goku at the start of the series are any indication, the common non-elite Saiyan warrior was laughably weak in comparison to other races, and the elite wasn't much better given the strength levels of King Vegeta and Nappa. The reason why Frieza destroyed them, however, was that they were becoming a threat and he feared that their new found strength would bring forth a new Super Saiyan.
  • Even so, keep in mind that the Saiyans were still a threat to the various worlds who couldn't have a hope in hell of stopping them and Frieza's army from just curbstomping them. It took a resurrected Goku to come back and the good guys still almost lost to Vegeta, one lone elite Saiyan. Hell, even Raditz was stronger than Goku at the start of the show. So yes, King Kai and Kami were right. The Saiyans may not have been bar none the most powerful race in the entire galaxy but they were still pretty damned powerful.
  • It's explained in Jaco the Galactic Patrolman: it's a combination of them being freakishly strong, loving fights too much to be reasoned with, and an almost invincible immune system, with the latter being the main reason as the only weapon of the Galactic Patrol that can stop Frieza's army is a virus bomb that has no effect on the Saiyans.
• With Dragon Ball Super retelling Battle of Gods and Ressurection of F does that decanonize the movies?
  • Manga. Anime with GT. Anime without GT. Anime with GT with movies. Anime without GT with movies. Anime with GT without movies except for Broly and Cooler. Anime without GT without movies except for Broly and Cooler... you get the point. There are so many different interpretations of Dragonball canon that it is irrelevant. Just pick one and run with it.
• How come that nobody is interested in guarding the Dragon Balls, not even the Z Fighters? They only seek them out whenever they need to make a wish, otherwise they don't care about them. That sounds pretty irresponsible, considering that they can grant anyone nearly any wish. What's stopping a villain from gathering them and wishing for world domination? In fact, Pilaf got to gather them and make a wish before Super/BOG, and there was nobody stopping him. It was only dumb luck on everyone's part that he didn't ask for world domination that time.
  • Because the Z Fighters are not the owners of the dragon balls, they are property of the entire world, so that anyone can make a wish. Also, it's not irresponsible, because guarding the dragon balls is not their responsibility, it's in fact very selfish. What if some guy wanted to gather the balls to wish for his destroyed village to be restored? If the Z Fighters held onto the balls, he would never be able to find them.
    • Especially by BoG the heroes clearly consider themselves the "owners" of the Dragonballs and leaving them unguarded is nearly suicidally dumb. Resurrection of Frieza clearly demonstrates this. As for some guy wanting to find them to wish back his village he's actually in a better spot with the Z Fighters guarding them than not. That's all seven in one place guarded by people who would likely give them to you if they deemed you worthy. The alternative being traveling around the world and hoping it takes you less than a year to collect them. It's easy to forget that gathering the Dragon Balls is extremely difficult even for fairly powerful people like Roshi.
  • You probably can't wish for world domination at least not in any real sense of the word. Nearly all the Z-fighters are far stronger than Dende and it's made clear that the Dragon cannot affect beings more powerful than itself against their will. So either the wish fizzles or the Z-fighters take you out. You can't wish to be more powerful and even if you could it would probably max out at Dende strength. It's not clear if immortality would even work. The only example is the extremely loose cannon of Garlic Jr. And even then if you're not on par with say Buu the absolute worst case scenario is wrestling you into the ROSAT and destroying the door.
• Why not use the dragon balls to wish for all the evil in the universe to disappear? Have all the villains turn good.
  • Shenron would have nowhere near enough power to grant a wish like that. He once said he couldn't find the super dragon balls because it would require searching the entire universe, which is just too damn big. Not to mention all of the villains that would be millions of times stronger than him. Also, seeing as the dragon balls are unable to revive anyone who doesn't want to be revived, they also might not be able to alter someone who likes being evil. Lastly, you're talking about taking away the free will of every single being in the universe, which I'm pretty sure wouldn't be seen as a good thing by the heroes.
  • You also seem to be forgetting that Goku and Vegeta get off on fighting. They don't want a peaceful universe.
• Did Akira Toriyama base Gero off of Wheelo? Wheelo and Gero were mad scientists who used murderous machines for evil purposes. They both put their brains in robot bodies.
• Why is money an issue for the Son household and why is Chichi so irrationally obsessed with having a scholar for a son? It makes sense in the real world where your chances of making a living as a professional fighter or celebrity are much lower than your chances of getting a respectable job with a college degree. The thing is her husband and sons are all world-class fighters. As far as we can tell Mr. Satan is the legit world champion and has been essentially since Goku and all the real fighters decided to leave. Even if all the Z-Fighters did enter and Goku lost to Vegeta every time she'd still have three people placing in the top 10! Additionally if she didn't want them fighting there are tons of jobs a Z-Fighter could do well. Assuming Gohan in SSJ is still faster than base Pan at the end of Z he could be anywhere on the planet in a matter of minutes. I think Gohan's Courier Service would do just fine. As would Gohan Fireworks, Gohan demolition crew, Gohan Fire and Rescue or police work which given he moonlights as Saiyaman he seems to enjoy, or at least enjoy the saving people and righting wrongs aspects.
  • As noted in canon Gohan is something of a softy, unlike the rest of the Z fighters, he doesn't take as much pleasure in fighting, hell, that is his entire arc in the Cell Saga, he still has the Saiyan lust for battle, but he can't use it unless he is pushed, Chi-Chi, unlike Gohan's battle crazy dad, kinda gets this, she wants for him to have something to fall back on, she just overdoes it, his Saiyaman antics seem to be a release for what little battle lust he has, and later on it is said by many characters that unlike the rest of the group, he hasn't really been keeping up with his training, to the point that in Resurrection F he isn't sure whether he can become SSJ2 anymore, unlike the others who at least kept up some of their training, but remember, some of the Z fighters do have normal lives outside of fighting this months' Humanoid Abomination, Yamcha is a baseball player and Krillin is a Cop! that might be the avenue that Gohan takes later on in life, not all heroes wear gis
• Frieza being afraid of Beerus and asking him for permission to blow up Planet Vegeta...doesn't this retcon and hurt his character a bit? I'm used to seeing Frieza as a powerful tyrant, and a ruthless one at that. Why not have Frieza blow up Planet Vegeta behind Beerus's back and lie to him? He could have told Beerus that an insane Saiyan blew it up. It would be true to Frieza's character for him to lie and do things behind your back.
  • I don't know where you got that idea from, because it was actually the other way around - Beerus gave Frieza permission to destroy Planet Vegeta because it was too far away. Plus, King Cold explicitly told Frieza to stay away from Beerus and Majin Buu, so it's possible said fear was drilled into him from a young age.
• When people die, they go to the afterlife. Some keep their bodies after death. The Kais all live in the afterlife, and when King Kai and Old Kai died, they pretty much just gained halos on the spot, which also means they don't need to see King Yemma. Even King Kai in Dragon Ball Super says that his desire to live again is more for the principle of the thing and doesn't affect his job. So for all intents and purposes, a Kai being dead means little. Yet in the timeline where Goku Black and Future Zamasu killed the Kais and by extension the Gods of Destruction, as well as when Buu killed the original Universe 7 Supreme Kais, they are treated as being as irreversibly gone like the mortals. So the question is why do some Kais hang around after death and others don't?
• Has it ever been mentioned by Word of God or something, the actual name of Frieza's Race? Because every other "important" race in the franchise has a name, the closest I have heard was in Xenoverse, when specifically they mention that Frieza's specific clan name is called after their strongest family member, which is why they are called the Frieza Clan/Force (unless you take over), it is rather infuriating that such a prominant part of the cast doesn't even have a proper species name, even a race created singularly by Buu gets called the Majins.
• What's the out of universe reason Saiyans are named after vegetables, despite having nothing to do with them? Wouldn't it make far more sense for them to have simian-related name?
  • Why is the Red Ribbon Army all colors? Why is Frieza's race all cold-related names? Why are Destroyers and their angels all forms of liquor? It's just a Toriyama thing.

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