History YMMV / HarryPotter

18th Jan '17 11:09:54 AM ThorfinnRowle
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* Ted and Andromeda Tonks

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* ** Ted and Andromeda TonksTonks were both mentioned in the fifth book, and did not appear until the last. Though Ted gets a few lines and a small role where he is on the run and [[spoiler: is eventually killed]], Andromeda doesn't get so much as a line and doesn't even participate in the final battle.



*** Similarly, we hear a few mentions of Snape being a part of a gang of Slytherins at Hogwarts, however we never see them in any of the flashback scenes. Among them are an Avery and Mulciber who we never even see Snape interacting with in the present.
** Ludo Bagman. After having a decent role in the fourth book where he was shown acting suspicious and was revealed to have connections with the Death Eaters, many suspected that he would play a role in Voldemort's return. Perhaps he would've turned out to be a Death Eater all along? Perhaps he could've been one of the few friendly faces in the Ministry?



** Likewise, fans expected that Harry would eventually learn more magic and become more competent and take on Voldemort on a duel similar or close to the one between Voldemort and Dumbledore at the end of ''Order of the Phoenix''; [[spoiler:fans weren't too pleased by the way Voldemort gets killed via HeroicSacrifice, GambitPileup, ThePowerOfLove and confusion over who does the Elder Wand obey]]. Likewise, fans expected a meaningful confrontation between Snape and Harry after ''Half-Blood Prince''; [[spoiler:instead Snape gets killed by Voldemort thanks to the above confusion, and they barely exchange words before Snape [[ImDyingPleaseTakeMyMacGuffin completes Dumbledore's final errand]]]].

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** Likewise, fans expected that Harry would eventually learn more magic and become more competent and take on Voldemort on a duel similar or close to the one between Voldemort and Dumbledore at the end of ''Order of the Phoenix''; [[spoiler:fans weren't too pleased by the way Voldemort gets killed via HeroicSacrifice, GambitPileup, ThePowerOfLove and confusion over who does the Elder Wand obey]].
**
Likewise, fans expected a meaningful confrontation between Snape and Harry after ''Half-Blood Prince''; [[spoiler:instead Snape gets killed by Voldemort thanks to the above confusion, and they barely exchange words before Snape [[ImDyingPleaseTakeMyMacGuffin completes Dumbledore's final errand]]]].errand]]]].
** Many were disappointed when the Dumbledore's Army meetings didn't continue in ''Half-Blood Prince''. Though Harry handwaves this by saying the purpose of the meetings was due to Umbridge's poor teaching methods, this isn't even true. The meetings were to make sure the students were better prepared to fight Voldemort and the Death Eaters who were certainly still at large.
11th Jan '17 9:23:31 AM Aurelian
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** The name of [[UnfortunateNames Nymphadora Tonks]]. "Tonker" being a word popularized by ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'' for a certain part of the anatomy, and "Nymphadora" sounding terribly similar to the word "nymphomania". Lampshaded by Tonks herself; she ''hates'' her first name.

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** The name of [[UnfortunateNames [[UnfortunateNfames Nymphadora Tonks]]. "Tonker" being a word popularized by ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'' for a certain part of the anatomy, and "Nymphadora" sounding terribly similar to the word "nymphomania". Lampshaded by Tonks herself; she ''hates'' her first name.



** A lot of fans bash the main characters, and Gryffindor House in general, because of the author's prejudice against [[AmbitionIsEvil Slytherin House]], who they view as cultured and urbane[[note]]Though only Draco shows this quality, every other Slytherin is more or less a snide idiot, thug, henchman and lackey[[/note]] in comparison to the [[JerkJock crude, bullying Gryffindor jocks]][[note]]Among Harry's generation, only Fred and George would remotely qualify for that[[/note]]. In a slightly different perspective, they recognize most of Slytherin is evil, but criticize the author for making them so, especially considering their defining trait is "ambition", which any normal eleven-year-old would have oodles of ("I wanna be a ninja/astronaut/actor/doctor/lawyer!") and the fact that most Slytherins in the book don't really display [[YouKeepUsingThatWord ambition]], being rich kids who are content to live off and lord over their traditions to those they see as "beneath them" rather than really innovate or make something of their lives. NotHelpingYourCase is that in an interview on Mugglenet Rowling defended Slytherin and said "they are literally not all bad [people]". The problem is that it's not until the sixth book that ''one'' Slytherin (Professor Slughorn) is shown to be anything other than a {{Jerkass}} and Voldemort supporter, which can come off as too little too late and even Slughorn is a bit of a coward.

to:

** A lot of fans bash the main characters, and Gryffindor House in general, because of the author's prejudice against [[AmbitionIsEvil Slytherin House]], who they view as cultured and urbane[[note]]Though only Draco shows this quality, every other Slytherin is more or less a snide idiot, thug, henchman and lackey[[/note]] in comparison to the [[JerkJock crude, bullying Gryffindor jocks]][[note]]Among Harry's generation, only Fred and George would remotely qualify for that[[/note]]. In a slightly different perspective, they recognize most of Slytherin is evil, but criticize the author for making them so, especially considering their defining trait is "ambition", which any normal eleven-year-old would have oodles of ("I wanna be a ninja/astronaut/actor/doctor/lawyer!") and the fact that most Slytherins in the book don't really display [[YouKeepUsingThatWord ambition]], being rich kids who are content to live off and lord over their traditions to those they see as "beneath them" rather than really innovate or make something of their lives. NotHelpingYourCase is that in an interview on Mugglenet Rowling defended Slytherin and said "they are literally not all bad [people]". The problem is that it's not until the sixth book that ''one'' Slytherin (Professor Slughorn) is shown to be anything other than a {{Jerkass}} and Voldemort supporter, which can come off as too little too late late. It has been suggested in some quarters that even Slughorn, the most decent Slytherin in the series, is portrayed as a bit of a coward, yet Slughorn distinguished himself at the battle of Hogwarts, fetching reinforcements and even duelled Voldemort at the end. The worst that can really be said of Slughorn is a bit of a coward. his penchant for cosying up to people whose friendship may benefit him in some way.
11th Jan '17 1:52:53 AM JulianLapostat
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** Snape is one of the more extreme examples, and would likely top that list if he were ever paired off with anyone.
*** The most divisive thing about his character is his morality. Was he a [[spoiler: tragic HeartbrokenBadass]], or was he just an EntitledBastard who thinks a few good deeds justifies his dickish behavior and [[spoiler: completely insults Lily's memory by bullying Harry]].
*** Some feminist fans have also heavily criticized the character for his supposed misogynist undertones. Depending on who you ask, either [[spoiler: his love for Lily]] was his biggest redeeming quality, or [[spoiler: his relationship with her was doomed from the beginning]] because [[spoiler: he saw her more as a ''prize'' than a person]], and [[spoiler: he didn't respect her enough to accept that she chose James over him]].
*** [[IntendedAudienceReaction Snape was created to intentionally to be this]]. Creator/JKRowling has confirmed that she thinks he was both a good and bad person at the same time. When asked if she thought Snape a hero, said:

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** Snape is one of the more extreme examples, and would likely top that list if he were ever paired off with anyone.
***
anyone. The most divisive thing about his character is his morality. Was he a [[spoiler: tragic HeartbrokenBadass]], or was he just an EntitledBastard who thinks a few good deeds justifies his dickish behavior and [[spoiler: completely insults Lily's memory by bullying Harry]].
***
Harry]]. [[http://www.tor.com/2013/04/23/severus-snape-does-not-deserve-your-pity/ Some feminist feminist]] [[https://www.bustle.com/articles/125227-why-i-will-never-be-team-snape-no-matter-how-people-romanticize-him fans have also heavily criticized criticized]] the character character, or rather his fans, for romanticizing his supposed misogynist undertones. Depending on who you ask, either [[spoiler: obsession for [[spoiler:Lily Evans. The Book 7 revelations redeemed him in the narrative of the books and among his love for Lily]] fans even if said romance was his biggest redeeming quality, or [[spoiler: his relationship with entirely one-sided fixation that ultimately regarded her was doomed from the beginning]] because [[spoiler: he saw her more as a ''prize'' than a person]], and [[spoiler: and, as is evidenced in the scene where he tears her out of his family photo, he didn't respect her enough to accept that she chose James James, and Harry, over him]].
*** [[IntendedAudienceReaction Snape was created to intentionally to be this]].
him]]. Creator/JKRowling has confirmed that she thinks he was both a good and bad person at the same time. When asked if she thought Snape a hero, said:



** James Potter, thanks to his past as a bully and the lack of proper development; the TimeSkip has him go from bullying Snape to being a wonderful father to Harry. Unfortunately, some of his detractors go too far in their hatred of him, even accusing his fans of being "apologists".

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** James Potter, thanks to his past as a bully and who is built up in the lack of proper development; first four books as an all around great wizard only for the fifth book to present a ShockingSwerve with the revelation that he bullied Snape, with barely any additional information to explain how he changed to become the character described in the first four books. The TimeSkip has him go from bullying Snape to being a wonderful father to Harry. Unfortunately, some of his detractors go too far in their hatred of him, even accusing his fans of being "apologists".



** While Snape's far from flawless, there are those who will completely overlook his desire to protect people and his loyalty to Dumbledore. There are also those who will say that ''preemptive karma'' justifies James and Sirius bullying him at school.
*** On the other hand, rabid and crazy Snape fans insist that James and Sirius are monsters and that James bullied/raped/forced Lily into marrying him instead of the fanon!Snape they have in mind. Not to mention there's how they demonize Lily for not taking Snape's own bullcrap, openly saying she was a bad friend and a total whore for cutting her friendship with him ''when she had every reason in the world to do so''.

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** While Snape's far from flawless, there are those who will completely overlook his desire to protect people and his loyalty to Dumbledore. There are also those who will say that ''preemptive karma'' justifies James and Sirius bullying him at school.
*** On the other hand, rabid
Rabid and crazy Snape fans insist that James and Sirius are monsters and that James bullied/raped/forced Lily into marrying him instead of the fanon!Snape they have in mind. Not to mention there's how they demonize Lily for not taking Snape's own bullcrap, openly saying she was a bad friend and a total whore for cutting her friendship with him ''when she had every reason in the world to do so''.



* RootingForTheEmpire: A lot of fans bash the main characters, and Gryffindor House in general, because of the author's prejudice against [[AmbitionIsEvil Slytherin House]], who they view as cultured and urbane in comparison to the [[JerkJock crude, bullying Gryffindor jocks.]] In a slightly different perspective, they recognize most of Slytherin is evil, but criticize the author for making them so, especially considering their defining trait is "ambition", which any normal eleven-year-old would have oodles of ("I wanna be a ninja/astronaut/actor/doctor/lawyer!"). So, to rebel, they generally ignore the fact that Slytherin sucks, and reinterpret them in the fandom to make a more realistic picture of cunning and ambition.
** In an interview on Mugglenet Rowling defended Slytherin and said "they are literally not all bad [people]". The problem is that it's not until the sixth book that ''one'' Slytherin (Professor Slughorn) is shown to be anything other than a {{Jerkass}} and Voldemort supporter, which can come off as too little too late.
** There's also the possibility of an UnreliableNarrator. The books are mostly told from Harry's point of view. Harry dislikes the Slytherins, who are the main rivals of his own house Gryffindor. Most of the information he gets about Slytherin early in his wizarding life is negative and comes from pro-Gryffindor sources like Hagrid, Hermione and the Weasleys (to the point where he prays he won't be sorted into Slytherin). And his three bete noir, Snape, Malfoy and Voldemort, are all Slytherins (he never has much interaction with most of the others). It's therefore not a surprise that the reader gets a skewed perspective on the house. By the end of book 7 Harry's views on Slytherin had clearly changed, thanks to TheReveal about Snape.
** Individually, fans started to dislike Harry's [[{{Wangst}} irritable nature]] more and more after ''[[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix Order of the Phoenix]]''. This contributed to increased favouritism of Draco, which JK Rowling admitted to disliking; she was a bit disturbed that people didn't like the hero and preferred Draco. She even admitted to punishing/exaggerating Draco and the Slytherins where she could to counteract it (which [[NiceJobBreakingItHero naturally just increased resentment that led some readers to prefer the villains in the first place]]).

to:

* RootingForTheEmpire: RootingForTheEmpire:
**
A lot of fans bash the main characters, and Gryffindor House in general, because of the author's prejudice against [[AmbitionIsEvil Slytherin House]], who they view as cultured and urbane urbane[[note]]Though only Draco shows this quality, every other Slytherin is more or less a snide idiot, thug, henchman and lackey[[/note]] in comparison to the [[JerkJock crude, bullying Gryffindor jocks.]] jocks]][[note]]Among Harry's generation, only Fred and George would remotely qualify for that[[/note]]. In a slightly different perspective, they recognize most of Slytherin is evil, but criticize the author for making them so, especially considering their defining trait is "ambition", which any normal eleven-year-old would have oodles of ("I wanna be a ninja/astronaut/actor/doctor/lawyer!"). So, to rebel, they generally ignore ninja/astronaut/actor/doctor/lawyer!") and the fact that Slytherin sucks, and reinterpret them most Slytherins in the fandom book don't really display [[YouKeepUsingThatWord ambition]], being rich kids who are content to live off and lord over their traditions to those they see as "beneath them" rather than really innovate or make a more realistic picture something of cunning and ambition.
** In
their lives. NotHelpingYourCase is that in an interview on Mugglenet Rowling defended Slytherin and said "they are literally not all bad [people]". The problem is that it's not until the sixth book that ''one'' Slytherin (Professor Slughorn) is shown to be anything other than a {{Jerkass}} and Voldemort supporter, which can come off as too little too late.
** There's also the possibility of an UnreliableNarrator. The books are mostly told from Harry's point of view. Harry dislikes the Slytherins, who are the main rivals of his own house Gryffindor. Most of the information he gets about Slytherin early in his wizarding life is negative
late and comes from pro-Gryffindor sources like Hagrid, Hermione and the Weasleys (to the point where he prays he won't be sorted into Slytherin). And his three bete noir, Snape, Malfoy and Voldemort, are all Slytherins (he never has much interaction with most even Slughorn is a bit of the others). It's therefore not a surprise that the reader gets a skewed perspective on the house. By the end of book 7 Harry's views on Slytherin had clearly changed, thanks to TheReveal about Snape.coward.
** Individually, fans started to dislike Harry's [[{{Wangst}} irritable nature]] more and more after ''[[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix Order of the Phoenix]]''. This contributed to increased favouritism of Draco, which JK Rowling admitted to disliking; she was a bit disturbed that some people didn't like the hero and preferred Draco. She even admitted to punishing/exaggerating Draco and the Slytherins where she could to counteract it (which [[NiceJobBreakingItHero naturally just increased resentment that led some readers to prefer the villains in the first place]]).
11th Jan '17 12:45:20 AM Aurelian
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** There's also the possibility of an UnreliableNarrator. The books are mostly told from Harry's point of view. Harry dislikes the Slytherins, who are the main rivals of his own house Gryffindor. Between learning he's a wizard and getting to Hogwarts, all he hears is bad things about Slytherin (to the point where he prays he won't be sorted into that house). And his three bete noir, Snape, Malfoy and Voldemort, are all Slytherins (he never has much interaction with most of the others). It's therefore not a surprise that the reader gets a skewed perspective on the house. By the end of book 7 Harry's views on Slytherin had clearly changed, thanks to TheReveal about Snape.

to:

** There's also the possibility of an UnreliableNarrator. The books are mostly told from Harry's point of view. Harry dislikes the Slytherins, who are the main rivals of his own house Gryffindor. Between learning he's a wizard and getting to Hogwarts, all Most of the information he hears is bad things gets about Slytherin early in his wizarding life is negative and comes from pro-Gryffindor sources like Hagrid, Hermione and the Weasleys (to the point where he prays he won't be sorted into that house).Slytherin). And his three bete noir, Snape, Malfoy and Voldemort, are all Slytherins (he never has much interaction with most of the others). It's therefore not a surprise that the reader gets a skewed perspective on the house. By the end of book 7 Harry's views on Slytherin had clearly changed, thanks to TheReveal about Snape.
10th Jan '17 4:09:22 PM Aurelian
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** There's also the possibility of an UnreliableNarrator. The books are mostly told from Harry's point of view. Harry dislikes the Slytherins, who are the main rivals of his own house Gryffindor. Between learning he's a wizard and getting to Hogwarts, all he hears is bad things about Slytherin (to the point where he prays he won't be sorted into that house). And his three bete noir, Snape, Malfoy and Voldemort, are all Slytherins (he never has much interaction with most of the others). By the end of book 7 his views on Slytherin had changed, thanks to TheReveal about Snape.

to:

** There's also the possibility of an UnreliableNarrator. The books are mostly told from Harry's point of view. Harry dislikes the Slytherins, who are the main rivals of his own house Gryffindor. Between learning he's a wizard and getting to Hogwarts, all he hears is bad things about Slytherin (to the point where he prays he won't be sorted into that house). And his three bete noir, Snape, Malfoy and Voldemort, are all Slytherins (he never has much interaction with most of the others). It's therefore not a surprise that the reader gets a skewed perspective on the house. By the end of book 7 his Harry's views on Slytherin had clearly changed, thanks to TheReveal about Snape.
10th Jan '17 3:58:03 PM Aurelian
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Added DiffLines:

** There's also the possibility of an UnreliableNarrator. The books are mostly told from Harry's point of view. Harry dislikes the Slytherins, who are the main rivals of his own house Gryffindor. Between learning he's a wizard and getting to Hogwarts, all he hears is bad things about Slytherin (to the point where he prays he won't be sorted into that house). And his three bete noir, Snape, Malfoy and Voldemort, are all Slytherins (he never has much interaction with most of the others). By the end of book 7 his views on Slytherin had changed, thanks to TheReveal about Snape.
6th Jan '17 7:32:48 AM SeptimusHeap
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* FreudWasRight: Harry crushing after a tough, popular, caring and attractive redhead - does Ginny resemble Lily much?



* FreudWasRight:
** Cormac [=MacLaggen=]'s deluxe-model broom, as compared to Ron's smaller thinner hand-me-down one in ''Half-Blood Prince''.
** When Voldemort takes Lucius's wand in ''Deathly Hallows'' (snapping off its cane handle), Lucius flinches as if he had just been castrated.
*** [[http://makani.deviantart.com/art/fanart100-triangle-78381400 He decapitated]] [[http://makani.deviantart.com/art/lucius-malfoy-mr-tough-guy-11849698?q=sort%3Atime%20gallery%3Amakani&qo=199 poor Snakey!]]
5th Jan '17 1:01:32 PM Aurelian
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Added DiffLines:

* WhatCouldHaveBeen: An in-universe example. Trelawney's prophecy that marked Harry as the one who would destroy Voldemort could also have referred to Neville Longbottom (who, like Harry, was born at the end of July to parents who had defied Voldemort three times) but Voldemort decided Harry (a half-blood like himself) was his nemesis rather than the pure-blooded Neville. At one point Harry himself wonders what would have happened if Voldemort had decided Neville was the fabled Chosen One instead.
5th Jan '17 12:29:20 PM Aurelian
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** With the exception of Quidditch, which developed because he was "naturally gifted", Harry is mostly a middling student, not significantly different than Ron or Neville. As far as his Defense Abilities goes, he always had the AdvantageBall since Death Eaters were ordered by Voldemort not to kill him, and Harry was specially protected against Voldemort by advanced magic nobody knew a lot about. The only time Harry fights a duel against a competent wizard [[spoiler:is in Half-Blood Prince where Snape gives him a CurbStompBattle]]. Compared to the magic done by his parents' generation at Hogwarts, not to mention Riddle and Dumbledore at the same age, Harry's kind of unimpressive in terms of creative ability and skills. Even with Quidditch, as gifted as Harry is, Gryffindor managed to win the Cup twice without him, which kind of raises questions if Harry is otherwise exceptionally gifted in any area or more a JackOfAllStats with the luck for finding a PlotCoupon.
** Likewise, Snape keeps bullying Hermione by calling her an insufferable know-it-all but has Hermione ever really created and innovated in magic? Most of the times she recreates spells and potions described in books perfectly but she hasn't really demonstrated ability to say improve potions experiments and likewise she readily dismisses areas of magic that are unknown or experimental. Demonstrating surprise that just because there are only a few registered animagi, there couldn't be unregistered animagi, and likewise dismissing the Deathly Hallows as a hoax despite the evidence of the Invisibility Cloak in front of her.

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** With the exception of Quidditch, which developed because he was "naturally gifted", Harry is mostly a middling student, not significantly different than Ron or Neville. As far as his Defense Abilities goes, he always had the AdvantageBall since Death Eaters were ordered by Voldemort not to kill him, and Harry was specially protected against Voldemort by advanced magic nobody knew a lot about. The only time Harry fights a duel against a competent wizard [[spoiler:is in Half-Blood Prince where Snape gives him a CurbStompBattle]]. Compared to the magic done by his parents' generation at Hogwarts,[[note]]James and his friends had made themselves animagi whilst still at Hogwarts, while the teenage Snape was creating his own curses and making improvements to official potion recipes[[/note]] not to mention Riddle and Dumbledore at the same age, Harry's kind of unimpressive in terms of creative ability and skills. Even with Quidditch, as gifted as Harry is, Gryffindor managed to win the Cup twice without him, which kind of raises questions if Harry is otherwise exceptionally gifted in any area or more a JackOfAllStats with the luck for finding a PlotCoupon.
** Likewise, Snape keeps bullying Hermione by calling her an insufferable know-it-all but has Hermione ever really created and innovated in magic? Most of the times time she recreates spells and potions described in books perfectly but she hasn't really demonstrated ability to say improve potions experiments and likewise she readily dismisses areas of magic that are unknown or experimental. Demonstrating surprise She dismisses the idea that just because there are only a few registered animagi, there couldn't could be more unregistered animagi, animagi in the world simply because a book says so, and likewise dismissing dismisses the Deathly Hallows as a hoax despite the evidence of the Invisibility Cloak in front of her.
5th Jan '17 5:06:54 AM Aurelian
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* MoralEventHorizon: In ''Chamber of Secrets'', Lucius was clearly about to cast Avada Kedavra on Harry, as opposed to the book version where his spell is ambiguous. He's about to kill a 12-year old, [[DisproportionateRetribution over a house elf!]] This is really Jason Isaac's fault - [[RealLifeWritesThePlot he was told to just use "a spell", and the first thing that came to mind was the words of the Killing Curse]]. He later admitted that he hadn't realised ''which'' spell he'd been wording until after filming was completed.

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* MoralEventHorizon: In ''Chamber of Secrets'', Lucius was clearly about to cast Avada Kedavra on Harry, as opposed to the book version where his spell is ambiguous. He's about to kill a 12-year old, right outside Dumbledore's office, [[DisproportionateRetribution over a house elf!]] elf!]]. This is really Jason Isaac's fault - [[RealLifeWritesThePlot he was told to just use "a spell", and the first thing that came to mind was the words of the Killing Curse]]. He later admitted that he hadn't realised ''which'' spell he'd been wording until after filming was completed.
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