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Sorry. My mistake

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* ValuesDissonance: Let's just say that the chapter dealing with the mentally handicapped children moving into the rebuilt Temple of the Human Spirit can be ''very'' uncomfortable to read for modern audiences.
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unaprooved entry, first EP the candidate in "Magnificient Bastard cleanup thread" then, when he gets aprooved add him here.


* MagnificentBastard: Toohey might be considered this, or maybe just a [[{{Jerkass}} dick]].
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unaprooved entry, first EP the candidate in "Magnificient Bastard cleanup thread" then, when he gets aprooved add him here.


* ValuesDissonance: Let's just say that the chapter dealing with the mentally handicapped children moving into the rebuilt Temple of the Human Spirit can be ''very'' uncomfortable to read for modern audiences.
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Not YMMV


* BrokenAesop: Roark's courtroom speech, littered as it is with lines such as "A man thinks and works alone" and affirmations that collective action is worthless and exploitative, is particularly rich coming from an ''architect''.
-->'''Roark''': An architect uses steel, glass, concrete, produced by others. But the materials remain just so much steel, glass and concrete until he touches them. What he does with them is his individual product and his individual property. This is the only pattern for proper co-operation among men.
** The architect doesn't touch them. The builders do.
*** Shame, too - the same point could be delivered by saying something like, "Paper and ink are produced by others but an architect's artwork is his or her own."
** It's also amusing that a book which dismisses a number of people, including a social worker, as "leeches" and "parasites" features a hero who, in the opening chapter, cheerfully admits that he intends to use his clients solely as tools to let him construct buildings - which is at least as parasitic as half the examples, sometimes more so.

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no emoticons


* TheWoobie: Ironically, [[spoiler:Peter Keating]] becomes one later in the book, the poor bastard... In fact, [[spoiler:his turn-wife Dominique picks up on this fact and pretty much does give him that hug he so badly needs... but he needs it even more as the book progresses even further. D:]]

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* TheWoobie: TheWoobie:
**
Ironically, [[spoiler:Peter Keating]] becomes one later in the book, the poor bastard... In fact, [[spoiler:his turn-wife Dominique picks up on this fact and pretty much does give him that hug he so badly needs... but he needs it even more as the book progresses even further. D:]]]]

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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: There is a considerable amount of debate on whether Dominique was actually raped by Roark, or whether she was acting out a fantasy, with his compliance, and was the one truly in control at the time. In BDSM circles, this is commonly referred to as "topping from below"; where the "submissive" is actually in control, "writing the script" as it were, and the "dominant" is simply following along, playing a role created and maintained by the sub. In fact, consensual "rape fantasies" are more often initiated by the person playing the "victim" role, than the the one playing the "rapist". This interpretation would seem to be borne out by the very similar, but more obvious, example set by Dagny Taggart's more clearly dominant role in ''Literature/AtlasShrugged''.

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
**
There is a considerable amount of debate on whether Dominique was actually raped by Roark, or whether she was acting out a fantasy, with his compliance, and was the one truly in control at the time. In BDSM circles, this is commonly referred to as "topping from below"; where the "submissive" is actually in control, "writing the script" as it were, and the "dominant" is simply following along, playing a role created and maintained by the sub. In fact, consensual "rape fantasies" are more often initiated by the person playing the "victim" role, than the the one playing the "rapist". This interpretation would seem to be borne out by the very similar, but more obvious, example set by Dagny Taggart's more clearly dominant role in ''Literature/AtlasShrugged''.



** Whether or not Roark was a [[TheSociopath sociopath]] is fuel for countless flamewars. Much like Creator/AynRand herself, in fact.

to:

** Whether or not Roark was a [[TheSociopath sociopath]] is fuel for countless flamewars.{{flamewar}}s. Much like Creator/AynRand herself, in fact.



** There is a very good reading of it [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppgg_vF3Z-0 here]]. One of the best {{HannibalLecture}}s you'll ever hear.

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** There is a very good reading of it [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppgg_vF3Z-0 here]]. One of the best {{HannibalLecture}}s {{Hannibal Lecture}}s you'll ever hear.
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None


** In the wake of events such as the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11, Roark could convincingly be branded a domestic terrorist.

to:

** In the wake of events such as the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11, Roark could convincingly be branded a domestic terrorist.terrorist (even back then, blowing up a building was ''very much'' treated harshly. [[OlderThanTheyThink Terrorists had already done so]] by that point).
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* {{Anvilicious}}: Whilst this book is nowhere near as anvilicious as ''Atlas Shrugged'', the book is not subtle about its message, except possibly for a reader that has almost no familiarity with the ideas and debates Rand is dealing with. Remember that TropesAreNotBad, however, and it is quite arguable that at the time TheFountainhead was published, [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped it was dropping anvils that needed to be dropped]].

to:

* {{Anvilicious}}: Whilst this book is nowhere near as anvilicious as ''Atlas Shrugged'', the book is not subtle about its message, except possibly for a reader that has almost no familiarity with the ideas and debates Rand is dealing with. Remember that TropesAreNotBad, [[TropesAreTools Tropes Are Not Bad]], however, and it is quite arguable that at the time TheFountainhead ''The Fountainhead'' was published, [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped it was dropping anvils that needed to be dropped]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: There is a considerable amount of debate on whether Dominique was actually raped by Roark, or whether she was acting out a fantasy, with his compliance, and was the one truly in control at the time. In BDSM circles, this is commonly referred to as "topping from below"; where the "submissive" is actually in control, "writing the script" as it were, and the "dominant" is simply following along, playing a role created and maintained by the sub. In fact, consensual "rape fantasies" are more often initiated by the person playing the "victim" role, than the the one playing the "rapist". This interpretation would seem to be borne out by the very similar, but more obvious, example set by Dagny Taggart's more clearly dominant role in ''AtlasShrugged''.

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: There is a considerable amount of debate on whether Dominique was actually raped by Roark, or whether she was acting out a fantasy, with his compliance, and was the one truly in control at the time. In BDSM circles, this is commonly referred to as "topping from below"; where the "submissive" is actually in control, "writing the script" as it were, and the "dominant" is simply following along, playing a role created and maintained by the sub. In fact, consensual "rape fantasies" are more often initiated by the person playing the "victim" role, than the the one playing the "rapist". This interpretation would seem to be borne out by the very similar, but more obvious, example set by Dagny Taggart's more clearly dominant role in ''AtlasShrugged''.''Literature/AtlasShrugged''.



* {{Anvilicious}}: Whilst this book is nowhere near as anvilicious as AtlasShrugged, the book is not subtle about its message, except possibly for a reader that has almost no familiarity with the ideas and debates Rand is dealing with. Remember that TropesAreNotBad, however, and it is quite arguable that at the time TheFountainhead was published, [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped it was dropping anvils that needed to be dropped]].

to:

* {{Anvilicious}}: Whilst this book is nowhere near as anvilicious as AtlasShrugged, ''Atlas Shrugged'', the book is not subtle about its message, except possibly for a reader that has almost no familiarity with the ideas and debates Rand is dealing with. Remember that TropesAreNotBad, however, and it is quite arguable that at the time TheFountainhead was published, [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped it was dropping anvils that needed to be dropped]].

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** Peter Keating can be cariously seen as a ClassicAntiHero, a deconstruction of the ClassicAntiHero or a Type II AntiVillain, especially at the end.

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** Peter Keating can be cariously variously seen as a ClassicAntiHero, a deconstruction of the ClassicAntiHero or a Type II AntiVillain, especially at the end.


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** It's also amusing that a book which dismisses a number of people, including a social worker, as "leeches" and "parasites" features a hero who, in the opening chapter, cheerfully admits that he intends to use his clients solely as tools to let him construct buildings - which is at least as parasitic as half the examples, sometimes more so.
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None

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*** Shame, too - the same point could be delivered by saying something like, "Paper and ink are produced by others but an architect's artwork is his or her own."
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Never mind. Main page is locked.

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* BrokenAesop: Roark's courtroom speech, littered as it is with lines such as "A man thinks and works alone" and affirmations that collective action is worthless and exploitative, is particularly rich coming from an ''architect''.
-->'''Roark''': An architect uses steel, glass, concrete, produced by others. But the materials remain just so much steel, glass and concrete until he touches them. What he does with them is his individual product and his individual property. This is the only pattern for proper co-operation among men.
** The architect doesn't touch them. The builders do.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
This isn\'t YMMV. Moving.


* BrokenAesop: Roark's courtroom speech, littered as it is with lines such as "A man thinks and works alone" and affirmations that collective action is worthless and exploitative, is particularly rich coming from an ''architect''.
-->'''Roark''': An architect uses steel, glass, concrete, produced by others. But the materials remain just so much steel, glass and concrete until he touches them. What he does with them is his individual product and his individual property. This is the only pattern for proper co-operation among men.
** The architect doesn't touch them. The builders do.
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None

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** Toohey on the other hand is definitely a sociopath.
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None


* MagnificentBastard: Toohey might be considered this, or maybe just a [[CompleteMonster total]] [[{{Jerkass}} dick]].

to:

* MagnificentBastard: Toohey might be considered this, or maybe just a [[CompleteMonster total]] [[{{Jerkass}} dick]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ValuesDissonance: Let's just say that the chapter dealing with the mentally handicapped children moving into the rebuilt Temple of the Human Spirit can be ''very'' uncomfortable to read for modern audiences.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Ellsworth Toohey is definitely a sociopath.

to:

*** Ellsworth Toohey is definitely ** Peter Keating can be cariously seen as a sociopath.ClassicAntiHero, a deconstruction of the ClassicAntiHero or a Type II AntiVillain, especially at the end.

Added: 47

Changed: 1

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: There is a considerable amount of debate on whether Dominique was actually raped by Roark, or whether she was acting out a fantasy, with his complicance, and was the one truly in control at the time. In BDSM circles, this is commonly referred to as "topping from below"; where the "submissive" is actually in control, "writing the script" as it were, and the "dominant" is simply following along, playing a role created and maintained by the sub. In fact, consensual "rape fantasies" are more often initiated by the person playing the "victim" role, than the the one playing the "rapist". This interpretation would seem to be borne out by the very similar, but more obvious, example set by Dagny Taggart's more clearly dominant role in ''AtlasShrugged''.

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: There is a considerable amount of debate on whether Dominique was actually raped by Roark, or whether she was acting out a fantasy, with his complicance, compliance, and was the one truly in control at the time. In BDSM circles, this is commonly referred to as "topping from below"; where the "submissive" is actually in control, "writing the script" as it were, and the "dominant" is simply following along, playing a role created and maintained by the sub. In fact, consensual "rape fantasies" are more often initiated by the person playing the "victim" role, than the the one playing the "rapist". This interpretation would seem to be borne out by the very similar, but more obvious, example set by Dagny Taggart's more clearly dominant role in ''AtlasShrugged''.


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*** Ellsworth Toohey is definitely a sociopath.

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Updated to meet new Nightmare Fuel criteria.


* HighOctaneNightmareFuel: Toohey's little monologue about his true aspirations. I dare you to read that and not feel a chill.
** There is a very good reading of it [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppgg_vF3Z-0 here]]. One of the best {{HannibalLecture}}s you'll ever hear.


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* NightmareFuel:
** Toohey's little monologue about his true aspirations. I dare you to read that and not feel a chill.
** There is a very good reading of it [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppgg_vF3Z-0 here]]. One of the best {{HannibalLecture}}s you'll ever hear.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Whether or not Roark was a [[TheSociopath sociopath]] is fuel for countless flamewars. Much like Creator/AynRand herself, in fact.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Added trope

Added DiffLines:

* BrokenAesop: Roark's courtroom speech, littered as it is with lines such as "A man thinks and works alone" and affirmations that collective action is worthless and exploitative, is particularly rich coming from an ''architect''.
-->'''Roark''': An architect uses steel, glass, concrete, produced by others. But the materials remain just so much steel, glass and concrete until he touches them. What he does with them is his individual product and his individual property. This is the only pattern for proper co-operation among men.
** The architect doesn't touch them. The builders do.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Spelling.


* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: There is a considerable amount of debate on whether Dominique was actually raped by Roark, or whether she was acting out a fantasy, with his complicance, and was the one truly in control at the time. In BDSM circles, this is commonly referred to as "topping from below"; where the "submissive" is actually in control, "writing the script" as it were, and the "dominant" is simply following along, playing a roll created and maintained by the sub. In fact, consentual "rape fantasies" are more often initiated by the person playing the "victim" role, than the the one playing the "rapist". This interpretation would seem to be bourne out by the very similar, but more obvious, example set by Dagny Taggart's more clearly dominant role in ''AtlasShrugged''.

to:

* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: There is a considerable amount of debate on whether Dominique was actually raped by Roark, or whether she was acting out a fantasy, with his complicance, and was the one truly in control at the time. In BDSM circles, this is commonly referred to as "topping from below"; where the "submissive" is actually in control, "writing the script" as it were, and the "dominant" is simply following along, playing a roll role created and maintained by the sub. In fact, consentual consensual "rape fantasies" are more often initiated by the person playing the "victim" role, than the the one playing the "rapist". This interpretation would seem to be bourne borne out by the very similar, but more obvious, example set by Dagny Taggart's more clearly dominant role in ''AtlasShrugged''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* TheWoobie: Ironically, [[spoiler:Peter Keating]] becomes one later in the book, the poor bastard... In fact, [[spoiler:his turn-wife Dominique picks up on this fact and pretty much does give him that hug he so badly needs... but he needs it even more as the book progresses even further. D:]]

to:

* TheWoobie: Ironically, [[spoiler:Peter Keating]] becomes one later in the book, the poor bastard... In fact, [[spoiler:his turn-wife Dominique picks up on this fact and pretty much does give him that hug he so badly needs... but he needs it even more as the book progresses even further. D:]]D:]]
** Poor, poor Catherine...
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None


** There is a very good reading of it [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppgg_vF3Z-0 here]]. One of the best {{HannibalLecture}}s you'll ever hear.



* TheWoobie: Ironically, [[spoiler:Peter Keating]] becomes one later in the book, the poor bastard... In fact, [[spoiler:his turn-wife Dominique picks up on this fact and pretty much does give him that hug he so badly needs... but he needs it even more as the book progresses even further. D:]]

to:

* TheWoobie: Ironically, [[spoiler:Peter Keating]] becomes one later in the book, the poor bastard... In fact, [[spoiler:his turn-wife Dominique picks up on this fact and pretty much does give him that hug he so badly needs... but he needs it even more as the book progresses even further. D:]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** In the wake of events such as the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11, Roark could convincingly be branded a domestic terrorist.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: There is a considerable amount of debate on whether Dominique was actually raped by Roark, or whether she was acting out a fantasy, with his complicance, and was the one truly in control at the time. In BDSM circles, this is commonly referred to as "topping from below"; where the "submissive" is actually in control, "writing the script" as it were, and the "dominant" is simply following along, playing a roll created and maintained by the sub. In fact, consentual "rape fantasies" are more often initiated by the person playing the "victim" role, than the the one playing the "rapist". This interpretation would seem to be bourne out by the very similar, but more obvious, example set by Dagny Taggart's more clearly dominant role in ''AtlasShrugged''.


* ChaoticGood: Roark. ChaoticNeutral is another interpretation, particularly because Rand's ideal Objectivist hero is necessarily selfish and not particularly interested in preserving the life and well-being of others.



* LawfulEvil: Ellsworth Toohey.
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* ChaoticGood: Roark. [[Chaotic Neutral]] is another interpretation, particularly because Rand's ideal Objectivist hero is necessarily selfish and not particularly interested in preserving the life and well-being of others.

to:

* ChaoticGood: Roark. [[Chaotic Neutral]] ChaoticNeutral is another interpretation, particularly because Rand's ideal Objectivist hero is necessarily selfish and not particularly interested in preserving the life and well-being of others.
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None


* ChaoticGood: Roark. Chaotic Neutral is another interpretation, particularly because Rand's ideal Objectivist hero is necessarily selfish and not particularly interested in preserving the life and well-being of others.

to:

* ChaoticGood: Roark. Chaotic Neutral [[Chaotic Neutral]] is another interpretation, particularly because Rand's ideal Objectivist hero is necessarily selfish and not particularly interested in preserving the life and well-being of others.
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None


* ChaoticGood: Roark.

to:

* ChaoticGood: Roark. Chaotic Neutral is another interpretation, particularly because Rand's ideal Objectivist hero is necessarily selfish and not particularly interested in preserving the life and well-being of others.

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