History YMMV / XenoSaga

* FauxSymbolism: The series is dense with namedrops to philosophy and religion, but it's difficult to tell how much of the symbolism and references are really symbolic and how many are gratuitous, not helped by the aborted and rewritten plot. In general, ''Xenosaga'' is considered much worse about it than the ShownTheirWork ''Xenogears'', where most of the religious and philosophical terms had direct thematic or allegorical applications, or than ''Franchise/XenobladeChronicles'', although that's because there's less of it there.

** ''VideoGame/{{Xenogears}}'', ''VideoGame/{{Xenosaga}}'' and ''Franchise/XenobladeChronicles'' are NOT the same franchise. They are three separate [=IPs=], owned by three separate companies, with three separate narratives and continuities, not meant to be directly sharing any form of universe, or even multiverse. While it's true that they share many elements out of the fact that they were created by the same group of people, for reasons that partially have to do with copyright, the connections are supposed to be only spiritual and conceptual, and nothing more (a bit like the ''VideoGame/SystemShock'' and ''VideoGame/BioShock'' franchises, for instance). This is not helped by the fact that fans of Monolith's work like to lump them together anyway, even those who are 100% aware of this fact. Thus, they are called "the Xeno series" for the sake of brevity, which can be misleading for casual observers and newcomers (some fans have suggested to use "the Xeno games" or "the Xeno metaseries" instead, but with little avail). The ending of ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles3FutureRedeemed'' [[spoiler:finally does tie the whole meta series together, with some potent [[WhamShot Wham Shots]] and [[WhamLine Wham Lines]] at the very end, implying that a certain event that happened in Xenoblade was the catalyst for the disappearance of Lost Jerusalem in both ''Xenogears'' and ''Xenosaga''.]]

* FandomRivalry: To an extend, with both its spiritual predecessor ''VideoGame/{{Xenogears}}'' ''and'' its SpiritualSuccessor ''Franchise/XenobladeChronicles''.
** ''VideoGame/{{Xenogears}}'': The contention is about which of the two had the best narrative. Both go for huge space opera epics, with a millennia-extending and mystery-ridden JigsawPuzzlePlot that demands the player's full attention to understand what's going on. While it's mostly accepted that ''Xenosaga'' was more consistent in its presentation and gameplay[[note]]mostly because ''Xenosaga'' doesn't have anything resembling the infamous Disc 2 from ''Xenogears''. Episode 2 has a lot of problems, but having almost no gameplay sections whatsoever ain't one of them[[/note]], it seems that people think ''Xenogears'' managed to pull off a more satisfying and intriguing story overall regardless. Something a bit less clear cut is which of the two games have the best characters. Albeit both franchises are considered to have amazing casts overall, with incredibly complex and rounded characters, ''Xenogears'' tends to be favored when it comes to its main characters[[note]]Fei doesn't suffer from being a BaseBreakingCharacter nearly as much as Shion does[[/note]], while ''Xenosaga'' seems to be considered the better one at making the entire cast more or less relevant the whole way through[[note]]A common criticism towars ''Xenogears'' is that too many characters, including playable ones, fall back to the background rather quickly, and become passive actors at best, and borderline irrelevant at worst. On the other hand, ''Xenosaga'', while not perfect in this regard (Shion gets OutOfFocus sometimes, and MOMO doesn't have much to do in Episode 3), managed to give almost all its characters at least some opportunity to shine until the very end[[/note]].
** ''Franchise/XenobladeChronicles'': In this case, ''Xenoblade Chronicles 1'' fans consider this franchise ended up being the best work from Tetsuya Takahashi. Although ''Xenosaga'' fans call out ''Xenoblade Chronicles 1'' for having "dumbed down the story", ''Xenoblade Chronicles 1'' fans argue that both ''Xenogears'' and ''Xenosaga'' were too ambitious for their own good, and that is ''Xenoblade Chronicles 1'' the franchise that managed to deliver a more balanced experience, with a story that manages to be both satisfyingly and relatively easy to follow without needing to read a wiki. Also, when it comes to gameplay, ''Xenoblade Chronicles 1'' tends to be consider to beat the other two franchises out of the water due to it's more modern WideOpenSandbox design and less reliance on overtly long cut scenes (a sentiment which creator Tetsuya Takahashi has explicitly agreed with).

** ''VideoGame/{{Xenogears}}'', ''VideoGame/{{Xenosaga}}'' and ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles1'' are NOT the same franchise. They are three separate [=IPs=], owned by three separate companies, with three separate narratives and continuities, not meant to be directly sharing any form of universe, or even multiverse. While it's true that they share many elements out of the fact that they were created by the same group of people, for reasons that partially have to do with copyright, the connections are supposed to be only spiritual and conceptual, and nothing more (a bit like the ''VideoGame/SystemShock'' and ''VideoGame/BioShock'' franchises, for instance). This is not helped by the fact that fans of Monolith's work like to lump them together anyway, even those who are 100% aware of this fact. Thus, they are called "the Xeno series" for the sake of brevity, which can be misleading for casual observers and newcomers (some fans have suggested to use "the Xeno games" or "the Xeno metaseries" instead, but with little avail). The ending of ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles3FutureRedeemed'' [[spoiler:finally does tie the whole meta series together, with some potent [[WhamShot Wham Shots]] and [[WhamLine Wham Lines]] at the very end, implying that a certain event that happened in Xenoblade was the catalyst for the disappearance of Lost Jerusalem in both ''Xenogears'' and ''Xenosaga''.]]

* FandomRivalry: To an extend, with both its spiritual predecessor ''VideoGame/{{Xenogears}}'' ''and'' its SpiritualSuccessor ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles1''.

** ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles1'': In this case, ''Xenoblade Chronicles 1'' fans consider this franchise ended up being the best work from Tetsuya Takahashi. Although ''Xenosaga'' fans call out ''Xenoblade Chronicles 1'' for having "dumbed down the story", ''Xenoblade Chronicles 1'' fans argue that both ''Xenogears'' and ''Xenosaga'' were too ambitious for their own good, and that is ''Xenoblade Chronicles 1'' the franchise that managed to deliver a more balanced experience, with a story that manages to be both satisfyingly and relatively easy to follow without needing to read a wiki. Also, when it comes to gameplay, ''Xenoblade Chronicles 1'' tends to be consider to beat the other two franchises out of the water due to it's more modern WideOpenSandbox design and less reliance on overtly long cut scenes (a sentiment which creator Tetsuya Takahashi has explicitly agreed with).
* FauxSymbolism: It's difficult to tell how much is gratuitous and how much is really symbolic given the themes and plot. In general, ''Xenosaga'' is much worse about it than the ShownTheirWork ''Xenogears'', and ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles1'', although that's because there's less of it there.

* SugarWiki/SuperlativeDubbing: While it has shown its age (and in many ways has some bizarre LipLock made even worse in the first game), this was considered to be a pretty solid dub. Many people preferred the english voices for the amount of LargeHam and even Epcar's DullSurprise performance of Ziggy (especially in the first episode) even made sense. Special mention to Creator/CrispinFreeman as Albedo, who's terrifying portrayal as Albedo made him easily one of the most engaging characters in all of Creator/MonolithSoft repertoir, and possibly their best villain up to this point.

** ''VideoGame/{{Xenogears}}'', ''VideoGame/{{Xenosaga}}'' and ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles1'' are NOT the same franchise. They are three separate [=IPs=], owned by three separate companies, with three separate narratives and continuities, not meant to be directly sharing any form of universe, or even multiverse. While it's true that they share many elements out of the fact that they were created by the same group of people, the connections are supposed to be only spiritual and conceptual, and nothing more (a bit like the ''VideoGame/SystemShock'' and ''VideoGame/BioShock'' franchises, for instance). This is not helped by the fact that fans of Monolith's work like to lump them together anyway, even those who are 100% aware of this fact. Thus, they are called "the Xeno series" for the sake of brevity, which can be misleading for casual observers and newcomers (some fans have suggested to use "the Xeno games" or "the Xeno metaseries" instead, but with little avail). The ending of ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles3FutureRedeemed'' [[spoiler:finally does tie the whole meta series together, with some potent [[WhamShot Wham Shots]] and [[WhamLine Wham Lines]] at the very end, implying that a certain event that happened in Xenoblade was the catalyst for the disappearance of Lost Jerusalem in both ''Xenogears'' and ''Xenosaga''.]]

** ''VideoGame/{{Xenogears}}'', ''VideoGame/{{Xenosaga}}'' and ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles1'' are NOT the same franchise. They are three separate [=IPs=], owned by three separate companies, with three separate narratives and continuities, not meant to be directly sharing any form of universe, or even multiverse. While it's true that they share many elements out of the fact that they were created by the same group of people, the connections are supposed to be only spiritual and conceptual, and nothing more (a bit like the ''VideoGame/SystemShock'' and ''VideoGame/BioShock'' franchises, for instance). This is not helped by the fact that fans of Monolith's work like to lump them together anyway, even those who are 100% aware of this fact. Thus, they are called "the Xeno series" for the sake of brevity, which can be misleading for casual observers and newcomers (some fans have suggested to use "the Xeno games" or "the Xeno metaseries" instead, but with little avail). [[spoiler:Though the DLC for ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles3'' finally does tie the whole meta series together, with some potent [[WhamShot Wham Shots]] and [[WhamLine Wham Lines]] at the very end, implying that a certain event that happened in Xenoblade was the catalyst for Earth disappearing.]]

** ''VideoGame/{{Xenogears}}'', ''VideoGame/{{Xenosaga}}'' and ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles1'' are NOT the same franchise. They are three separate [=IPs=], owned by three separate companies, with three separate narratives and continuities, not meant to be directly sharing any form of universe, or even multiverse. While it's true that they share many elements out of the fact that they were created by the same group of people, the connections are supposed to be only spiritual and conceptual, and nothing more (a bit like the ''VideoGame/SystemShock'' and ''VideoGame/BioShock'' franchises, for instance). This is not helped by the fact that fans of Monolith's work like to lump them together anyway, even those who are 100% aware of this fact. Thus, they are called "the Xeno series" for the sake of brevity, which can be misleading for casual observers and newcomers (some fans have suggested to use "the Xeno games" or "the Xeno metaseries" instead, but with little avail).

** Jr. yelling [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jBHng7l0do "YOU DANN BITCH!"]] at Orgulla became pretty popular due to how [[ObligatorySwearing forced]] it sounded.

** A good chunk of Albedo's dialog, with ''Ma Belle Peche'' being to most notable.

* ImprovedSecondAttempt: After Episodes I and II were both criticized for having art styles that suffered from UnintentionallyUncannyValley, III went for a hybridized style that was widely praised for being eye-pleasing and avoiding the pitfalls of both.

* AuthorsSavingThrow: After Episodes I and II were both criticized for having art styles that suffered from unintentional creepiness, III went for a hybridized style that was widely praised for being eye-pleasing and avoiding the pitfalls of both.

* {{Moe}}: MOMO seems to have been designed specifically to be as Moe as possible, what with her pink hair, [[TokenMiniMoe childlike appearance]], sweet personality, and the fact that the game [[TheWoobie likes to make hee suffer]].

** Some would consider ''Xenosaga itself'' to be this, smack in between ''Xenogears'' and ''Xenoblade.'' Due to the TroubledProduction and massive writing shakeups plus the [[ContinuityLockout sequestering of important story content]] to LostForever spinoff media, the game is often considered worse than ''Xenogears'', which at the very least told a generally complete story despite similarly rough development, and ''Xenoblade'', which was made with as smooth of a development as could be done, and released to great success. While ''Xenosaga'' has fans, it lacks the strengths of either title, on top of being the hardest to actually find a copy of.

* PresumedFlop: A lot of people have the perception that Episode I, despite the majorly positive reception from critics and fans, was a commercial flop, which was what prompted the changes in the series moving forward, specially shortening the original 6-part story to a trilogy. However, this wasn't the case. The game was one of Namco's biggest sellers of 2002, managing to even outsell a heavy hitter like ''VideoGame/Tekken4'', and the series gathered enough good will for Namco to green light multiple spin-off games and even an anime adaptation. The disappointment wasn't so much about finances as much as management. By Takahashi's own admission, the game's TroubledProduction was more due to the lack of experience of the team and his own shortcomings as a director when it came to project management, which were an almost beat-for-beat repetition of what happened with ''VideoGame/Xenogears''. The result was that the team only managed to tell a mere 20% of the first story arc. As in, the story that was supposed to span the first two episodes of the entire saga. Meaning that completing the entire 6 part epic Takahashi envisioned would have needed, not 6, but a whopping 15 game series spanning until, at least, the 2030s. ''Xenosaga'' would have needed to become a world-wide pop culture Juggernaut of the level of ''Franchise/StarWars'' itself in order to at least ponder such a proposition. The perception is true when it comes to Episode II, though.

** Some would consider ''Xenosaga itself'' to be this, smack in between ''Xenogears'' and ''Xenoblade.'' Due to the TroubledProduction and massive writing shakeups plus the [[ContinuityLockout sequestering of important story content]] to LostForever spinoff media, the game is often considered worse than ''Xenogears'', which at the very least told a complete story despite a rough development, and ''Xenoblade'', which was made with as smooth of a development as could be done, and released to great success.

** So ''Xenosaga'' stopped at 3 episodes because Namco interfered after the 1st episode came out on account of it being a failure, right? Well not quite. Despite being a commonly accepted view and stated as fact, in truth Namco were very supportive of the team and helped as much as they could, and while the first episode wasn't a smash-hit, it wasn't a commercial failure, selling generally pretty well in both the East and West. The team was changed up by Takahashi himself, who was wanting newer staff to step-up and have the chance to show what they could do, but his frustrations with the development of the first episode and factors with the new team caused him to basically walk off the project, with a team that was a bit all over the place. So while yes the game had a rough development, it wasn't because of Namco or bad sales, but due to internal problems.
** ''VideoGame/{{Xenogears}}'', ''VideoGame/{{Xenosaga}}'' and ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles1'' are NOT the same franchise. They are three separate [=IPs=], owned by three separate companies, with three separate narratives and continuities, not meant to be sharing any form of universe, or even multiverse. While it's true that they share many elements out of the fact that they were created by the same group of people, the connections are supposed to be only spiritual, and nothing more (a bit like the ''VideoGame/SystemShock'' and ''VideoGame/BioShock'' franchises, for instance). This is not helped by the fact that fans of Monolith's work like to lump them together anyway, even those who are 100% aware of this fact. Thus, they are called "the Xeno series" for the sake of brevity, which can be misleading for casual observers and newcomers (some fans have suggested to use "the Xeno games" or "the Xeno metaseries" instead, but with little avail).

** It's known that Jin and Margulis used to be friends, and in Episode III you can find Jin's bathing suit in Margulis's room, for some reason.

** Namco are often blamed for the troubled development of the game. However, in truth, it was Takashi himself who caused the issues due to suddenly shaking up the development team for the second game.

* {{Misblamed}}: A lot of the [[StoryToGameplayRatio notoriously long cutscenes]] gets blamed on the creators abusing AuteurLicense and getting carried away with the story they wanted to tell, especially since VideoGame/{{Xenogears}} was also known for its lengthy cutscenes. However, the developers revealed that the long cutscenes are actually {{Padding}} used to get around the fact that the game had quite a TroubledProduction in which they had difficulty getting the gameplay engine to work correctly until a year before the game released.

* PlatonicWritingRomanticReading: The developers seemed to intend for KOS-MOS and Shion's relationship to appear platonic, but they typically appear '''MUCH''' closer than that. For what it's worth, the writers seem to flipflop between portraying their relationship as [[LesYay romantic]] or a mother-daughter one. Or [[TakeAThirdOption possibly]] [[IncestSubtext both]], considering the motherly traits of various other official ''Xeno'' love interests.

* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: All three episodes were considered quite high tier in regards of graphical prowress when they first came out. However, nowadays Episodes I and II in particular are considered considerably dated. To be more specific:

** ''Episode II'' is considered the worst of the trilogy, if not downright a FranchiseKiller. Many people gave up on the series altogether with that game for multiple reasons.
** Some would consider ''Xenosaga itself'' to be this, smack in between ''Xenogears'' and ''Xenoblade.'' Due to TroubledProduction and massive writing shakeups plus the [[ContinuityLockout sequestering of important story content]] to LostForever spinoff media, the story is often considered to infferior to both ''Xenogears'' and ''Xenoblade'', and the gameplay is generally agreed to be a lot less refined compared to ''Xenoblade''.

** So ''Xenosaga'' stopped at 3 episodes because Namco interfered after the 1st episode came out on account of it being a failure, right? Well not quite. Despite being a commonly accepted view and stated as fact, in truth Namco were very supportive of the team and helped as much as they could, and while the first episode wasn't a smash-hit, it wasn't a commercial failure, selling generally pretty well in both the East and West. The team was changed up by Takahashi himself, who was wanting newer staff to step-up, but his frustrations with the development of the first episode caused him to basically walk off the project and the team was forced to do their best to create the next two games.

* CommonKnowledge: ''VideoGame/{{Xenogears}}'', ''VideoGame/{{Xenosaga}}'' and ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles1'' are NOT the same franchise. They are three separate [=IPs=], owned by three separate companies, with three separate narratives and continuities, not meant to be sharing any form of universe, or even multiverse. While it's true that they share many elements out of the fact that they were created by the same group of people, the connections are supposed to be only spiritual, and nothing more (a bit like the ''VideoGame/SystemShock'' and ''VideoGame/BioShock'' franchises, for instance). This is not helped by the fact that fans of Monolith's work like to lump them together anyway, even those who are 100% aware of this fact. Thus, they are called "the Xeno series" for the sake of brevity, which can be misleading for casual observers and newcomers (some fans have suggested to use "the Xeno games" or "the Xeno metaseries" instead, but with little avail).

* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: A good deal of the problems with Episode II were the result of this. Several of the voice actors were changed, the art style was changed to a more realistic look, which is bad if you liked the old look, and the battle system was changed, probably for the worse due to the above mentioned scrappy mechanic. The drama with said changes was so bad, the admin of the fansite Zenosaga.com (who was the biggest fansite at the time) would ban anyone on the forums if that person defended the game.
** The same thing was also said about the anime's voice actors - in part because some of the voice actors (namely Epcar) didn't even ''know'' they were dubbing it, and they would have happily reprised their roles.

* PolishedPort: Despite the technical downgrades necessary to make it run on the Nintendo DS, the various changes ''Xenosaga I&II'' makes to the story and gameplay are generally considered to make for a vastly improved experience in many ways, especially for the heavily-maligned Episode II. The plot of both games was heavily rewritten to be more cohesive and less confusing like the single game they were [[WhatCouldHaveBeen originally intended to be]], and the static anime cutscenes avoid the issues that plagued its console equivalents. Sadly, it was [[NoExportForYou never brought to the West]].

* RelationshipWritingFumble: The developers seemed to intend for KOS-MOS and Shion's relationship to appear platonic, but they typically appear '''MUCH''' closer than that. For what it's worth, the writers seem to flipflop between portraying their relationship as [[LesYay romantic]] or a mother-daughter one. Or [[TakeAThirdOption possibly]] [[IncestSubtext both]], considering the motherly traits of various other official ''Xeno'' love interests.