Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / TheMentalist

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Todd Johnson: Did he [[spoiler: murder cops just ForTheEvulz?]] Or did [[spoiler: Red John order him to kill those cops for specific reasons?]] While his appearance in season 3 initially leans towards the former interpretation, the revelation in season 6 about [[spoiler: the Blake Association]] casts it in a different light. If [[spoiler: Johnson's killing of cops had to do with the Blake Association]] was it because [[said cops were former association members who turned traitor and needed to be silenced?]] Or was it because [[spoiler: they had found out about the association and were doing an investigation into it?]]

Added: 106

Changed: 37

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FanPreferredCouple: Jane and Lisbon.

to:

* FanPreferredCouple: Jane and Lisbon. Or Jisbon as fans prefer to call it.
** To a lesser extent, Rigsby and Van Pelt are also considered this. Same with Wylie and Vega in season 7.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FranchiseOriginalSin: Some of the issues that people complained about the Red John arc were issues that were present in the early seasons, but were mostly kept under wraps:
** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area that the CBI Team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] in season 2 were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when [[spoiler: his father was taken to prison,]] which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were just 2-3 associates of Red John. This started to become a problem from season 3 onwards when that number increased to over a dozen and there was little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John, or why they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf. The show tried to write this off by revealing in season 5 that [[spoiler: Red John had been a member of the cult Visualize back in the 80s and picked up tips from there on how to manipulate people]] and in season 6 that [[spoiler: Red John was the leader of the Blake Association, which was a group of corrupt law enforcement officials dedicated to covering up heinous crimes]], but for many people, these revelations broke WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief as we never really get to see how Red John [[spoiler: formed the Blake Association]] or his techniques for [[spoiler: brainwashing people to commit morally reprehensible acts.]]

to:

* FranchiseOriginalSin: Some of the issues that people fans complained about with the Red John arc were issues that were present in the early seasons, but were mostly kept under wraps:
** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is were the number of associates that are were revealed to be working for him Red John over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area that the CBI Team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] in season 2 were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when [[spoiler: his father was taken to prison,]] which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were just 2-3 associates of Red John. This started to become a problem from season 3 onwards onward when that number increased to over a dozen and there was little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John, or why they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf. The show tried to write hand-wave this off by revealing in season 5 that [[spoiler: Red John had been a member of the cult Visualize back in the 80s and picked up tips from there on how to manipulate people]] and in season 6 that [[spoiler: Red John was the leader of the Blake Association, which was a group of corrupt law enforcement officials dedicated to covering up heinous crimes]], but for many people, these revelations broke WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief as we never really get to see how Red John [[spoiler: formed the Blake Association]] or his techniques for [[spoiler: brainwashing people to commit morally reprehensible acts.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area that the CBI Team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] in season 2 were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf. The show tried to write this off by revealing in season 5 that [[spoiler: Red John had been a member of the cult Visualize, and possibly picked up on tips on how to manipulate people]] and in season 6 that [[spoiler: Red John was the leader of the Blake Association, which was a group of corrupt law enforcement officials dedicated to covering up heinous crimes]], but for many people, these reveals broke WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief as we never really get to see how Red John [[spoiler: formed the Blake Association]] or his techniques for [[spoiler: brainwashing people to commit morally reprehensible acts.]]

to:

** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area that the CBI Team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] in season 2 were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when [[spoiler: his father was taken to prison, prison,]] which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were only just 2-3 associates of Red John. This started to become a problem in from season 3 onwards when that number increased to over a dozen and there were was little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that John, or why they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, (rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf. The show tried to write this off by revealing in season 5 that [[spoiler: Red John had been a member of the cult Visualize, Visualize back in the 80s and possibly picked up on tips from there on how to manipulate people]] and in season 6 that [[spoiler: Red John was the leader of the Blake Association, which was a group of corrupt law enforcement officials dedicated to covering up heinous crimes]], but for many people, these reveals revelations broke WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief as we never really get to see how Red John [[spoiler: formed the Blake Association]] or his techniques for [[spoiler: brainwashing people to commit morally reprehensible acts.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area that the CBI Team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] in season 2 were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John, which is not uncommon for serial killers to have. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf. The show tried to write this off by revealing in season 5 that [[spoiler: Red John had been a member of the cult Visualize, and possibly picked up on tips on how to manipulate people]] and in season 6 that [[spoiler: Red John was the leader of the Blake Association, which was a group of corrupt law enforcement officials dedicated to covering up heinous crimes]], but for many people, these reveals broke WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief as we never really get to see how Red John [[spoiler: formed the Blake Association]] or his techniques for [[spoiler: brainwashing people to commit morally reprehensible acts.]]

to:

** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area that the CBI Team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] in season 2 were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John, which is not uncommon for serial killers to have.John. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf. The show tried to write this off by revealing in season 5 that [[spoiler: Red John had been a member of the cult Visualize, and possibly picked up on tips on how to manipulate people]] and in season 6 that [[spoiler: Red John was the leader of the Blake Association, which was a group of corrupt law enforcement officials dedicated to covering up heinous crimes]], but for many people, these reveals broke WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief as we never really get to see how Red John [[spoiler: formed the Blake Association]] or his techniques for [[spoiler: brainwashing people to commit morally reprehensible acts.]]

Added: 379

Changed: 185

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SpecialEffectsFailure: In "The War of the Roses," when Erica Flynn is supposedly sunning herself on a tropical beach, she's clearly just sitting on a soundstage in front of a rather cheap green screen effect.

to:

* SpecialEffectsFailure: SpecialEffectsFailure:
**
In "The War of the Roses," when Erica Flynn is supposedly sunning herself on a tropical beach, she's clearly just sitting on a soundstage in front of a rather cheap green screen effect.effect.
** While the show was usually good at avoiding this, it's pretty obvious that [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfneQaVTuOI the background behind Jane]] in "Wedding in Red" is green-screened.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area the team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] in season 2 were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John, which is not uncommon for serial killers to have. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf. The show tried to write this off by revealing in season 5 that [[spoiler: Red John had been a member of the cult Visualize, and possibly picked up on tips on how to manipulate people]] and in season 6 that [[spoiler: Red John was the leader of the Blake Association, which was a group of corrupt law enforcement officials dedicated to covering up heinous crimes]], but for many people, these reveals broke WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief as we never really get to see how Red John [[spoiler: formed the Blake Association]] or his techniques for [[spoiler: brainwashing people to commit morally reprehensible acts.]]

to:

** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area that the team CBI Team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] in season 2 were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John, which is not uncommon for serial killers to have. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf. The show tried to write this off by revealing in season 5 that [[spoiler: Red John had been a member of the cult Visualize, and possibly picked up on tips on how to manipulate people]] and in season 6 that [[spoiler: Red John was the leader of the Blake Association, which was a group of corrupt law enforcement officials dedicated to covering up heinous crimes]], but for many people, these reveals broke WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief as we never really get to see how Red John [[spoiler: formed the Blake Association]] or his techniques for [[spoiler: brainwashing people to commit morally reprehensible acts.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area the team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] in season 2 were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John, which is not uncommon for serial killers to have. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf. The show tried to write this off by revealing in season 5 that [[spoiler: Red John had been a member of the cult Visualize, and possibly picked up on tips on how to manipulate people]] and in season 6 that [[spoiler: Red John was the leader of the Blake Association, which was a group of corrupt law enforcement officials dedicated to covering up heinous crimes]], but for many people, these reveals broke WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief as we never really get to see how Red John [[spoiler: formed the Blake Association]] or his techniques for manipulating people to commit morally reprehensible acts.

to:

** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area the team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] in season 2 were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John, which is not uncommon for serial killers to have. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf. The show tried to write this off by revealing in season 5 that [[spoiler: Red John had been a member of the cult Visualize, and possibly picked up on tips on how to manipulate people]] and in season 6 that [[spoiler: Red John was the leader of the Blake Association, which was a group of corrupt law enforcement officials dedicated to covering up heinous crimes]], but for many people, these reveals broke WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief as we never really get to see how Red John [[spoiler: formed the Blake Association]] or his techniques for manipulating [[spoiler: brainwashing people to commit morally reprehensible acts. acts.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area the team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John, which is not uncommon for serial killers to have. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf.

to:

** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area the team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] in season 2 were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John, which is not uncommon for serial killers to have. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf. The show tried to write this off by revealing in season 5 that [[spoiler: Red John had been a member of the cult Visualize, and possibly picked up on tips on how to manipulate people]] and in season 6 that [[spoiler: Red John was the leader of the Blake Association, which was a group of corrupt law enforcement officials dedicated to covering up heinous crimes]], but for many people, these reveals broke WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief as we never really get to see how Red John [[spoiler: formed the Blake Association]] or his techniques for manipulating people to commit morally reprehensible acts.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area the team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John, which is not uncommon with serial killers. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf.

to:

** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area the team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, at the time, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John, which is not uncommon with for serial killers.killers to have. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area the team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her.

to:

** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area the team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her. Plus, these were only 2-3 associates of Red John, which is not uncommon with serial killers. This started to become a problem in season 3 when that number increased to over a dozen and there were little to no explanation given for why these people were so loyal to Red John that they'd be willing to commit horrific acts (such as rape, kidnapping, torture, murder, etc) on his behalf.

Added: 1463

Changed: 37

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Season 5: [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Thomas "Tommy" Volker]] is a greedy executive responsible for slaughtering over 300 Amazonian tribesmen for refusing to relinquish their land to be used for his geothermal project. When a journalist links him to the massacre, Volker manipulates an old friend into sabotaging her car, having the journalist suffocated, the evidence stolen and his "friend" left as the fall guy. After CBI Agent Teresa Lisbon convinces Volker's secretary to provide evidence against him, Volker has his assassin strangle her to death while he looks on, smiling, and planning to have the same done to another employee of his who planned to go public with Volker's crimes. Later having his own assassin killed in a drive-by shooting, along with two innocent bystanders, for [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness becoming inconvenient]], Volker also plans to kill another of his own goons for being interrogated by the police and attempts to personally [[WouldHurtAChild murder a young boy]] who witnessed one of his own crimes when even his own hitman is too disgusted to do so. Loyal to no one, Volker is a disgusting man who embodies avarice.

to:

** Season 5: [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Thomas "Tommy" Volker]] is a greedy executive responsible for slaughtering over 300 Amazonian tribesmen for refusing to relinquish their land to be used for his geothermal project. When a journalist links him to the massacre, Volker manipulates an old friend into sabotaging her car, having the journalist suffocated, the evidence stolen and his "friend" left as the fall guy. After CBI Agent Teresa Lisbon convinces Volker's secretary to provide evidence against him, Volker has his assassin strangle her to death while he looks on, smiling, and planning to have the same done to another employee of his who planned to go public with Volker's crimes. Later having his own assassin killed in a drive-by shooting, along with two innocent bystanders, for [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness becoming inconvenient]], Volker also plans to kill another of his own goons for being interrogated by the police and attempts to personally [[WouldHurtAChild murder a young boy]] who witnessed one of his own crimes when [[EvenEvilHasStandards even his own hitman is too disgusted to do so. so.]] Loyal to no one, Volker is a disgusting vile man who embodies avarice.


Added DiffLines:

* FranchiseOriginalSin: Some of the issues that people complained about the Red John arc were issues that were present in the early seasons, but were mostly kept under wraps:
** One of the biggest criticisms about the Red John arc in general is the number of associates that are revealed to be working for him over the course of the series, with some of these reveals being seen as [[AssPull Ass Pulls]] by fans. This was actually something that existed in the first two seasons where the reveal that [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner, the local sheriff in the area the team is investigating]] in season 1 and [[spoiler: Rebecca Anderson, Sam Bosco's secretary at the CBI]] were helping Red John carry out the worst of his crimes. This was excused in the early seasons because there was at least an in-universe explanation given for why these people worked for Red John: [[spoiler: Dumar Tanner]] from season 1 was revealed to be [[spoiler: the son of Orville Tanner, who had aided Red John in committing his first murder in 1998.]] Furthermore, it's implied that Red John acted as a ParentalSubstitute to [[spoiler: Dumar]] when his father was taken to prison, which explains why he's devoted to Red John. Likewise in season 2, when [[spoiler: Rebecca]] is revealed to be a Red John associate, Jane deduces that [[spoiler: she]] [[FreudianExcuse came from an abusive upbringing]] which caused a history of self-hatred on [[spoiler: her]] part until Red John "rescued" her.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
YMMV cannot be Played With and I Knew It is Trivia


* AcceptableTargets: {{Deconstructed}} with the character of Richard Haibach, who is on the receiving end of this trope as the main cast knows him only as an ex-con whose crime was child molestation, and treats him accordingly with utter contempt. They basically harass him in every one of his appearances and do everything from accusing him of child murder to using him as ''bait'' for dangerous killers culminating with him being kidnapped and tortured as part of a (failed) plan by Jane to catch Red John. The result is that he snaps and goes on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge against the whole team, whereupon his backstory as a victim of abuse of his own is expounded upon, resulting in a very unusual example of a ''pedophile'' getting a sympathetic treatment...albeit, perhaps from the audience more than the cast, who still hate his guts by the end of it, especially after he targeted them and killed some of their friends.



* IKnewIt: In 6x09. Who ''didn't'' see "Kim's" and Abbot's [[{{Series/Firefly}} sudden but inevitable betrayal]] coming? They're federal, it's what they do.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[spoiler: LaRoche]] is last seen bleeding out form a gunshot, as Rigsby tries to save him but seems to get more upset. The next episode mentions him as dead, but the main characters [[AngstWhatAngst limited reaction to this]] and the fact that they might have seen an advantage in letting his attacker think he'd died do cast a little doubt on it.

to:

** [[spoiler: LaRoche]] [=LaRoche=]]] is last seen bleeding out form a gunshot, as Rigsby tries to save him but seems to get more upset. The next episode mentions him as dead, but the main characters [[AngstWhatAngst limited reaction to this]] and the fact that they might have seen an advantage in letting his attacker think he'd died do cast a little doubt on it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Zero context example


* DesignatedHero: Jane.

Changed: 111

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The sociopathic SerialKiller Cale Sylvan, from season 2's "Blood Money", makes his living as a [[PsychoForHire hitman]] to get paid for his disgusting hobby. Connected to the "mysterious" deaths of seven people, Sylvan's most recent victim is District Attorney Kelly Flower, who he took the time to videotape begging for her life as a trophy to keep for himself. Although arrested, Sylvan is released and later found in his murder house, with a terrified captive man he plans to kill, and after Sylvan's own death, multiple bodies are found in the yard of the property.
** [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Thomas "Tommy" Volker]], from season 5, is a greedy executive responsible for slaughtering over 300 Amazonian tribesmen for refusing to relinquish their land to be used for his geothermal project. When a journalist links him to the massacre, Volker manipulates an old friend into sabotaging her car, having the journalist suffocated, the evidence stolen and his "friend" left as the fall guy. After CBI Agent Teresa Lisbon convinces Volker's secretary to provide evidence against him, Volker has his assassin strangle her to death while he looks on, smiling, and planning to have the same done to another employee of his who planned to go public with Volker's crimes. Later having his own assassin killed in a drive-by shooting, along with two innocent bystanders, for [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness becoming inconvenient]], Volker also plans to kill another of his own goons for being interrogated by the police and attempts to personally [[WouldHurtAChild murder a young boy]] who witnessed one of his own crimes when even his own hitman is too disgusted to do so. Loyal to no one, Volker is a disgusting man who embodies avarice.

to:

** "[[Recap/TheMentalistS2E19BloodMoney Blood Money]]": The sociopathic SerialKiller Cale Sylvan, from season 2's "Blood Money", Sylvan makes his living as a [[PsychoForHire hitman]] to get paid for his disgusting hobby. Connected to the "mysterious" deaths of seven people, Sylvan's most recent victim is District Attorney Kelly Flower, who he took the time to videotape begging for her life as a trophy to keep for himself. Although arrested, Sylvan is released and later found in his murder house, with a terrified captive man he plans to kill, and after Sylvan's own death, multiple bodies are found in the yard of the property.
** Season 5: [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Thomas "Tommy" Volker]], from season 5, Volker]] is a greedy executive responsible for slaughtering over 300 Amazonian tribesmen for refusing to relinquish their land to be used for his geothermal project. When a journalist links him to the massacre, Volker manipulates an old friend into sabotaging her car, having the journalist suffocated, the evidence stolen and his "friend" left as the fall guy. After CBI Agent Teresa Lisbon convinces Volker's secretary to provide evidence against him, Volker has his assassin strangle her to death while he looks on, smiling, and planning to have the same done to another employee of his who planned to go public with Volker's crimes. Later having his own assassin killed in a drive-by shooting, along with two innocent bystanders, for [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness becoming inconvenient]], Volker also plans to kill another of his own goons for being interrogated by the police and attempts to personally [[WouldHurtAChild murder a young boy]] who witnessed one of his own crimes when even his own hitman is too disgusted to do so. Loyal to no one, Volker is a disgusting man who embodies avarice.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: The episode "Red Carpet Treatment" teaches us that revenge is sweet and totally worth investing years of your life and buckets of money in. And it's entirely possible that you can get away with it, too.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[OverarchingVillain Red John]]--[[spoiler:Sheriff Thomas [=McAllister=]]]--is Patrick Jane's [[ArchEnemy nemesis]] and a sociopathic SerialKiller responsible for torturing and killing dozens of women. When Jane, then a phony psychic, insulted Red John while offering to help the police catch him, Red John murdered Jane's wife and young daughter. Years later, Red John, although retired, commits a number of murders to silence loose ends or torment Jane. Some of his worst crimes include kidnapping and brainwashing Kristina Frye into believing that she's dead; trying to force Jane to kill his best friend and LoveInterest, Teresa Lisbon; killing a woman because Jane had a happy memory of her; and beheading the therapist who helped Jane recover after his family's death. The mastermind of [[spoiler:the Blake Association, a criminal conspiracy and protection racket for corrupt law enforcement officials]], and leader of his own group of psychotics and serial killers, Red John regularly kills his minions or drives them to suicide when he has no further need of them. A raging narcissist driven by an [[FameThroughInfamy intense need for attention]], Red John revels in the power he feels by holding thousands of lives in his hands.

to:

** [[OverarchingVillain Red John]]--[[spoiler:Sheriff John]]--[[spoiler:[[DirtyCop Sheriff Thomas [=McAllister=]]]--is McAllister]]]]--is Patrick Jane's [[ArchEnemy nemesis]] and a sociopathic SerialKiller responsible for torturing and killing dozens of women. When Jane, then a phony psychic, insulted Red John while offering to help the police catch him, Red John murdered Jane's wife and young daughter. Years later, Red John, although retired, commits a number of murders to silence loose ends or torment Jane. Some of his worst crimes include kidnapping and brainwashing Kristina Frye into believing that she's dead; trying to force Jane to kill his best friend and LoveInterest, Teresa Lisbon; killing a woman because Jane had a happy memory of her; and beheading the therapist who helped Jane recover after his family's death. The mastermind of [[spoiler:the Blake Association, a criminal conspiracy and protection racket for corrupt law enforcement officials]], and leader of his own group of psychotics and serial killers, Red John regularly kills his minions or drives them to suicide when he has no further need of them. A raging narcissist driven by an [[FameThroughInfamy intense need for attention]], Red John revels in the power he feels by holding thousands of lives in his hands.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Leslie Sloop from "Throwing Fire" is an alcoholic serial adulteress. She's also outlived her son (who choked to death on a balloon at the age of three), watched her husband cope with it better than she does, and then finds him murdered. By the time she appears in person, she is on the verge of suicide and is barely talked out of it by Van Pelt and Rigsby.
** Dreyer Whelan from "Red Badge" is an utter dick towards Lisbon thoroughotu his brief interview scene but the reasons for this make him more sympathetic. His six year-old daughter was raped by a man who he (somewhat justifiably) felt the police should have already arrested and stopped. Whelan is stated to be either divorced or widowed, and years later is still seeing a therapist about the trauma (and apparently recovering less well than his daughter, the actual victim).
** Paul Kraeger in "Bloodshot" was an adulterer, but he was one who lost the child he deeply loved when his wife left him (due to Jane exposing the affair in a psychic act), suffered a breakdown and has spent the next decade homeless. The fact that [[spoiler:his vengeful son is the culprit of the episode, and ends up dead as a result]] adds to his status.
** Rachel Bowman from "Ball of Fire" is an AxCrazy murderer and kidnapper who wants to cause Jane as much physical and mental pain as possible before killing him. She also had her mother die giving birth to her, was raised by a father who was extremely close to her, and in the backstory, was callously manipulated by Jane to trick her father into confessing to murder, with him later dying in prison. The fact that she's explicitly shown to be suffering from some kind of mental disorder (mentioning taking her meds) also makes her seem a bit less cold-blooded.
** Bob Kirkland has a somewhat unpleasant manner and is capable of great ruthlessness and ColdBloodedTorture, but he grew up in a very abusive, home with only his brother (who later disappeared and was probably murdered by [[spoiler:Red John]]) to care about and has dedicated a large part of his life to a goal which he ultimately fails to achieve, or even come close to, something he is made aware of, and which [[spoiler:gets him killed]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** ''Creator/BradleyWhitford'' as [[spoiler: The fake Red John]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Some fans who ''don't'' think Red John is psychic wonder if [[spoiler: Lorelai]] was really dead in order to explain how she appeared on a Dvd, where Red John named Jane's seven final suspects, supposedly before Jane even started making his list.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** After [[spoiler: Stiles and Haffner]] were apparently [[spoiler: blown up when sp McAlister [[FakingTheDead faked his own death]]]] , but the fact that one death was faked in that incident doesn't necessarily mean that the others weren't, as while if Stiles and/or Haffner survived then they might have had reasons off their own to run -as members of Visualize, and with Red John running around- or been sen as potentially valuable prisoners for the Blake Association, with both organizations potentially having had the recourses to plant more bodies and DNA]].

to:

** After [[spoiler: Stiles and Haffner]] were apparently [[spoiler: blown up when sp McAlister [[FakingTheDead faked his own death]]]] death]] , but the fact that one death was faked in that incident doesn't necessarily mean that the others weren't, as while if Stiles and/or Haffner survived then they might have had reasons off their own to run -as members of Visualize, and with Red John running around- or been sen as potentially valuable prisoners for the Blake Association, with both organizations potentially having had the recourses to plant more bodies and DNA]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* HesJustHiding: In a show with a fair amount of FakingTheDead, this is inevitable even for cases where the deaths do seem to stick.
** [[spoiler: LaRoche]] is last seen bleeding out form a gunshot, as Rigsby tries to save him but seems to get more upset. The next episode mentions him as dead, but the main characters [[AngstWhatAngst limited reaction to this]] and the fact that they might have seen an advantage in letting his attacker think he'd died do cast a little doubt on it.
** After [[spoiler: Stiles and Haffner]] were apparently [[spoiler: blown up when sp McAlister [[FakingTheDead faked his own death]]]] , but the fact that one death was faked in that incident doesn't necessarily mean that the others weren't, as while if Stiles and/or Haffner survived then they might have had reasons off their own to run -as members of Visualize, and with Red John running around- or been sen as potentially valuable prisoners for the Blake Association, with both organizations potentially having had the recourses to plant more bodies and DNA]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Red John/[[spoiler: Sherriff [=McCallister=]]]. Just what are his backstory and motivations? What led him to become a serial killer? Why is it that he seems to have absolutely no remorse for actions, but instead views them as NecessarilyEvil despite most of them being petty murders of unimportant people? It's revealed throughout the course of the show that he does not view himself as weak, unhappy, evil or in need of redemption, and that he does not feel himself deserving of punishment for his deeds, so what does that make him? Is he some sort of WellIntentionedExtremist with a goal we don't know about? Does he suffer from BlueAndOrangeMorality, BlackAndWhiteInsanity, or a little bit of both? Or is he just plain bonkers with delusions of grandeur? And did he start killing people before or after he [[spoiler: became a sheriff]]?

to:

** Red John/[[spoiler: Sherriff [=McCallister=]]]. Just what are his backstory and motivations? What led him to become a serial killer? Why is it that he seems to have absolutely no remorse for his actions, but instead views them as NecessarilyEvil despite most of them being petty murders of unimportant people? It's revealed throughout the course of the show that he does not view himself as weak, unhappy, evil or in need of redemption, and that he does not feel himself deserving of punishment for his deeds, so what does that make him? Is he some sort of KnightTemplar or WellIntentionedExtremist with a goal we don't know about? Does he suffer from BlueAndOrangeMorality, BlackAndWhiteInsanity, or a little bit of both? Or is he just plain bonkers with delusions of grandeur? And did he start killing people before or after he [[spoiler: became a sheriff]]?

Changed: 2142

Removed: 2605

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Moving.


** Red John/[[spoiler: Sherriff [=McCallister=]]]. Just what are his backstory and motivations? What led him to become a serial killer? Why is it that he seems to have absolutely no remorse for actions, but instead views them as NecessarilyEvil? It's revealed throughout the course of the show that he does not view himself as weak, unhappy, evil or in need of redemption, and that he does not feel himself deserving of punishment for his deeds, so what does that make him? Is he some sort of KnightTemplar or WellIntentionedExtremist? Does he suffer from BlueAndOrangeMorality, BlackAndWhiteInsanity, or a little bit of both? Or is he just plain bonkers with delusions of grandeur? And did he start killing people before or after he [[spoiler: became a sheriff]]?

to:

** Red John/[[spoiler: Sherriff [=McCallister=]]]. Just what are his backstory and motivations? What led him to become a serial killer? Why is it that he seems to have absolutely no remorse for actions, but instead views them as NecessarilyEvil? NecessarilyEvil despite most of them being petty murders of unimportant people? It's revealed throughout the course of the show that he does not view himself as weak, unhappy, evil or in need of redemption, and that he does not feel himself deserving of punishment for his deeds, so what does that make him? Is he some sort of KnightTemplar or WellIntentionedExtremist? WellIntentionedExtremist with a goal we don't know about? Does he suffer from BlueAndOrangeMorality, BlackAndWhiteInsanity, or a little bit of both? Or is he just plain bonkers with delusions of grandeur? And did he start killing people before or after he [[spoiler: became a sheriff]]?



** For many, TheReveal that Red John was [[spoiler: Sherriff [=McCallister=]]] falls into this. Mostly because so little evidence over the course of the series pointed to him- except for evidence in season 6, the season he was revealed-, and because it doesn't easily jive with what we ''did'' know about Red John. Not to mention, any motive or backstory Red John had was dismissed by Jane as irrelevant, so we learn little about him beyond the fact that this man was Red John, and many of his impressive- nigh impossible- feats are given no explanation.

to:

** For many, TheReveal that Red John was [[spoiler: Sherriff [=McCallister=]]] falls into this. Mostly because so little evidence over the course of the series pointed to him- except him (except for evidence in season 6, the season he was revealed-, revealed, which should mark it as Ass Pull), and because it doesn't easily jive with what we ''did'' know about Red John. John (like his height and hair, which are pretty different to what they had been described as). Not to mention, any motive or backstory Red John had was dismissed by Jane as irrelevant, so we learn little about him beyond the fact that this man was Red John, and many John. Many of his impressive- impressive and nigh impossible- impossible psychic feats are given no explanation. explanation, and there are also logistical questions that push the trouble of his identity into FridgeLogic territory, such as how he could keep showing up and killing in Sacramento, where the team is based, especially in his last season, when he's supposed to be [[spoiler:a small-town sheriff from Santa Monica]], hundreds of miles away.



* CaliforniaDoubling:
** Although the show takes place (almost) entirely in California (occasionally having ventured into neighboring areas like Tijuana or Vegas), it is mostly filmed in Los Angeles (despite being based in Sacramento and most episodes taking place in [=NorCal=] as opposed to [=SoCal=]).
** The opening scene of "Days of Wine and Roses" really takes the cake--it's said to take place in [[WretchedHive the Tenderloin]] in UsefulNotes/SanFrancisco, but the Tenderloin is considerably more built-up and dirty than the area depicted. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenderloin,_San_Francisco There are only a small handful of parks in the area]], and none seem like a suitable place to sit and play chess.
** Now that the show's set in Austin, there is quite a bit of this.
* TheChrisCarterEffect: The Red John MythArc has become far more elaborate and convoluted than originally intended. While it appears that Bruno Heller always knew who Red John was going to be (although even that notion is contested by some) or at least picked his possible choices early on, the character went from a particularly devious SerialKiller who knew how to cover his tracks, to a SerialKiller who knew a few other killers, to a SerialKiller with a shadow army of fanatically devoted, loyal-unto-death brainwashed followers. In season 6 they took his catchphrase ("Tiger, Tiger") and decided to turn what looked like a cult into a sophisticated criminal organization that nobody had heard of, and made Red John a possible member, to a possible ''senior'' member, and finally into the apparent mastermind of the whole thing. Oh, and he's repeatedly performing "psychic" feats that make Jane look like an amateur, that are never explained. Beyond a certain point he's basically a supervillain and you have to start wondering why he ever resorted to anything as trivial as serial murder in the first place. TheReveal that he is [[spoiler: Sherriff [=McCallister=]]] only raised further issues, as many clues that were dropped about Red John turn out to be irrelevant (his height, for instance- the actor in question is taller than Red John was stated to be) while practically all of the clues that pointed to him were only dropped in the sixth season, the one he was revealed in; most clues from previous seasons were never mentioned again. There are also logistical questions that push it into FridgeLogic territory, such as how he can keep showing up and killing in Sacramento, where the team is based, especially in his last season, [[spoiler: when he's supposed to be a small-town sheriff from Santa Monica, hundreds of miles away.]]

to:

* CaliforniaDoubling:
** Although the show takes place (almost) entirely in California (occasionally having ventured into neighboring areas like Tijuana or Vegas), it is mostly filmed in Los Angeles (despite being based in Sacramento and most episodes taking place in [=NorCal=] as opposed to [=SoCal=]).
** The opening scene of "Days of Wine and Roses" really takes the cake--it's said to take place in [[WretchedHive the Tenderloin]] in UsefulNotes/SanFrancisco, but the Tenderloin is considerably more built-up and dirty than the area depicted. [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenderloin,_San_Francisco There are only a small handful of parks in the area]], and none seem like a suitable place to sit and play chess.
** Now that the show's set in Austin, there is quite a bit of this.
* TheChrisCarterEffect: The Red John MythArc has become far more elaborate and convoluted than originally intended. While it appears that Bruno Heller always supposedly knew who Red John was going to be from the start (although even that notion is contested by some) or at least picked his possible choices early on, many), the character went from a particularly devious SerialKiller who knew how to cover his tracks, to a SerialKiller who knew connected to a few other killers, to a SerialKiller with a shadow army of fanatically devoted, loyal-unto-death brainwashed followers. In season 6 they took his catchphrase ("Tiger, Tiger") and decided to turn what initially looked like a cult into a sophisticated sophisticated, national wide criminal organization that nobody had heard of, and made Red John a possible member, to then a possible ''senior'' member, and finally into the apparent mastermind of the whole thing. Oh, and he's repeatedly performing "psychic" feats that make Jane look like an amateur, amateur that are never explained. explained or referenced again. Beyond a certain point point, he's basically a supervillain comic book supervillain, and you have to start wondering why he ever resorted to anything as trivial as serial murder in the first place. TheReveal that he is [[spoiler: Sherriff [=McCallister=]]] only raised further issues, as many clues that were dropped about Red John turn through the series turned out to be irrelevant (his height, for instance- instance, as the actor in question is taller than Red John was stated to be) or never mentioned again, while practically all of the clues that pointed to him were only dropped in the sixth season, the one very season he was revealed in; most clues from previous seasons were never mentioned again. There are also logistical questions that push it into FridgeLogic territory, such as how he can keep showing up and killing in Sacramento, where the team is based, especially in his last season, [[spoiler: when he's supposed to be a small-town sheriff from Santa Monica, hundreds of miles away.]] in.



* OlderThanTheyThink[=/=]SerialNumbersFiledOff: The novel ''The Analyst'' by John Katzenbach features a mysterious murderer who signs with a bloody circular symbol, leads a little cult of helpers among which there is a seductress who is close to him, and fights a mind games war against the protagonist, who is also a professional of the mind with blond hair who got his life shattered after losing his wife. It even features a skeptical female police inspector who helps him for a time. The book was released in 2002, six years before the premiere of ''The Mentalist''.

to:

* OlderThanTheyThink[=/=]SerialNumbersFiledOff: The novel ''The Analyst'' by John Katzenbach features a mysterious murderer who signs with a bloody circular symbol, leads a little cult of helpers among which there is a seductress who is close to him, and fights a mind games war against the protagonist, who is also a professional of the mind with blond hair who got his life shattered after losing his wife. It even features a skeptical skeptical, dark-haired female police inspector who helps him for a time. The book was released in 2002, six years before the premiere of ''The Mentalist''.

Added: 128

Removed: 128

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: Rigsby's class reunion entrance to Ini Kamoze's "Here Comes the Hotstepper" in "Rose-Colored Glasses."



* CrowningMusicOfAwesome: Rigsby's class reunion entrance to Ini Kamoze's "Here Comes the Hotstepper" in "Rose-Colored Glasses."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


* TheScrappy: Red John was already a BaseBreakingCharacter ; but after he was revealed to be [[spoiler:[[AssPull Sheriff Thomas McAllister]] instead of any of the other, more-developed and more-interesting suspects]], he seemed to fall firmly into this territory.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: Or in this case, French love Simon Baker. This show does extremely well in France.

to:

* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: Or in this case, French rather Europeans love Simon Baker. This The show does extremely well in France.France and used to be huge in Spain too.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AcceptableTargets: {{Deconstructed}} with the character of Richard Haibach, who is on the receiving end of this trope as the main cast knows him only as an ex-con whose crime was child molestation, and treats him accordingly with utter contempt. They basically harass him in every one of his appearances and do everything from accusing him of child murder to using him as ''bait'' for dangerous killers culminating with him being kidnapped and tortured as part of a (failed) plan by Jane to catch Red John. The result is that he snaps and goes on a RoaringRampageOfRevenge against the whole team, whereupon his backstory as a victim of abuse of his own is expounded upon, resulting in a very unusual example of a ''pedophile'' getting a sympathetic treatment...albeit, perhaps from the audience more than the cast, who still hate his guts by the end of it, especially after he targeted them and killed some of their friends.

Changed: 16

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* TheChrisCarterEffect: The Red John MythArc has become far more elaborate and convoluted than originally intended. While it appears that Bruno Heller always knew who Red John was going to be (although even that notion is contested by some) or at least picked his possible choices early on, the character went from a particularly devious SerialKiller who knew how to cover his tracks, to a SerialKiller who knew a few other killers, to a SerialKiller with a shadow army of fanatically devoted, loyal-unto-death brainwashed followers. In season 6 they took his catchphrase ("Tiger, Tiger") and decided to turn what looked like a cult into a sophisticated criminal organization that nobody had heard of, and made Red John a possible member, to a possible ''senior'' member, and finally into the apparent mastermind of the whole thing. Oh, and he's repeatedly performing "psychic" feats that make Jane look like an amateur, that are never explained. Beyond a certain point he's basically a supervillain and you have to start wondering why he ever resorted to anything as trivial as serial murder in the first place. TheReveal that he is [[spoiler: Sherriff [=McCallister=]]] only raised further issues, as many clues that were dropped about Red John turn out to be irrelevant (his height, for instance- the actor in question is taller than Red John was stated to be) while practically all of the clues that pointed to him were only dropped in the sixth season, the one he was revealed in; most clues from previous seasons were never mentioned again. There are also logistical questions that push it into FridgeLogic territory, such as how he can keep showing up and killing in Sacremento, where the team is based, especially in his last season, [[spoiler: when he's supposed to be a small-town sheriff from Santa Monica, hundreds of miles away.]]
* CompleteMonster: Of the many criminals Patrick Jane is tasked with going up against, these are the worst:

to:

* TheChrisCarterEffect: The Red John MythArc has become far more elaborate and convoluted than originally intended. While it appears that Bruno Heller always knew who Red John was going to be (although even that notion is contested by some) or at least picked his possible choices early on, the character went from a particularly devious SerialKiller who knew how to cover his tracks, to a SerialKiller who knew a few other killers, to a SerialKiller with a shadow army of fanatically devoted, loyal-unto-death brainwashed followers. In season 6 they took his catchphrase ("Tiger, Tiger") and decided to turn what looked like a cult into a sophisticated criminal organization that nobody had heard of, and made Red John a possible member, to a possible ''senior'' member, and finally into the apparent mastermind of the whole thing. Oh, and he's repeatedly performing "psychic" feats that make Jane look like an amateur, that are never explained. Beyond a certain point he's basically a supervillain and you have to start wondering why he ever resorted to anything as trivial as serial murder in the first place. TheReveal that he is [[spoiler: Sherriff [=McCallister=]]] only raised further issues, as many clues that were dropped about Red John turn out to be irrelevant (his height, for instance- the actor in question is taller than Red John was stated to be) while practically all of the clues that pointed to him were only dropped in the sixth season, the one he was revealed in; most clues from previous seasons were never mentioned again. There are also logistical questions that push it into FridgeLogic territory, such as how he can keep showing up and killing in Sacremento, Sacramento, where the team is based, especially in his last season, [[spoiler: when he's supposed to be a small-town sheriff from Santa Monica, hundreds of miles away.]]
* CompleteMonster: Of the many criminals [[GuileHero Patrick Jane Jane]] is tasked with going up against, these are the worst:

Top