History YMMV / NineteenEightyFour

7th May '18 8:31:18 AM LtFedora
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* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p9_7xXlR0s Fascist, yes, but stirring]].

to:

* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p9_7xXlR0s [[https://youtu.be/F43DqnMoWi0 Fascist, yes, but stirring]].
28th Mar '18 3:53:21 PM Lloigor
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* SocietyMarchesOn: In general, totalitarian regimes are still feared today, as well they should be, but since Orwell's death, and the downfall of some of the states Orwell was inspired by, we've gotten much more insight into the inner-workings ([[FascistButInefficient or lack thereof)]] of such governments, and the idea that such a state in such a position or condition, will last forever is DatedHistory.

to:

* SocietyMarchesOn: In general, totalitarian regimes are still feared today, as well they should be, but since Orwell's death, and the downfall of some of the states Orwell was inspired by, we've gotten much more insight into the inner-workings ([[FascistButInefficient or lack thereof)]] of such governments, and the idea that such a state in such a position or condition, condition will last forever is DatedHistory.
6th Mar '18 4:11:57 PM frnmmma25
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** The Party's arbitrary changing of their enemies and allies in the possibly-fictional war makes sense both in-universe and out, as a display of their power, and refers to how the USSR went from being stridently anti-Nazi to neutral during the M-R Pact to being fiercely anti-Nazi again (which to be really fair, is something they only did once, briefly, and that after many years of anti-Nazi coalitions formed with the West fell on deaf years). However, even vaguely insinuating that in a wartime context based of WWII, that all sides are the same and the war crimes of one state are merely propaganda would probably, and ironically, get Orwell compared to Holocaust Deniers today.

to:

** The Party's arbitrary changing of their enemies and allies in the possibly-fictional war makes sense both in-universe and out, as a display of their power, and refers to how the USSR went from being stridently anti-Nazi to neutral during the M-R Pact to being fiercely anti-Nazi again (which to be really fair, is something they only did once, briefly, and that after many years of anti-Nazi coalitions formed with the West fell on deaf years). However, even vaguely insinuating that in a wartime context based off of WWII, that all sides are the same and the war crimes of one state are merely propaganda would probably, and ironically, get Orwell compared to Holocaust Deniers today.
17th Feb '18 10:45:03 AM meowloudly15
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Added DiffLines:

** The old man whom Winston talks to in the prole pub about life before the Revolution: genuinely senile and drunk or ObfuscatingInsanity because he fears what Winston, a Party member, may do to him for telling him the truth?
22nd Dec '17 1:51:55 AM passivesmoking
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Added DiffLines:

** The Newspeak vocabulary gave rise to the term [=GroupThink=] to denote the process whereby a group of people will settle into a course of action that some or even most of them wouldn't have considered wise individually due to peer pressure. Whilst the word itself never appeared in the book or the Newspeak appendix its inspiration is clear.
11th Nov '17 8:13:06 PM Vampireandthen
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* FandomBerserkButton: Lots of people think this book depicts a society where you're under surveillance all the time. You aren't, not ''all'' of the time. You just don't know when you're being watched and when you aren't.

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* FandomBerserkButton: Lots of people think this book depicts a society where you're under surveillance all the time. You aren't, not ''all'' of the time. You just don't know when you're being watched and when you aren't. However, one could argue this creates the illusion that you are being watched all the time out of paranoia. Effectively, it is all in your head.
4th Nov '17 6:55:24 PM huntarus
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* PeripheryDemographic: The novel is highly popular among LGBT groups who see the novel's portrayal of constant surveillance, thoughtcrime, and enforcement of ideology as a metaphor for how heteronormativ social values forced LGBT peoples to remain in the closet, and find love in secret and in hiding, with Winston and Julia's admittedly straight but forbidden romance, a reflection of how they had to find love and their brutal "reeducation" disturbingly similar to the attempts at CureYourGays by heterosexual peoples. Indeed, Music/DavidBowie planned a musical adaptation of the novel (which eventually got worked into Music/DiamondDogs) that would have focused on this aspect of the book. With that in mind, it can be quite a shock to learn that Orwell was himself a lifelong and dedicated HeteronormativeCrusader and that at Eton he, as a Prefect, would rat out students he suspected of being gay.

to:

* PeripheryDemographic: The novel is highly popular among LGBT groups who see the novel's portrayal of constant surveillance, thoughtcrime, and enforcement of ideology as a metaphor for how heteronormativ heteronormative social values forced LGBT peoples to remain in the closet, and find love in secret and in hiding, with Winston and Julia's admittedly straight but forbidden romance, a reflection of how they had to find love and their brutal "reeducation" disturbingly similar to the attempts at CureYourGays by heterosexual peoples. Indeed, Music/DavidBowie planned a musical adaptation of the novel (which eventually got worked into Music/DiamondDogs) that would have focused on this aspect of the book. With that in mind, it can be quite a shock to learn that Orwell was himself a lifelong and dedicated HeteronormativeCrusader and that at Eton he, as a Prefect, would rat out students he suspected of being gay.
25th Jul '17 9:06:11 PM JulianLapostat
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* ValuesResonance: TheWarOnTerror created a world where government-enforced surveillance gets uncomfortably close to what Orwell wrote. Subverted in that the proliferation of video capture devices have been used ''against'' authority as well. Also, in that most Western democracies that practice heavy surveillance do not routinely engage in show trials against political enemies which result in mass public executions.
* TheWoobie: Winston and Julia, ''especially'' in the movie.

to:

* ValuesResonance: The rise and spread of mass media politics, consumerist advertising, PR-Based Politics that emphasize image over content, and the new technologies that rose during TheWarOnTerror created a world where such as government-enforced surveillance gets uncomfortably close to what makes Orwell's overly paranoid satire relevant and applicable even after the USSR and Fascist states that Orwell wrote. Subverted in was targeting had fallen. The fact that the proliferation of video capture devices have been used ''against'' authority as well. Also, novel is a best-seller in that most Western democracies that practice heavy surveillance do not routinely engage in show trials against political enemies which result in mass public executions.
TheNewTens vindicates its strength.
* TheWoobie: Winston and Julia, ''especially'' in the movie.movie.
----
25th Jul '17 8:58:57 PM JulianLapostat
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* PeripheryDemographic: The novel is highly popular among LGBT groups who see the novel's portrayal of constant surveillance, thoughtcrime, and enforcement of ideology as a metaphor for how the existence of heterosexual peoples and today's heteronormative society forces LGBT peoples to remain in the closet, with Winston and Julia's admittedly straight but forbidden romance a reflection of how they had to find love and their brutal "reeducation" disturbingly similar to the attempts at CureYourGays by heterosexual peoples. Indeed, Music/DavidBowie planned a musical adaptation of the novel (which eventually got worked into Music/DiamondDogs) that would focus on this aspect of the book. With that in mind, it can be quite a shock to learn that Orwell was himself a lifelong and dedicated HeteronormativeCrusader and that at Eton he, as a Prefect, would rat out students he suspected of being gay.

to:

* PeripheryDemographic: The novel is highly popular among LGBT groups who see the novel's portrayal of constant surveillance, thoughtcrime, and enforcement of ideology as a metaphor for how the existence of heterosexual peoples and today's heteronormative society forces heteronormativ social values forced LGBT peoples to remain in the closet, and find love in secret and in hiding, with Winston and Julia's admittedly straight but forbidden romance romance, a reflection of how they had to find love and their brutal "reeducation" disturbingly similar to the attempts at CureYourGays by heterosexual peoples. Indeed, Music/DavidBowie planned a musical adaptation of the novel (which eventually got worked into Music/DiamondDogs) that would focus have focused on this aspect of the book. With that in mind, it can be quite a shock to learn that Orwell was himself a lifelong and dedicated HeteronormativeCrusader and that at Eton he, as a Prefect, would rat out students he suspected of being gay.



* TearJerker: Has its [[TearJerker/NineteenEightyFour own page]].

to:

* TearJerker: Has SocietyMarchesOn: In general, totalitarian regimes are still feared today, as well they should be, but since Orwell's death, and the downfall of some of the states Orwell was inspired by, we've gotten much more insight into the inner-workings ([[FascistButInefficient or lack thereof)]] of such governments, and the idea that such a state in such a position or condition, will last forever is DatedHistory.
** The Party's predilection towards corruption and ChronicBackStabbingDisorder is Handwaved by O'Brien stating that Inner Party Members function by DoubleThink. Psychology-inspired historical studies has discovered that such people at the top of such regimes would not be like O'Brien -- a ruthless, cunning, sadistic, yet loyal and sophisticated man, but rather the paranoia and fear of a climate constant purges and flip-flopping shifts in loyalties would determine that such people were more likely to put on a MaskOfSanity as a dull, incompetent bureaucrat who only makes rent by taking bribes and falls BeneathSuspicion, or a total psychopath who gives good speeches, but would rather just torture you right away than explain the Party's philosophy, and wouldn't DoubleThink diddley-squat if it meant living in squalor and fear of other such people.
** The idea that people under torture would break and ''really'' love big brother was inspired by the spectacle of the Moscow Show Trials whereby Old Bolsheviks were forced to confess to absurd crimes and betrayals in front of news cameras. The truth, as post-Cold War history has revealed, was that most of them were tortured and their families and friends [[IHaveYourWife were threatened if they didn't confess]], and none of them really did believe their accusations, nor were many of the inmates and victims who were sent to TheGulag.
** The idea that a perpetual war, especially one that was constantly and literally hitting close to home, was a good way to maintain public support should've been discredited after UsefulNotes/WorldWarI, and is even more laughable in the U.S. due to UsefulNote/TheVietnamWar and Iraq. It makes sense in Orwell's model where the people of the Soviet Union backed Stalin and his regime as a bulwark against Nazism, as did the Western Communists who Orwell saw as his real target, but of course in that situation Stalin didn't have to make up any fake war, since [[AlwaysChaoticEvil the Nazis]] really did invade the USSR and with unspeakable horrifying brutality moreover.
** Most important is Orwell's portrayal of totalitarianism and
its [[TearJerker/NineteenEightyFour own page]].propaganda-based mass-media society as an aspect of ideological conditioning and something that can happen in Britain. Historians studying the USSR after the Cold War see the Stalin regime as backsliding to the Tsarist era, and that USSR party bureaucracy and Stalin's famous nomenklatura wasn't based on ideology but [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronage_in_ancient_Rome client-patron relations]], something which is present in Tsarist society and other traditional societies, and even in Ancient Rome. Real-life Big Brothers and O'Brien operate closer to [[Film/TheGodfather Don Corleone]] or the ''Film/{{Goodfellas}}''. So the idea that a big-brother style system is a modern phenomenon driven by ideology and DoubleThink as Orwell notes is a very elegant satire on say "party discipline" in the British Communist Party and other BourgeoisBohemian fellow-traveler circles, [[WriteWhatYouKnow the only model Orwell]] really knew about, but it's probably not a good model for understanding why authoritarian regimes and dictatorships flourished in the past and the present.



* SocietyMarchesOn: In general, totalitarian regimes are still feared today, as well they should be, but as shown on the Headscratchers page, since Orwell's death we've gotten much more insight into the inner-workings ([[FascistButInefficient or lack thereof)]] of such governments, and the idea of such a state in that position will last forever has been deconstructed.
** Their predilection towards corruption and ChronicBackStabbingDisorder is Handwaved by O'Brien stating that Inner Party Members DoubleThink that they are the Party, and that the Party is controlling them, but it's doubtful such an ideology would work very well, especially given what's said below.
** Psychology has come a long way, especially in regards to the kind of people at the top of such regimes. The novel presents O'Brien, the effective face of the Inner Party, as ruthless, cunning, sadistic, yet loyal and sophisticated. The Headscratcher pages makes it clear that even in 1949, the constant purges of anyone out-of-the-ordinary and ChronicBackStabbingDisorder were showing that in such regimes, you're either a dull, incompetent bureaucrat who only makes rent by taking bribes, or a total psychopath who gives good speeches, but would rather just torture you right away than explain the Party's philosophy, and wouldn't DoubleThink diddley-squat if it meant living in squalor and fear of other such people.
** The idea of a perpetual war, especially one that was constantly and literally hitting close to home, as a good way to maintain public support should've been discredited after UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. and is even more laughable in the U.S. due to UsefulNote/TheVietnamWar and Iraq.
* ValuesDissonance: The Party's arbitrary changing of their enemies and allies in the possibly-fictional war makes sense both in-universe and out, as a display of their power, and a reference to how the USSR reacted to Hitler's betrayal. However, even vaguely insinuating that in a war based of WWII, that all sides are the same and the war crimes of one state are merely propaganda would probably, and ironically, get Orwell compared to Holocaust Deniers today.
* UnfortunateImplications:
** Despite its strong female lead, the novel has been accused of misogyny in how Winston notes that all the party's fanatic followers are women, and how even Julia's appearance is so often emphasized as very important.
** The idea of NewSpeak, and how some languages or dialects are inherently superior to others, is ScienceMarchesOn at ''best'', and elitist/imperialistic at worst.

to:

* SocietyMarchesOn: In general, totalitarian regimes are still feared today, ValuesDissonance:
** The Party's arbitrary changing of their enemies and allies in the possibly-fictional war makes sense both in-universe and out,
as well a display of their power, and refers to how the USSR went from being stridently anti-Nazi to neutral during the M-R Pact to being fiercely anti-Nazi again (which to be really fair, is something they should be, but as shown on only did once, briefly, and that after many years of anti-Nazi coalitions formed with the Headscratchers page, since Orwell's death we've gotten much more insight into West fell on deaf years). However, even vaguely insinuating that in a wartime context based of WWII, that all sides are the inner-workings ([[FascistButInefficient or lack thereof)]] of such governments, same and the idea war crimes of such a one state in that position will last forever has been deconstructed.are merely propaganda would probably, and ironically, get Orwell compared to Holocaust Deniers today.
** Their predilection towards corruption and ChronicBackStabbingDisorder is Handwaved by O'Brien stating Indeed, Orwell in one of his letters, believed that Inner Party Members DoubleThink that they are the Party, and that the Party is controlling them, but it's doubtful such an ideology Britain after UsefulNotes/WorldWarII would work very well, especially given what's said below.
** Psychology has come a long way, especially in regards to the kind of people at the top of such regimes. The novel presents O'Brien, the effective face of the Inner Party, as ruthless, cunning, sadistic, yet loyal and sophisticated. The Headscratcher pages makes it clear that even in 1949, the constant purges of anyone out-of-the-ordinary and ChronicBackStabbingDisorder were showing that in such regimes, you're
either a dull, incompetent bureaucrat who only makes rent by taking bribes, end in fascism or a total psychopath who gives good speeches, but would rather just torture you right away than explain socialist dictatorship, which considering how British resolve during the Party's philosophy, and wouldn't DoubleThink diddley-squat if it meant living in squalor and fear of other such people.
** The idea of a perpetual war, especially one that was constantly and literally hitting close to home, as a good way to maintain public support should've been discredited after UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. and is even more laughable in the U.S. due to UsefulNote/TheVietnamWar and Iraq.
* ValuesDissonance: The Party's arbitrary changing of their enemies and allies in the possibly-fictional
war makes sense both in-universe and out, as a display of their power, and a reference to how where they defied Nazism before the USSR reacted to Hitler's betrayal. However, even vaguely insinuating that in and USA got involved, is rightly seen as its GloryDays, is [[WorstNewsJudgmentEver a war based of WWII, that all sides are rather weird judgment]] on the same events and the war crimes of one state are merely propaganda would probably, and ironically, get Orwell compared needless to Holocaust Deniers today.
* UnfortunateImplications:
say.
** Despite its strong female lead, the novel has been accused of misogyny in how Winston notes that all the party's fanatic followers are women, and how even Julia's appearance is so often emphasized as very important.
important, and likewise the portrayal of Julia as a strong rebel who ultimately breaks down in torture and submits to the party and as such no different morally and figuratively from Winston, the "a-political" cog in the wheel of the system does reflect some of Orwell's gender biases.
** The idea of NewSpeak, and how some languages or dialects are inherently superior to others, is ScienceMarchesOn at ''best'', and elitist/imperialistic at worst. Much of which was inspired by Orwell propagandizing BeigeProse in his essays and this attitude would be criticized, then and later, by writers like Julian Barnes, Will Self, Creator/SalmanRushdie among others, for its {{Schoolmarm}}-like recommendation of linguistic purity and discipline, [[BecameTheirOwnAntithesis of the kind that Orwell]] was supposedly railing itself.
25th Jul '17 7:52:12 PM BaronVonFistcrunch
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* SocietyMarchesOn: In general, totalitarian regimes are still feared today, as well they should be, but as shown on the Headscratchers page, since Orwell's death we've gotten much more insight into the inner-workings ([[FascistButInefficient or lack thereof)}} of such governments, and the idea of such a state in that position will last forever has been deconstructed.

to:

* SocietyMarchesOn: In general, totalitarian regimes are still feared today, as well they should be, but as shown on the Headscratchers page, since Orwell's death we've gotten much more insight into the inner-workings ([[FascistButInefficient or lack thereof)}} thereof)]] of such governments, and the idea of such a state in that position will last forever has been deconstructed.
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