History YMMV / SAW

19th Sep '16 1:59:17 PM Da1tonTheGreat
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* SuspiciouslySimilarSong: "Hello Zepp" is ''extremely'' reminiscent of "Live and Let Die" by [[Music/PaulMccartney Paul McCartney]].
29th Jul '16 7:57:59 PM Anddrix
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* BaseBreaker: Hoffman, Hoffman, Hoffman. There really is no solid middle ground with this guy. Fans either find him to be devious and formidable as hell or a lousy, crooked detective that doesn't hold a candle to [[spoiler:Jigsaw]].

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* BaseBreaker: BaseBreakingCharacter: Hoffman, Hoffman, Hoffman. There really is no solid middle ground with this guy. Fans either find him to be devious and formidable as hell or a lousy, crooked detective that doesn't hold a candle to [[spoiler:Jigsaw]].
18th Jul '16 8:45:21 PM Angeldeb82
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* AcceptableTargets: Many of Jigsaw's victims are deplorable characters, such as thieves, druggies, racists, gangsters, killers, rapists, [[ArsonMurderandJaywalking and lawyers]]. [[SubvertedTrope In some cases, though,]] the victims have only made [[DisproportionateRetribution minor mistakes in their lives]], and others are completely innocent.
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Jigsaw a true monster, or a legitimately [[WellIntentionedExtremist sick and tragically misguided social engineer?]]

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* AcceptableTargets: Many of Jigsaw's victims are deplorable characters, such as thieves, druggies, racists, gangsters, killers, rapists, [[ArsonMurderandJaywalking and lawyers]]. [[SubvertedTrope In some cases, though,]] though]], the victims have only made [[DisproportionateRetribution minor mistakes in their lives]], and others are completely innocent.
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Is Jigsaw a true monster, or a legitimately [[WellIntentionedExtremist sick and tragically misguided social engineer?]]engineer]]?
* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: The Series' main Theme, commonly known as [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhSHXGM7kgE "Hello Zepp"]].



* CrowningMusicOfAwesome: The Series' main Theme, commonly known as [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhSHXGM7kgE "Hello Zepp"]].



* ReplacementScrappy: [[spoiler:Detective Hoffman]]

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* ReplacementScrappy: [[spoiler:Detective Hoffman]]Hoffman.]]



* TearJerker: One of the most depressing moments in the franchise is [[spoiler: Adam being left to die in the bathroom at the end of the original.]] Just listen to his increasingly panicked screams over the end credits.
** His last moments with Gordon. A wounded Lawrence is desperately trying to calm down a hysterical, crying Adam, promising to come back with help. The twist just makes this worse,[[spoiler:and seeing Lawrence forget about him to ''work with Jigsaw'' in Saw 3D is a straight up punch to the stomach.]]

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* TearJerker: One of the most depressing moments in the franchise is [[spoiler: Adam being left to die in the bathroom at the end of the original.]] original]]. Just listen to his increasingly panicked screams over the end credits.
** His last moments with Gordon. A wounded Lawrence is desperately trying to calm down a hysterical, crying Adam, promising to come back with help. The twist just makes this worse,[[spoiler:and worse, [[spoiler:and seeing Lawrence forget about him to ''work with Jigsaw'' in Saw 3D is a straight up punch to the stomach.]]



* VillainSue: Don't expect Jigsaw to [[KarmaHoudini ever get his comeuppance or fail in his plans]]. The same generally goes for his followers/"apprentices" as well, with rare exceptions.
14th Nov '15 3:22:46 PM ChaoticNovelist
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* DesignatedHero: Strahm. In ''Saw IV'', he was a {{Jerkass}} and a borderline SmugSnake who always talked to Jill with a condescending tone. And as Erickson pointed out, [[spoiler:he failed to save ''anyone'' from the third or fourth movies]]. In ''Saw V'', he TookALevelInDumbass and became one of the most boring characters in the series who seemed to rely on taking the LeeroyJenkins option in order to get things done. It's amazing that [[spoiler:he didn't die until the very end of the fifth film, let alone survived the fourth one]].



* HoYay: Believe it or not, it's actually been suggested between Lawrence and Adam.
** And ''Hoffman and Strahm''!
* IdiotPlot: Even people who've dealt with Jigsaw in the past turn into flailing idiots when the plot requires it of them.
* ItWasHisSled: At this point, it's nearly impossible to read anything about the series-- including this page-- without finding out that Jigsaw is John Kramer. (See?) The once-shocking twist is also naturally lost on anybody who watches the films out of order.

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* HoYay: HoYay:
**
Believe it or not, it's actually been suggested between Lawrence and Adam.
** And ''Hoffman and Strahm''!
* IdiotPlot: Even people who've dealt with Jigsaw in the past turn into flailing idiots when the plot requires it of them.
* ItWasHisSled: At this point, it's nearly impossible to read anything about the series-- including this page-- without finding out that Jigsaw is John Kramer. (See?) The once-shocking twist is also naturally lost on anybody who watches the films out of order.



** Gibson, good lord.

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** Gibson, good lord.Gibson.



** Quite a few people are getting behind [[spoiler: Hoffman]] because of [[spoiler: his]] actions in the 5th and 6th movies painting [[spoiler: him]] as a Badass MagnificentBastard Determinator who improvises XanatosSpeedChess on the fly whenever things start going bad for [[spoiler: him]]. Just as many if not more people [[spoiler: are happy he got his final comeuppance in the finale.]]

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** Quite a few people are getting behind [[spoiler: Hoffman]] because of [[spoiler: his]] actions in the 5th and 6th movies painting [[spoiler: him]] as a Badass MagnificentBastard Determinator who improvises XanatosSpeedChess plans on the fly whenever things start going bad for [[spoiler: him]]. Just as many if not more people [[spoiler: are happy he got his final comeuppance in the finale.]]



** Saw II avoided having a scrappy as well. The only completely unlikeable character is Xavier, who's a ''villain''.
** The trope should just be renamed 'The Brent', after the horribly annoying and [[spoiler: murderous]] character from VI. Not even [[spoiler: having recently lost his father]] can make him in any way endearing or likeable, or even understandable.

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** Saw II avoided having a scrappy as well. The only completely unlikeable character is Xavier, who's a ''villain''.
** The trope should just be renamed 'The Brent',
Brent; after the horribly annoying and [[spoiler: murderous]] character from VI. Not even [[spoiler: having recently lost his father]] can make him in any way endearing or likeable, or even understandable.



* {{Sequelitis}}: Each fan of the series has his or her own opinion of just where it went off the rails. Some say it was the second film ("''Saw'' never needed a sequel!"), others say it was the fourth ("the third movie finished the trilogy perfectly!"), and others say it was the fifth ("that movie just plain ''sucked!''"). Averted, however, with the reaction to the sixth film, which many people feel is a return to form for the series. Played straight, however, with ''Saw 3D'', which was almost universally panned by fans and critics alike.

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* {{Sequelitis}}: Each fan of the series has his or her own opinion of just where it went off the rails. Some say it was the second film ("''Saw'' never needed a sequel!"), others say it was the fourth ("the third movie finished the trilogy perfectly!"), and others say it was the fifth ("that movie just plain ''sucked!''"). Averted, however, with the reaction to the sixth film, which many people feel is a return to form for the series. Played Then played straight, however, with ''Saw 3D'', which was almost universally panned by fans and critics alike.
14th Nov '15 3:18:15 PM ChaoticNovelist
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* BrokenBase: After ''Saw III'' hit the screens, THE ENTIRE FUCKING FANBASE argued about it. Online and off. History repeated itself with the final movie, ''Saw 3D''.

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* BrokenBase: After ''Saw III'' hit the screens, THE ENTIRE FUCKING FANBASE argued about it. Online and off. History repeated itself with the final movie, ''Saw 3D''.
10th Jul '15 7:28:01 AM Morgenthaler
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** Given his capabilities, more like an anthropomorphic personification of a force of nature. A few myths come to mind as well for more specific possibilities.
** There's another dimension to him as of the sixth movie. [[spoiler:The main character was employed by the company that denied his insurance claims. In four and five, his lawyer and the man who (accidentally, but was still a horrible person) killed his unborn kid, the second movie was about the cops that were after him, and the first film featured his doctor who didn't even bother to remember his name. On top of that, many of the other victims are people he was jealous of. Not saying he didn't actually kill some truly rotten people, but the more the series goes on, the more it seems like the entire series is his petty revenge list.]]



** Subverted with [[spoiler:Hoffman at the end of ''Saw VI'', who gets right to work escaping the reverse bear trap 2.0 and manages to find a creative way of preventing it from opening fully when he can't get it off in time. The subversion is justified since he is Jigsaw's second apprentice, after all, and the more stable-minded of the two.]]
** Also, the tape players. People always play them, even though that starts the timer. While some automatically start when they wake up, the ones that have to be started manually could be bypassed, given them more time to figure out the trap, and how to beat it. (Though in Saw II the Needle Pit timer was already on when the group entered the room.)
** It seems that the law enforcement will always follow this. Jigsaw giving clues as to where he is? You can bet your ass the police will go charging in, despite the fact that he's known for TRAPS. That, and they can't seem to catch a ''terminally ill old man''. (They did in Saw 2 but as usual he managed to get away.)
*** This is actually subverted in ''Saw IV''. As soon as they recognize a potential trap they send a robot drone in ahead to scout and secure the area first. Rigg charges in as soon as the body's found, but that's because he lost his head when he realized who the person was. And then they go right back to drooling idiots in ''Saw 3D''.



** TakeThatScrappy: [[spoiler:The end of Saw 3D finally has him getting his just deserts]].



** [[spoiler: Until he dies in the 3rd film along with Amanda. Not to mention Hoffman being locked in a bathroom to die and Jill having her face destroyed with the RBT. Really, the only villain to get away is Dr. Gordon.]]
10th Jul '15 7:25:12 AM Morgenthaler
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* YMMV/SawI
* YMMV/SawII
* YMMV/SawIII
* YMMV/SawIV
* YMMV/SawV
* YMMV/SawVI
* YMMV/Saw3D
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!!Films in general:







* DracoInLeatherPants: Hoffman has quite a large fanbase who see him as undeniably awesome for escaping the Reverse Bear Trap. In fact, [[FanonDiscontinuity many choose to disregard]] WordOfGod saying that [[spoiler: he dies in the bathroom]].
** Seriously, [[http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/26600000/Hoffman-saw-26620592-421-234.gif canon]] vs. [[http://davidunwin.deviantart.com/art/Merry-Xmas-from-Hoffman-186806669 fanon]].

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* DracoInLeatherPants: Hoffman has quite a large fanbase who see him as undeniably awesome for escaping the Reverse Bear Trap. In fact, [[FanonDiscontinuity many choose to disregard]] WordOfGod saying that [[spoiler: he dies in the bathroom]].
**
bathroom]]. Seriously, [[http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/26600000/Hoffman-saw-26620592-421-234.gif canon]] vs. [[http://davidunwin.deviantart.com/art/Merry-Xmas-from-Hoffman-186806669 fanon]].



* JerkassWoobie: Bobby Dagen in ''3D'', never more so than [[spoiler:when he fails his final test. It was bad enough seeing him lose all of his friends and co-workers; seeing him lose his wife -- in one of the franchise's most disturbing death scenes -- was just icing on the Woobie portion of the cake]].
* LesYay: Well, kinda. Amanda and Lynn in ''Saw III'' had some serious tension between them in the movie. Amanda certainly looked like she enjoyed [[TooKinkyToTorture Lynn shoving her up against a fence]].



* MoralEventHorizon: Chavez throwing Amanda into the pit of needles and forcing her to solve his test for him.
** [[spoiler: Hoffman killing Jill]] is the point John implicitly [[spoiler: gives Gordon the order to take him out.]]



* {{Narm}}: The actor of Adam of the first movie really should keep his paws off an actor career in the future.
** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MtXqM1moLo2m3s "ANSWER MEEE!"]]
** In one trap of ''Saw 3D'' there's a man glued to a car seat, with three other people trapped (his girlfriend beneath the car, a man hooked by the mouth to the back of the car and a man tied to the wall in front of the car). It is scary, but you're a liar if you claim you didn't at least find it amusing that Jigsaw ranted about racism being bad on the tape as you watch these people struggle in panic. Especially when he said: "You will realize that we are all the same color on the inside." The line is just so out of place and absurd in that situation.
* NarmCharm: Billy the Puppet riding in on a tricycle after Amanda completed her test. It seemed to be the point.
* NightmareFuel: And how. See [[NightmareFuel/{{Saw}} this page]] for examples.



* SignatureScene: Amanda in the Reverse Bear Trap, struggling to get free. It added the tension to the close-to-death experience and started what the ''Saw'' franchise became so iconic for.
* SpecialEffectsFailure: In several shots it's quite obvious that the "glass" shards in the box at the end of ''Saw V'' are actually made out of rubber.
** The much maligned "pink blood" in ''3D'' is often described as this. Behind the scenes shots show that the blood actually did look pretty real, but was changed to a pinkish color in editing for unexplained reasons.



* SurprisinglyImprovedSequel: ''Saw VI''



* TooCoolToLive: David Tapp, especially if you consider that in the video game he saved almost everyone and won his game before he committed suicide.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: ''Saw 3D'' had two potential interesting plot points: what made [[spoiler:Dr. Gordon]] join Jigsaw and the Jigsaw survivor group. Both of them were ignored in favor of Bobby Dagen's storyline; the survivor's group goes nowhere and [[spoiler:Gordon]]'s role amounts to little more than a cameo and doesn't tell us anything that the fans hadn't already guessed years ago. Several concepts were scrapped as a result of the final two movies being crammed into one.
** The seventh movie also begins with a new concept: A trap appearing ''in public'', where three victims are sealed behind bulletproof glass in front of a busy street. This would've been a very intriguing subplot (how does the crowd react, the societal impact, the added difficulty of setting these traps up without being discovered etc.) Sadly, it's never followed up on, and is hardly even mentioned after the first scene.
* VillainSue / TheBadGuyWins: Don't expect Jigsaw to [[KarmaHoudini ever get his comeuppance or fail in his plans]]. The same generally goes for his followers/"apprentices" as well, with rare exceptions.

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* TooCoolToLive: David Tapp, especially if you consider that in the video game he saved almost everyone and won his game before he committed suicide.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: ''Saw 3D'' had two potential interesting plot points: what made [[spoiler:Dr. Gordon]] join Jigsaw and the Jigsaw survivor group. Both of them were ignored in favor of Bobby Dagen's storyline; the survivor's group goes nowhere and [[spoiler:Gordon]]'s role amounts to little more than a cameo and doesn't tell us anything that the fans hadn't already guessed years ago. Several concepts were scrapped as a result of the final two movies being crammed into one.
** The seventh movie also begins with a new concept: A trap appearing ''in public'', where three victims are sealed behind bulletproof glass in front of a busy street. This would've been a very intriguing subplot (how does the crowd react, the societal impact, the added difficulty of setting these traps up without being discovered etc.) Sadly, it's never followed up on, and is hardly even mentioned after the first scene.
* VillainSue / TheBadGuyWins:
VillainSue: Don't expect Jigsaw to [[KarmaHoudini ever get his comeuppance or fail in his plans]]. The same generally goes for his followers/"apprentices" as well, with rare exceptions.



* TheWoobie: It's hard not to feel sorry for Jill as [[spoiler:she struggles and fails to escape the Reverse Bear Trap at the end of ''3D'', with her happier times with John flashing before her eyes]].
** Joyce,[[spoiler: who gets burned alive in an inescapable trap,]] simply for being married to Bobby.
* WhatAnIdiot: The girl in the opening trap of ''Saw 3D''. Had she not tried to convince her lovers to kill the other ''within each other's earshots'' which made her reveal her true intentions, she might have had a chance of survival. Instead they subvert MurderTheHypotenuse and [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome makes a pact to murder her together.]]
10th Jul '15 7:12:50 AM Morgenthaler
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* {{Anvilicious}}: The sixth film. Released right in the middle of a bad recession and a heated debate on health care, the writers give us an opening trap featuring two bankers who gave loans to people they knew couldn't pay, and the main game's victim, William, is an executive at a health insurance company who gets to make some fantastically gory life-or-death decisions for his co-workers before [[spoiler:getting killed by the widow and son of a man he denied coverage.]] One scene is an outright AuthorFilibuster in which Jigsaw, in a flashback in William's office, states that it's hypocritical to attack the government for trying to take life-and-death decisions away from doctors and their patients, when the health insurance industry does this regularly by denying coverage.
** The message of the seventh film is dead simple: Don't lie. [[spoiler:[[SpaceWhaleAesop Or you'll have your loved one roasted alive before your eyes.]]]]
* AssPull: [[spoiler:Hoffman being Jigsaw's second/first (depends on how you look at it) apprentice in ''Saw IV'']].
** [[spoiler:Dr. Gordon being the ''third'' apprentice was an AssPull the size of a small moon]].
** This may have been foreshadowed relatively early, if a certain [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7YSEH6rS3Y youtube video is to be believed.]] Note that it's dated 2009, before TheReveal.
* BadassDecay: Jill Tuck in ''Saw 3D''. In ''Saw VI'', she TookALevelInBadass and [[spoiler: placed an upgraded Reverse Bear Trap on Hoffman, and then leaves him to die without any sign of remorse.]] After her plan fails, her badassness immediately goes away and she willingly puts herself under Witness Protection and spends most of the movie sitting at a safe house or in a jail cell. But the worst part was at the end where [[spoiler: she starts ''screaming and wailing for help at the top of her lungs'' when Hoffman finds her in her cell]].

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* {{Anvilicious}}: The sixth film. Released right in the middle of a bad recession and a heated debate on health care, the writers give us an opening trap featuring two bankers who gave loans to people they knew couldn't pay, and the main game's victim, William, is an executive at a health insurance company who gets to make some fantastically gory life-or-death decisions for his co-workers before [[spoiler:getting killed by the widow and son of a man he denied coverage.]] One scene is an outright AuthorFilibuster in which Jigsaw, in a flashback in William's office, states that it's hypocritical to attack the government for trying to take life-and-death decisions away from doctors and their patients, when the health insurance industry does this regularly by denying coverage.
** The message of the seventh film is dead simple: Don't lie. [[spoiler:[[SpaceWhaleAesop Or you'll have your loved one roasted alive before your eyes.]]]]
* AssPull: [[spoiler:Hoffman being Jigsaw's second/first (depends on how you look at it) apprentice in ''Saw IV'']].
** [[spoiler:Dr. Gordon being the ''third'' apprentice was an AssPull the size of a small moon]].
** This may have been foreshadowed relatively early, if a certain [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7YSEH6rS3Y youtube video is to be believed.]] Note that it's dated 2009, before TheReveal.
* BadassDecay: Jill Tuck in ''Saw 3D''. In ''Saw VI'', she TookALevelInBadass and [[spoiler: placed an upgraded Reverse Bear Trap on Hoffman, and then leaves him to die without any sign of remorse.]] After her plan fails, her badassness immediately goes away and she willingly puts herself under Witness Protection and spends most of the movie sitting at a safe house or in a jail cell. But the worst part was at the end where [[spoiler: she starts ''screaming and wailing for help at the top of her lungs'' when Hoffman finds her in her cell]].




* ContestedSequel: ''Saw 3D'' gained a lot of hatred from the fanbase for the widespread 3D gimmicks and sacrificing of the plot for more {{Gorn}}. Some see ''3D'' as falling straight into the TorturePorn nadir that the series used to mostly avert. The well-documented ExecutiveMeddling didn't help things either.
** The same could be said for ''Saw 3'' - many claimed it focused more on making the audience vomit than the actual plot.
* CrackPairing: A lot, most notably Hoffman/Amanda. They hate each other's guts but that doesn't keep the fans from shipping them.


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* FoeYayShipping: A lot, most notably Hoffman/Amanda. They hate each other's guts but that doesn't keep the fans from shipping them.
10th Jul '15 7:06:01 AM Morgenthaler
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* CrowningMomentofAwesome: Simone, the survivor of the flesh scale trap from the beginning of Saw VI, attends a Jigsaw Survivor meeting in the following movie. While the other survivors talk on about how grateful they are for having gone through their tests and what a great method Jigsaw employs, Simone rightly points out what monstrous sociopaths Jigsaw and his apprentices are. The best part is when one of the survivors claims that her life's improved due to Jigsaw helping her escape an abusive relationship (i.e. putting her in a contest where she was forced to kick her partner into a room full of rotating lawnmower blades) she calls her out on how ridiculous that is.
--> '''Simone:''' He had to ''die'' for you to leave him!?
10th Jul '15 7:04:39 AM Morgenthaler
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* GrowingTheBeard: ''Saw VI'' was considered a huge improvement over the previous two films by fans (and critics) alike. Unfortunately, it is one of the least successful financially because the poor quality of the previous few entries had turned people off the series.
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