Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / NineteenEightyFour

Go To

OR

Changed: 1135

Removed: 121

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Added example(s), combining related ones


** If you think Orwell was solely attacking DirtyCommunists (or, worse, liberals), you've missed the point. Totalitarian regimes can sprout from other types of governments and movements, such as fascism and religious fundamentalism. Of course, the reverse is true as well.
** There are those who believe the novel is an attack on socialism in general, ignoring the fact that Orwell himself had socialist leanings.

to:

** If you think Orwell was solely attacking DirtyCommunists (or, worse, liberals), communism, socialism, liberalism, or almost any other political ideology, you've missed the point. Totalitarian regimes can sprout from other types of governments The Party's only motivation is staying in power, and movements, such as fascism and religious fundamentalism. Of course, everything they do is in service to that; even if Ingsoc is Newspeak for "English Socialism", that's just part of the reverse is true as well.
** There are those who believe the novel is an attack on socialism in general, ignoring the fact that
Party's effort to control people through language, for Orwell himself had socialist leanings.considered Ingsoc to be everything that socialism wasn't.
** Relatedly, if you compared the setting or characters of this book to your own least favorite place or political figure, chances are that you've went exactly opposite to the book's message. ''Nineteen Eighty-Four'' is about a totalitarian government holding control by warping the English language to their own ends and writing propaganda loaded full of lies, relying on reduced intellectualism in the population to go unchallenged in their rule. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe64p-QzhNE As TED-Ed points out,]] trying to spin this book as something it's not, or repeating what someone else says about it without critically thinking about if it's true, is falling to the exact thing that ''Nineteen Eighty-Four'' warns against.



** People often compare their least favourite political figure to Big Brother, no matter what their political persuasion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Most of Europe would end up aligning with the USA due to the encroaching influence of the USSR, namely France, Spain, Italy, Greece, the Netherlands and the Nordic states (Finland, Sweden, and Norway), while Germany was split into West and East Germany that were aligned with the USA and the USSR respectively. Additionally, the dissolution of the USSR and the Balkanization of Yugoslavia also led to states that were part of the former Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, such as the Baltics (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia), the Czech Republic, Albania, and Bosnia-Herzegovina firmly aligning themselves with the USA. And on top of it all, the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014 and the subsequent war in 2022 caused Ukraine to align itself with the USA and the west after decades of being under the USSR/Russia's sphere of influence.

to:

*** Most of Europe would end up aligning with the USA due to the encroaching influence of the USSR, namely France, Spain, Italy, Greece, the Netherlands and the Nordic states (Finland, Sweden, and Norway), while Germany was split into West and East Germany that were Germany, aligned with the USA and the USSR respectively. Additionally, the dissolution of the USSR and the Balkanization of Yugoslavia also led to states that were part of the former Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, such as the Baltics (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia), the Czech Republic, Albania, and Bosnia-Herzegovina firmly aligning themselves with the USA. And on top of it all, the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014 and the subsequent war in 2022 caused Ukraine to align itself with the USA and the west after decades of being under the USSR/Russia's sphere of influence.



*** Northern Africa and the Arabian Peninsula being part of the "disputed territories" now seems incredibly quaint and outdated after the rise of Gamal Abdel Nasser turned Egypt into a regional power and lead to the rise of Pan-Arabism across Northern Africa and the Middle East, as well as the Gulf states becoming major economic powers in their own right; namely Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Qatar.

to:

*** Northern Africa and the Arabian Peninsula being part of the "disputed territories" now seems incredibly quaint and outdated after the rise of Gamal Abdel Nasser turned Egypt into a regional power and lead led to the rise of Pan-Arabism across Northern Africa and the Middle East, as well as the Gulf states becoming major economic powers in their own right; namely Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Qatar.

Added: 435

Removed: 438

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FairForItsDay: The book is one of the most referenced pieces of literature in the world, and one of the [[TropeCodifier Trope Codifiers]] of the dystopia genre. So perhaps it's not surprising that compared to a lot of its more modern contemporaries, ''1984'' not only doesn't do a lot that's different, but arguably has less to say about society beyond the concept of Newspeak and a basic, milquetoast "authoritarianism bad" message.



* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: The book is one of the most referenced pieces of literature in the world, and one of the [[TropeCodifier Trope Codifiers]] of the dystopia genre. So perhaps it's not surprising that compared to a lot of its more modern contemporaries, 1984 not only doesn't do a lot that's different, but arguably has less to say about society beyond the concept of Newspeak and a basic, milquetoast "authoritarianism is bad" message.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The geopolitical state of the world also counts, given that the book was written in post-war 1948 and was based on the dominant world powers at the time; Oceania is meant to represent a merger of the British Empire and the United States; Eurasia used to be the USSR after they annexed most of Europe and west Asia; Eastasia is Japan, China, the Koreas, and southeast Asia. However, this preceded the absolutely monumental changes in the world order that would come as a result of the UsefulNotes/ColdWar:
*** Most of Europe would end up aligning with the USA due to the encroaching influence of the USSR, namely France, Spain, Italy, Greece, the Netherlands and the Nordic states (Finland, Sweden, and Norway), while Germany was split into West and East Germany that were aligned with the USA and the USSR respectively. Additionally, the dissolution of the USSR and the Balkanization of Yugoslavia also led to states that were part of the former Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, such as the Baltics (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia), the Czech Republic, Albania, and Bosnia-Herzegovina firmly aligning themselves with the USA. And on top of it all, the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014 and the subsequent war in 2022 caused Ukraine to align itself with the USA and the west after decades of being under the USSR/Russia's sphere of influence.
*** The Levant as a whole is part of Eurasia; the Indian subcontinent has India as a "disputed territory", modern-day Pakistan as part of Oceania, and Kashmir as part of Eastasia; and the Koreas are still united. These would become outdated by the formation of Israel and the outbreak of the Israeli-Arab conflict; the rise of India as a geopolitical great power, Pakistan as its historic rival, and the Kashmir conflict between them and China; and the division of Korea into North and South Korea. Suffice to say, it's hard to imagine the territorial conflicts encompassed by all as having absolutely no affect on the geopolitical arena of the world at large.
*** Japan and China both being part of Eastasia makes no sense when Japan would end up aligning itself with the USA and NATO, while China would end up being forever changed by the reign of Mao Zedong and its eventual growth into a global superpower, which itself would lead to neighboring countries like Vietnam, Thailand, and the Philippines aligning themselves with the west.
*** The end of Apartheid in South Africa, as well as the dissolution of Rhodesia and the independence of Zimbabwe has led to both South Africa and Zimbabwe becoming more aligned with Russia and China than they were with the west, mainly due to the west's support of Apartheid-era South Africa and Rhodesia.
*** Northern Africa and the Arabian Peninsula being part of the "disputed territories" now seems incredibly quaint and outdated after the rise of Gamal Abdel Nasser turned Egypt into a regional power and lead to the rise of Pan-Arabism across Northern Africa and the Middle East, as well as the Gulf states becoming major economic powers in their own right; namely Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Qatar.
*** New Guinea as a whole being part of Oceania, when the New York Agreement in 1962 resulted in the handover of Western New Guinea from the Netherlands to Indonesia, while Papua and New Guinea merged into one administrative territory in 1949 and eventually gained independence in 1975.
*** Cuba being a part of Oceania, which failed to account for the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 that resulted in Cuba becoming aligned with the USSR and was preceded by the severing of ties between the USA and Cuba for over fifty years, as well as the onset of both Fidel Castro and Che Guevara.
*** Venezuela would shift in its alignment from 1999 onwards as a result of a Bolivarian Revolution and the election of the socialist Hugo Chavez, leading to a deterioration of relations between it and the USA and Venezuela gradually realigning itself with Russia and China after the UsefulNotes/TurnOfTheMillennium. In addition, the reign of Nicolas Maduro and the flare-up of the Guyana Esequiba crisis in 2023 has further isolated Venezuela from the USA and its sphere of influence, while worsening relations with its neighbor Guyana.
*** Probably most relevant to ''1984'' itself is the decline of the British Empire; while the UK was weakened in stature after World War II, ''1984'' was still written with the idea that Oceania was made as a result a merger between the British Empire and the United States, to the point where the dominant ideology, Ingsoc, is an abbreviation of "English Socialism". However, the independence of India, Pakistan, Israel, and Malaysia; the Suez Crisis in 1956; the decolonization of Africa; the Troubles in Northern Ireland; and the handover of Hong Kong all contributed to the end of the British Empire and of the United Kingdom as a world superpower, with the Brexit referendum in 2016 further weakening the UK's international standing as a power player in geopolitics. All of these events make it incredibly unlikely that the United Kingdom would ever return to being a dominant enough power to turn a third of the world into a one-party totalitarian state under its rule.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Renamed trope


** The Ministries may actually be true to their names [[FromACertainPointOfView from a certain point of view]], and using The Party's way of thinking. The Ministry of Truth can be justified with doublethink, you may be able to consider the rations you are given by the Ministry of Plenty to be "plenty" from Big Brother's logic, the Ministry of Peace is justified through "WAR IS PEACE" and the Ministry of Love is where you learn to love Big Brother. Alternately, the Ministry of Truth ''manufactures'' truth as defined by the party, and the Ministry of Peace makes a state of internal peace in Oceania by depleting resources.

to:

** The Ministries may actually be true to their names [[FromACertainPointOfView [[MetaphoricallyTrue from a certain point of view]], and using The Party's way of thinking. The Ministry of Truth can be justified with doublethink, you may be able to consider the rations you are given by the Ministry of Plenty to be "plenty" from Big Brother's logic, the Ministry of Peace is justified through "WAR IS PEACE" and the Ministry of Love is where you learn to love Big Brother. Alternately, the Ministry of Truth ''manufactures'' truth as defined by the party, and the Ministry of Peace makes a state of internal peace in Oceania by depleting resources.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The word "wrongthink" is never used in the book. It was likely inspired by "doublethink" or "crimethink" which it does use.

to:

** The word "wrongthink" is never used in the book. It was likely inspired by "doublethink" or "crimethink" which it does use. In fact, "wrong" is probably among the extraneous extra words "Newspeak" is intended to remove.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** This is the work that informs modern life, with "Big Brother" and "BigBrotherIsWatching You," "DoubleThink," "{{Unperson}}," "ThoughtCrime," "thought police," "2+2=5," and "{{Room101}}". While we're at it, there's the [[strike:the war with Eastasia]] Eastasia is our ally. We were always at war with Eurasia. Really, the government in the novel communicates to the public almost entirely through memes.

to:

** This is the work that informs modern life, with "Big Brother" and "BigBrotherIsWatching You," "DoubleThink," "{{Unperson}}," "ThoughtCrime," "thought police," "2+2=5," and "{{Room101}}"."Room101". While we're at it, there's the [[strike:the war with Eastasia]] Eastasia is our ally. We were always at war with Eurasia. Really, the government in the novel communicates to the public almost entirely through memes.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The word "wrongthink" is never used in the book. It was likely inspired by "doublethink" or "crimethink" which it does use.

to:

* ** The word "wrongthink" is never used in the book. It was likely inspired by "doublethink" or "crimethink" which it does use.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* The word "wrongthink" is never used in the book. It was likely inspired by "doublethink" or "crimethink" which it does use.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Adding per ATT.

Added DiffLines:

** While often claimed to be a warning about fascism, communism, and/or socialism, the story is intended to speak out against totalitarianism in general rather than any particular political ideology. Orwell was personally a socialist, but detested authoritarian regimes that had been put in place in the Soviet Union and elsewhere. The original political leaning of the Party is deliberately vague, and their sole concern is retaining power — no more, no less, as stated In-Universe by O'Brien near the end.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
In-universe goes to main


* NarmCharm: In-Universe, Winston find the "Love Song" to be cheesy and boring...but still finds the dedication with which the woman who sings it to be quite moving.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* TooBleakStoppedCaring: A lot of people report struggling to finish the book or abandoning it altogether due to how pessimistic the story is.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* NarmCharm: In-Universe, Winston find the "Love Song" to be cheesy and boring...but still finds the dedication with which the woman who sings it to be quite moving.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Making poor real life comparisons to the setting or themes in the book will also cause this.

to:

** Making poor real life comparisons to the setting or themes in the book will is also cause this.a good way annoy the book's readers, especially if there's no elaboration on why nor evidence of any exploration of ''1984'' beyond knowing that there's a {{Dystopia}} in it. Oceania is a dystopia written with nuance, built on surveillance, psychological manipulation, and an iron grip from the government, so citing it as just a generic "bad place" to inappropriately use as a comparison for any single possible bad thing is a disservice to the book's themes.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The totalitarian society the book describes has been more or less realized by UsefulNotes/NorthKorea, which managed to create a state similar to the condition of Oceania a few ''years'' after the book was published. Creator/ChristopherHitchens used to joke that Kim Il-Sung got a hold of a Korean translation of the novel and said to himself "Well, I don't know if we can make it work, but we can always give it the old college try!"

to:

** The totalitarian society the book describes has been more or less realized by UsefulNotes/NorthKorea, which managed to create a state similar to the condition of Oceania a few ''years'' after the book was published. published[[note]] Strict punishments for minor crimes, with importing a film from another country is a ''death penalty'' crime according to defectors; teaching the people that the enemies are even more totalitarian states; and with the founder, Kim Il-Sung, being worshiped as the messiah, with statues being set up all over the country.[[/note]] Creator/ChristopherHitchens used to joke that Kim Il-Sung got a hold of a Korean translation of the novel and said to himself "Well, I don't know if we can make it work, but we can always give it the old college try!"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The year 1984 itself was allegedly taken from [[http://arlindo-correia.com/101103.html a poem about a bad future written by Orwell's first wife]]. Before that, ''Literature/TheIronHeel'' had used 1984 as an important year in its setting, and Creator/GKChesterton's dystopian novel ''The Napoleon of Notting Hill'' was set in the year 1984.

to:

** The year 1984 itself was allegedly taken from [[http://arlindo-correia.com/101103.html a poem about a bad future written by Orwell's first wife]]. Before that, ''Literature/TheIronHeel'' had used 1984 as an important year in its setting, and Creator/GKChesterton's dystopian novel ''The Napoleon of Notting Hill'' ''Literature/TheNapoleonOfNottingHill'' was set in the year 1984.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The Party's arbitrary changing of their enemies and allies in the possibly-fictional war makes sense both in-universe and out, as a display of their power, and refers to how the USSR went from being stridently anti-Nazi to neutral with friendly leanings during the M-R Pact to being fiercely anti-Nazi again (which to be really fair, is something they only did once, briefly, and that after many years of anti-Nazi coalitions formed with the West fell on deaf years). However, even vaguely insinuating that in a wartime context based off of WWII, that all sides are the same and the war crimes of one state are merely propaganda would probably, and ironically, get Orwell compared to Nazi apologists and possibly even Holocaust deniers today.

to:

** The Party's arbitrary changing of their enemies and allies in the possibly-fictional war makes sense both in-universe and out, as a display of their power, and refers to how the USSR went from being stridently anti-Nazi to neutral with friendly leanings during the M-R Pact to being fiercely anti-Nazi again (which to be really fair, is something they only did once, briefly, and that after many years of anti-Nazi coalitions formed with the West fell on deaf years). However, even vaguely insinuating that in a wartime context based off of WWII, UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, that all sides are the same and the war crimes of one state are merely propaganda would probably, and ironically, get Orwell compared to Nazi apologists and possibly even Holocaust deniers today.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Believe it or not ''1984'' was not the first Dystopian novel of its kind. That honour goes to the book Literature/ParisInTheTwentiethCentury by none other than Creator/JulesVerne. He had written it towards the middle of his life, but the book was shelved until the 1990s when it was rediscovered and published.

to:

** Believe it or not ''1984'' was not the first Dystopian novel of its kind. That honour goes to the book Literature/ParisInTheTwentiethCentury by none other than Creator/JulesVerne. He had written it towards the middle of his life, but the book was shelved until the 1990s TheNineties, when it was rediscovered and published.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


* TrueArtIsAngsty: The book is considered one of the greatest ever written, and is one of the most depressing stories you'll ever read.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The "We've always been at war with Eastasia" scene during hate week is often held up as a major WhamLine. However, the concept of the alliances shifting suddenly and being instantly Retconned is brought up early in the book and intermittently until that point. The Hate Week scene is just when the reader can see so for themselves.

to:

** The "We've always been at war with Eastasia" scene during hate week is often held up as a major WhamLine. However, the concept of the alliances shifting suddenly and being instantly Retconned is brought up early in the book and intermittently until that point. The Hate Week scene is just when the reader can see so for themselves. In fact, the real wham line involving this phrase is when Winston begins to think it himself, and again in the final chapter when the narration casually remarks that Oceania has always been at war with ''Eurasia,'' signalling his complete transformation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There's also strong favourable comparisons to SpiritualAntithesis ''Literature/BraveNewWorld'', for depicting a [[CrapsaccharineWorld vastly different type]] of {{dystopia}} that nonetheless [[http://ritholtz.com/2011/11/orwell-vs-huxley-1984-vs-brave-new-world/ holds the same degree of real-world applicability as this book]].

to:

** There's also strong favourable comparisons to SpiritualAntithesis ''Literature/BraveNewWorld'', for depicting a [[CrapsaccharineWorld vastly different type]] of {{dystopia}} that nonetheless [[http://ritholtz.com/2011/11/orwell-vs-huxley-1984-vs-brave-new-world/ holds the same degree of real-world applicability as this book]]. Interestingly enough, Aldous Huxley, one of Orwell's former teachers [[https://www.openculture.com/2022/06/aldous-huxley-george-orwell-my-hellish-vision-of-the-future-is-better-than-yours-1949.html actually liked the book while also thinking Orwell's dystopia of cruelty was less plausible than his dystopia of comfort]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* UnintentionalPeriodPiece: While the book's overall message of things like mass surveillance, the manipulation of language, and torture were (uncomfortably) prescient, some of the other messages haven't aged well.
** The book is set in a late 20th-century world that is entirely under the rule of totalitarianism. While this fear was plausible in 1949 when much of the world's population was under the thumb of the totalitarian Soviet Union, it became less so since the 1990s when the Soviet Union and its bloc collapsed, and the number of democratic nations grew, [[WhyWereBummedCommunismFell albeit not everywhere]].
** Although Orwell couldn't have predicted them, his futuristic world of total surveillance lacks computers or cell phones.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Some people consider the character of Emmanuel Goldstein to be a symbol of rebellion against tyranny because of his status in the book as a boogeyman for the Party. However, it's likely Goldstein was based on UsefulNotes/LeonTrotsky, whom Orwell considered not much better than the Stalinist regime and whose ideology he famously advocated against.

to:

** Some people consider the character of Emmanuel Goldstein to be a symbol of rebellion against tyranny because of his status in the book as a boogeyman for the Party. However, it's likely Goldstein was based on UsefulNotes/LeonTrotsky, whom Orwell considered not much better than the Stalinist regime and regime, whose ideology he famously advocated against.

Added: 560

Removed: 560

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
sorted example by alphabetical order


* HeartwarmingInHindsight: When Orwell published the book, half of Europe was under the heel of a totalitarian empire and he feared the rest of the world would become totalitarian by the end of the 20th century. By the 1990s, this empire crumbled relatively peacefully, and much of Europe became democratic. Granted, post-communist Europe [[WhyWeAreBummedCommunismFell hasn't lived up to all of its promises]], and places like Belarus and Russia have become authoritarian, but even Putin's Russia hasn't reached the level of totalitarianism Soviet Russia did.



* HeartwarmingInHindsight: When Orwell published the book, half of Europe was under the heel of a totalitarian empire and he feared the rest of the world would become totalitarian by the end of the 20th century. By the 1990s, this empire crumbled relatively peacefully, and much of Europe became democratic. Granted, post-communist Europe [[WhyWeAreBummedCommunismFell hasn't lived up to all of its promises]], and places like Belarus and Russia have become authoritarian, but even Putin's Russia hasn't reached the level of totalitarianism Soviet Russia did.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Making poor real life comparions to the setting or themes in the book will also cause this.

to:

** Making poor real life comparions comparisons to the setting or themes in the book will also cause this.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The otherworldly pyramid architecture of the Ministry buildings. While not necessarily containing an outright sci-fi element, their description evokes a futuristic, utopian feel.

to:

** The otherworldly pyramid architecture of the Ministry buildings. While not necessarily containing an outright sci-fi element, their description evokes a futuristic, utopian sci-fi feel.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The "We've always been at war with Eastasia" scene during hate week is often held up as a major WhamLine. However, the concept of the alliances shifting suddenly and being instantly Retconned is brought up early in the book and intermittently until that point. The Hate Week scene is just when the reader can see so for themselves.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* TrueArtIsAngsty: The book is considered one of the greatest ever written, and it's one of the most depressing ones you'll ever read.

to:

* TrueArtIsAngsty: The book is considered one of the greatest ever written, and it's is one of the most depressing ones stories you'll ever read.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** A comedic version: Creator/MargaretAtwood, creator of another [[Literature/TheHandmaidsTale famous dystopian fiction]], is of course familiar with ''1984'' and said in an article about Orwell that, in her family, ''Do it to Julia!'' had become the standard phrase people used whenever they were told it was their turn to do the washing-up, take out the trash, etc.

to:

** A comedic version: Creator/MargaretAtwood, creator of another [[Literature/TheHandmaidsTale famous dystopian fiction]], is of course familiar with ''1984'' and said in an article about Orwell that, in her family, ''Do it to Julia!'' had become the standard phrase people used whenever they were told it was their turn to do the washing-up, dishes, take out the trash, etc.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* DiscreditedMeme: Comparisons of real world current events to this book in general, especially without referring to a specific concept. "Literally 1984" is more often used ironically than not, and captioning a gif of Big Brother from the Apple commercial with common sense advise has itself become a meme.

to:

* DiscreditedMeme: Comparisons of real world current events to this book in general, especially without referring to a specific concept. "Literally 1984" is more often used ironically than not, and captioning a gif of Big Brother from the Apple commercial with common sense advise advice has itself become a meme.

Top