Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / TheMuppetChristmasCarol

Go To

OR

Added: 769

Changed: 575

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BrokenBase: "When Love Is Gone". The opinions about this song and whether or not is should be in the movie at all vary wildly. Some fans love the song for its TearJerker quality and as a tragic sum-up of how Scrooge's life has essentially lost all semblance of happiness and humanity at this point, while others think the movie is better off for not including it, at least partly because Belle is such an underdeveloped character and her relationship with Scrooge has been entirely off-screen and so it feels a little like overkill to dedicating a four minute song to lamenting it end. The website Tough Pigs summed it up thusly when [[https://toughpigs.com/xmascarol-1/ they talked about the movie]]:

to:

* BrokenBase: "When Love Is Gone". The opinions about this song and whether or not is should be in the movie at all vary wildly.
**
Some fans love the song for its TearJerker quality and as a tragic sum-up of how Scrooge's life has essentially lost all semblance of happiness and humanity at this point, while others point. It shows Scrooge's grief and pain even decades later, and finally leaves him open to hearing what the spirits are saying. Plus, without it the crying reactions of everyone else seem out of place.
** Others
think the movie is better off for not including it, at least partly because Belle is such an underdeveloped character and her relationship with Scrooge has been entirely off-screen and so it feels a little like overkill to dedicating a four minute song to lamenting it end. The website Tough Pigs summed it up thusly when [[https://toughpigs.com/xmascarol-1/ they talked about the movie]]:

Added: 248

Changed: 700

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BrokenBase: "When Love Is Gone". You will find fans who feel the movie plays fine without the sequence and some who feel the addition added to the film's quality.

to:

* BrokenBase: "When Love Is Gone". You will find fans who feel The opinions about this song and whether or not is should be in the movie plays fine without at all vary wildly. Some fans love the sequence song for its TearJerker quality and some as a tragic sum-up of how Scrooge's life has essentially lost all semblance of happiness and humanity at this point, while others think the movie is better off for not including it, at least partly because Belle is such an underdeveloped character and her relationship with Scrooge has been entirely off-screen and so it feels a little like overkill to dedicating a four minute song to lamenting it end. The website Tough Pigs summed it up thusly when [[https://toughpigs.com/xmascarol-1/ they talked about the movie]]:
-->“When Love Is Gone” is everything that’s wrong with this movie. What made them think that I wanted to see a character
who feel we just met one scene ago singing a slow song about the addition added to the film's quality.end of a relationship we haven’t seen? I don’t even know this girl.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
No source's state the film was the first to use a green screen


** The first film to ever use a ''green'' screen (instead of a blue screen), which allowed a tremendously beautiful blue nighttime flight scene.

to:

** The first film to ever use a ''green'' film's green screen (instead of a blue screen), which allowed allows for a tremendously beautiful blue nighttime flight scene.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** "Oh sweet, they're going to do a version of Christmas Carol with Muppets. Fun! Wait, with ''Sir Michael Caine''?!" It worked, however, and Caine is one of the most memorable actors in the role; he's completely serious and crochety. Caine went on record as saying he had a ball with the production, adding that the best way to interact with the Muppets is to treat them all as though they're members of the Royal Shakespeare Company.

to:

** "Oh sweet, they're going to do a version of Christmas Carol with Muppets. Fun! Wait, with ''Sir Michael Caine''?!" It worked, however, and Caine is one of the most memorable actors in the role; he's completely serious and crochety. Caine went on record as saying he had a ball with the production, adding that the best way to interact with the Muppets is to treat them all as though they're members of the Royal Shakespeare Company. Smart guy.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Intriguingly, the old lady muppets were right: There really was a sweet man inside Scrooge — you just had to dig really deep inside to even see him, let alone get him out!

Changed: 172

Removed: 40

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: "Scrooge". "One More Sleep 'til Christmas". "Marley and Marley". "It Feels like Christmas". "Bless Us All". "With a Thankful Heart".
** Honestly, the entire score in general

to:

* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: "Scrooge". "One More Sleep 'til Christmas". "Marley and Marley". "It Feels like Christmas". "Bless Us All". "With a Thankful Heart".
**
Honestly, the entire score in generalscore, fondly remembered as some of Paul Williams' best Muppets work.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* {{Adorkable}}: Scrooge of all people during the song "It Feels Like Christmas," showing that he is becoming a DefrostingIceKing. After facing the tragedy of his past, he starts to smile and laugh with the Christmas Present, who shows him the joys of the holiday. Then he tries to imitate Christmas Present's swinging dance, but he is so stiff that it looks silly, and misses that Christmas Present stops.

to:

* {{Adorkable}}: Scrooge of all people during the song "It Feels Like Christmas," showing that [[DefrostingIceQueen when he is becoming a DefrostingIceKing.finally starts loosening up and enjoying himself]]. After facing the tragedy of his past, he starts to smile and laugh with the Christmas Present, who shows him the joys of the holiday. Then he tries to imitate Christmas Present's swinging dance, but he is so stiff that it looks silly, and misses that Christmas Present stops.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ExecutiveMeddling: Disney originally objected to the inclusion of "When Love is Gone" in the film, claiming that the younger audience would be unable to handle such an emotionally intense scene. Director Brian Henson objected but removed it from the original Theatrical Cut when given the ultimatum of his team doing the edit or leaving it to Disney Executives to edit the film instead. The initial VHS release of the film and some early DVD releases of the film included the scene, but when Disney re-released it once DVD was more widespread and Blu-Ray came in, they only had the Theatrical Cut as a source for remastering. In 2020 Disney finally found a way to properly remaster the scene and reinstated it for the Disney+ version of the film.

Added: 1553

Removed: 1605

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ExecutiveMeddling: Disney originally objected to the inclusion of "When Love is Gone" in the film, claiming that the younger audience would be unable to handle such an emotionally intense scene. Director Brian Henson objected but removed it from the original Theatrical Cut when given the ultimatum of his team doing the edit or leaving it to Disney Executives to edit the film instead. The initial VHS release of the film and some early DVD releases of the film included the scene, but when Disney re-released it once DVD was more widespread and Blu-Ray came in, they only had the Theatrical Cut as a source for remastering. In 2020 Disney finally found a way to properly remaster the scene and reinstated it for the Disney+ version of the film.



* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: Without "When Love is Gone", the scene of Scrooge and Belle's breakup is incredibly short and lacks emotional weight when Scrooges pleading with the Spirit of Christmas Past suggests it's massively painful moment in his life and makes the crying at the end feel a bit overdone. With the scene, Belle sings passionately about how much she believed in their love, but now sees he has chosen a path she can't follow but genuinely wishes him well. Young Scrooge tries a half-hearted effort to stop her, before choosing to walk away. Belle briefly turns to see he is gone as she expected, and Present Day Scrooge joins in song at first with her, then gradually breaks into silent tears as he recalls she is a shadow of the past and nothing he can do will stop her walking away again.



* ExecutiveMeddling: Disney originally objected to the inclusion of "When Love is Gone" in the film, claiming that the younger audience would be unable to handle such an emotionally intense scene. Director Brian Henson objected but removed it from the original Theatrical Cut when given the ultimatum of his team doing the edit or leaving it to Disney Executives to edit the film instead. The initial VHS release of the film and some early DVD releases of the film included the scene, but when Disney re-released it once DVD was more widespread and Blu-Ray came in, they only had the Theatrical Cut as a source for remastering. In 2020 Disney finally found a way to properly remaster the scene and reinstated it for the Disney+ version of the film.
* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: More accurately, they changed it now it's better. Without "When Love is Gone" the scene of Scrooge and Belle's breakup is incredibly short and lacks emotional weight when Scrooges pleading with the Spirit of Christmas Past suggests it's massively painful moment in his life and makes the crying at the end feel a bit overdone. With the scene - Belle sings passionately about how much she believed in their love, but now sees he has chosen a path she can't follow but genuinely wishes him well. Young Scrooge tries a half-hearted effort to stop her, before choosing to walk away. Belle briefly turns to see he is gone as she expected, and Present Day Scrooge joins in song at first with her, then gradually breaks into silent tears as he recalls she is a shadow of the past and nothing he can do will stop her walking away again.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*TheyChangedItNowItSucks: More accurately, they changed it now it's better. Without "When Love is Gone" the scene of Scrooge and Belle's breakup is incredibly short and lacks emotional weight when Scrooges pleading with the Spirit of Christmas Past suggests it's massively painful moment in his life and makes the crying at the end feel a bit overdone. With the scene - Belle sings passionately about how much she believed in their love, but now sees he has chosen a path she can't follow but genuinely wishes him well. Young Scrooge tries a half-hearted effort to stop her, before choosing to walk away. Belle briefly turns to see he is gone as she expected, and Present Day Scrooge joins in song at first with her, then gradually breaks into silent tears as he recalls she is a shadow of the past and nothing he can do will stop her walking away again.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*ExecutiveMeddling: Disney originally objected to the inclusion of "When Love is Gone" in the film, claiming that the younger audience would be unable to handle such an emotionally intense scene. Director Brian Henson objected but removed it from the original Theatrical Cut when given the ultimatum of his team doing the edit or leaving it to Disney Executives to edit the film instead. The initial VHS release of the film and some early DVD releases of the film included the scene, but when Disney re-released it once DVD was more widespread and Blu-Ray came in, they only had the Theatrical Cut as a source for remastering. In 2020 Disney finally found a way to properly remaster the scene and reinstated it for the Disney+ version of the film.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FunnyAneurysmMoment: The choir of elderly lady Muppets saying that Scrooge must be lonely and sad, then changing their minds when he ignores them, is PlayedForLaughs. Then we discover his backstory, showing they were right.

to:

* FunnyAneurysmMoment: An intentional in-universe example. The choir of elderly lady Muppets saying that Scrooge must be lonely and sad, then changing their minds when he ignores them, is PlayedForLaughs. Then we discover his backstory, showing they were right.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* JerkassWoobie: Scrooge was a very unpleasant person, but deep down he is a person with great sadness and loneliness.

to:

* JerkassWoobie: Double subverted with Scrooge. Some old women theorize that he is a lonely and sad person, only to deny it shortly after, it eventually turns out that Scrooge was a very unpleasant person, but deep down he is indeed a person with great sadness lonely and loneliness.sad person.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* JerkassWoobie: Scrooge was a very unpleasant person, but deep down he is a person with great sadness and loneliness.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** According to the Behind the Voice Actors voice compare section, Jerry Nelson IS The Ghost of Christmas Present, hands down!

to:

** According to If the Behind the Voice Actors voice compare section, section is to be believed, Jerry Nelson IS The Ghost of Christmas Present, hands down!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** According to the Behind the Voice Actors voice compare section, Jerry Nelson IS The Ghost of Christmas Present, hands down!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Cleaning up Mexicans Love Speedy Gonzales and removing misuse


* MexicansLoveSpeedyGonzales: Outside of the Muppet fanbase, Charles Dickens fans are some of the biggest supporters of the film because, Muppets antics aside, the film is very faithful to the story and uses much of Dickens' original prose, both in dialogue and narration.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CantUnhearIt: Creator/MichaelCaine's performance in this film is widely considered to be one of the most iconic cinematic portrayals of Scrooge.

to:

* CantUnhearIt: CantUnHearIt: Creator/MichaelCaine's performance in this film is widely considered to be one of the most iconic cinematic portrayals of Scrooge.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Adding Narm

Added DiffLines:

* {{Narm}}: Michael Caine plays Scrooge throughout the film as if he were in a non-Muppet production, so it's a bit silly when he says he used to work at "Mr. Fozziwig's Rubber Chicken Factory."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:

Added DiffLines:

--->'''Michael Caine:''' I'm going to play this movie like I'm working with the Royal Shakespeare Company. I will never wink, I will never do anything Muppety. I am going to play Scrooge as if it is an utterly dramatic role and there are no puppets around me.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AudienceColoringAdaptation: Thanks partly to the influence of this version, many productions will portray Christmas Past as a female, or at least played by a woman. ''WesternAnimation/SabrinaTheAnimatedSeries'' lampshades this when Hilda is playing Christmas Past, and Sabrina gets annoyed at her for dressing too glamorously.


Added DiffLines:

* OneSceneWonder:
** Fred's wife Clara only appears in one prominent scene, besides a cameo in "Thankful Heart". But Robin Weaver is such a delightful GenkiGirl, and has such an adorable smile when she gets a present from Scrooge.
** And of course Meredith Braun as Belle, whose emotional performance of "When Love Is Gone" sticks in memory. Even without the song, the way she responds to Scrooge's "I love you" with "you did once" still makes the scene.
* RetroactiveRecognition: While you wouldn't know it unless you checked the end credits, Christmas Past is voiced by Jessica Fox. A few years later, she'd play Enid Nightshade in ''Literature/TheWorstWitch'' and more famously, Nancy in ''{{Series/Hollyoaks}}''.

Added: 194

Removed: 194

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* WinBackTheCrowd: People were very skeptical about how well Muppet projects could work without Creator/JimHenson to guide them. This film proved there was still plenty of life in the franchise.



* WinBackTheCrowd: People were very skeptical about how well Muppet projects could work without Creator/JimHenson to guide them. This film proved there was still plenty of life in the franchise.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* NewerThanTheyThink: A lot of people assume that Statler and Waldorf always said "dohohohoho" when laughing. However that specific laugh started with this film after Dave Goelz and Jerry Nelson took over the characters. Prior to that on The Muppet Show their laugh was closer to "ehehehehe"
* NightmareRetardant: When the doorknob turns into Jacob Marley and yells Scrooge's name, Rizzo and Gonzo fall off their carriage screaming when their horse gets spooked by it. The transformation itself is also rather silly.

to:

* NewerThanTheyThink: A lot of people assume that Statler and Waldorf always said "dohohohoho" when laughing. However that specific laugh started with this film after Dave Goelz and Jerry Nelson took over the characters. Prior to that on The Muppet Show ''Series/TheMuppetShow'' their laugh was closer to "ehehehehe"
* NightmareRetardant: When the doorknob turns into Jacob Marley and yells Scrooge's name, Rizzo and Gonzo fall off their carriage screaming when their horse gets spooked by it. The transformation itself is also rather silly.silly, if only because it's Statler.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CantUnhearIt: Creator/MichaelCaine gives one of the best portrayals of Scrooge.

to:

* CantUnhearIt: Creator/MichaelCaine gives Creator/MichaelCaine's performance in this film is widely considered to be one of the best most iconic cinematic portrayals of Scrooge.



** Although he already had a prolific career as an actor, try finding anyone who believes there to be a better Ebenezer Scrooge than Michael Caine's; Today, his is considered one of the most iconic actors to play the part, especially among children who grew up in that era.

to:

** Although he already had a prolific career as an actor, try finding anyone who believes there to be a better portrayal of Ebenezer Scrooge than Michael Caine's; Today, Creator/MichaelCaine. Despite the film's comedic tone, Caine plays the part completely straight, and when only watching his is considered one scenes, you'd never suspect that he was acting opposite a cast that was mainly comprised of the most iconic actors to play the part, especially among children who grew up in that era. Muppets.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The BadFuture has two moments: one is that several ladies went into Scrooge's house after he died and robbed his stuff. One lady got his bedsheets. The pawnbroker feels them and says, "Still warm! I don't pay extra for warmth, you know." To make it a BrickJoke, Scrooge wakes up in his room and checks that his bedsheets and curtains are in place.
** Christmas Future also takes Scrooge to his grave. Scrooge is having TearsOfRemorse and trying to deny whose name is on the grave, trying to go to another one. Christmas Future points decisively as if saying, "Nice try, buddy." It's a nice bit of MoodWhiplash before Scrooge wipes the snow away from the tombstone.

Added: 770

Changed: 376

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* {{Adorkable}}: Scrooge of all people during the song "It Feels Like Christmas," showing that he is becoming a DefrostingIceKing. After facing the tragedy of his past, he starts to smile and laugh with the Christmas Present, who shows him the joys of the holiday. Then he tries to imitate Christmas Present's swinging dance, but he is so stiff that it looks silly, and misses that Christmas Present stops.



* UncannyValley: The Ghost of Christmas Past. The effect of a human-like puppet operated in a water tank and added in via green-screen is eerie.

to:

* UncannyValley: The Ghost of Christmas Past. The effect of a human-like puppet operated in a water tank and added in via green-screen is eerie. Scrooge is both entranced and scared, since she is meant to be a physical representation of his past and innocence.



* SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome: The first film to ever use a ''green'' screen (instead of a blue screen), which allowed a tremendously beautiful blue nighttime flight scene.

to:

* SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome: SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome:
**
The first film to ever use a ''green'' screen (instead of a blue screen), which allowed a tremendously beautiful blue nighttime flight scene.scene.
** Christmas Present is one of the largest Muppets ever employed, even taller than Scrooge, and he is ''amazing''. Even today, you can believe he's a giant full of laughter as he transports Scrooge to Christmas morning.



** "Oh sweet, they're going to do a version of Christmas Carol with Muppets. Fun! Wait, with ''Sir Michael Caine''?!" Caine went on record as saying he had a ball with the production, adding that the best way to interact with the Muppets is to treat them all as though they're members of the Royal Shakespeare Company.

to:

** "Oh sweet, they're going to do a version of Christmas Carol with Muppets. Fun! Wait, with ''Sir Michael Caine''?!" It worked, however, and Caine is one of the most memorable actors in the role; he's completely serious and crochety. Caine went on record as saying he had a ball with the production, adding that the best way to interact with the Muppets is to treat them all as though they're members of the Royal Shakespeare Company.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Removing as per discussion on the Hindsight cleanup thread


* HarsherInHindsight: [[BadFuture Tiny Tim's death]] became even more heartbreaking after his puppeteer, Jerry Nelson, passed away in 2012 due to complications from multiple illnesses. Even better, they both had an IncurableCoughOfDeath. Likewise, the eerily sad fading of the Ghost of Christmas Present, also performed by Nelson.

Added: 238

Changed: 1217

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpecialEffectFailure: While the green-screen compositing is otherwise done excellently throughout, there's a shot in "Marley and Marley" [[note]]Specifically, during the lines ''"Doomed, Scrooge, you're doomed for all time!/Your future is a horror story written by your crime..."''[[/note]] where it's a little too obvious that Statler and Waldorf have been superimposed ''over'' the footage of Michael Caine, rather than actually existing in the same space as him. Unfortunate and noticeable, because the "ghost" effect is otherwise flawless throughout.
** The Ghost of Christmas Past is otherwise well-portrayed with eerie effects that still hold up years later, but the close-up shot of Scrooge grasping her hand make it very obvious that he's grabbing onto a piece of plastic.

to:

* SpecialEffectFailure: SpecialEffectFailure:
**
While the green-screen compositing is otherwise done excellently throughout, there's a shot in "Marley and Marley" [[note]]Specifically, during the lines ''"Doomed, Scrooge, you're doomed for all time!/Your future is a horror story written by your crime..."''[[/note]] where it's a little too obvious that Statler and Waldorf have been superimposed ''over'' the footage of Michael Caine, rather than actually existing in the same space as him. Unfortunate and noticeable, because the "ghost" effect is otherwise flawless throughout.
** The Ghost of Christmas Past is otherwise well-portrayed with eerie effects that still hold up years later, but the close-up shot of Scrooge grasping her hand make it very obvious that he's Michael Caine is grabbing onto on to a piece of plastic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: This is ''the'' Christmas movie in the United Kingdom. During its original release it topped the box office for two weeks in a row, Channel 4 (Until 2019, when it was bought out by cable network Sky) airs the film every Christmas,[[note]]Traditionally on Christmas Eve, although occasionally on the day itself in the morning or early afternoon[[/note]] and ever since 2012, the uncut version of the film is released into theaters every Christmas in a select number of theaters alongside ''WesternAnimation/{{Frozen|2013}}'' beginning in 2014.
* HarsherInHindsight: [[BadFuture Tiny Tim's death]] is even more heartbreaking now that his puppeteer, Jerry Nelson, has passed away due to complications from multiple illnesses. Even better, they both had an IncurableCoughOfDeath. Likewise, the eerily sad fading of the Ghost of Christmas Present, also performed by Nelson.

to:

* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: This is ''the'' Christmas movie in the United Kingdom. During its original release it topped the box office for two weeks in a row, Channel 4 (Until 2019, when row. Its popularity endures in the country to this day - until it was bought out by cable network Sky) airs Sky in 2019, Channel 4 aired the film every Christmas,[[note]]Traditionally Christmas[[note]]Traditionally on Christmas Eve, although occasionally on the day itself in the morning or early afternoon[[/note]] afternoon[[/note]], and ever since 2012, the uncut version of the film is released into theaters every Christmas in a select number of theaters theaters, alongside ''WesternAnimation/{{Frozen|2013}}'' beginning in 2014.
* HarsherInHindsight: [[BadFuture Tiny Tim's death]] is became even more heartbreaking now that after his puppeteer, Jerry Nelson, has passed away in 2012 due to complications from multiple illnesses. Even better, they both had an IncurableCoughOfDeath. Likewise, the eerily sad fading of the Ghost of Christmas Present, also performed by Nelson.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Jacob and Robert Marley reminiscing about the time they shut down an orphanage, joyfully recalling the poor children and their frostbitten teddy bears.

to:

** Jacob and Robert Marley reminiscing about the time they shut down an orphanage, joyfully recalling the poor children and their frostbitten teddy bears. And then even they realize that they've gone too far.

Top