History YMMV / GoldenSunDarkDawn

27th Nov '16 10:31:34 PM 43110
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* CompleteMonster: Though ''VideoGame/GoldenSun'' has a villainous roster comprised by mostly [[AntiVillain villains with redeeming qualities]], this cannot be said for ''Dark Dawn's'' [[BigBadDuumvirate Blados and Chalis]]. Agents of the military country Tuaparang, Blados starts by [[WouldHurtAChild kidnapping a child]] and isolating him from his master, while Chalis secretly manipulates Kaocho's king from behind the scenes. The two partake in a scheme to activate the [[TheNightThatNeverEnds Grave Eclipse]], shrouding most of the continent in darkness and unleashing dark beasts on the innocent populace, leading to the death of thousands. Once at the [[FantasticNuke Apollo Lens]], Blados and Chalis waste no time in [[TheStarscream betraying]] the other BigBad, Alex, and seizing the Apollo Lens for themselves. They proceed to turn Volechek (the brother of playable character Sveta) into a horrific beast and attempt to use him to fire the Apollo Lens on their own allies, killing Volechek in the process. Both are nasty in their own right, with {{Bl|oodKnight}}ados doing it [[ForTheEvulz for fun]], and Chalis seeking [[ItsAllAboutMe more personal motives]], up to [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder betraying her own partner]]. Cunning, manipulative, and seeing the deaths of thousands as a mere side-effect of the plan, Blados and Chalis are two of the worst villains ''Golden Sun'' has.

to:

* CompleteMonster: Though ''VideoGame/GoldenSun'' has a villainous roster comprised by mostly [[AntiVillain villains with redeeming qualities]], this cannot be said for ''Dark Dawn's'' [[BigBadDuumvirate Blados and Chalis]].Chalis. Agents of the military country Tuaparang, Blados starts by [[WouldHurtAChild kidnapping a child]] and isolating him from his master, while Chalis secretly manipulates Kaocho's king from behind the scenes. The two partake in a scheme to activate the [[TheNightThatNeverEnds Grave Eclipse]], shrouding most of the continent in darkness and unleashing dark beasts on the innocent populace, leading to the death of thousands. Once at the [[FantasticNuke Apollo Lens]], Blados and Chalis waste no time in [[TheStarscream betraying]] the other BigBad, Alex, and seizing the Apollo Lens for themselves. They proceed to turn Volechek (the brother of playable character Sveta) into a horrific beast and attempt to use him to fire the Apollo Lens on their own allies, killing Volechek in the process. Both are nasty in their own right, with {{Bl|oodKnight}}ados doing it [[ForTheEvulz for fun]], and Chalis seeking [[ItsAllAboutMe more personal motives]], up to [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder betraying her own partner]]. Cunning, manipulative, and seeing the deaths of thousands as a mere side-effect of the plan, Blados and Chalis are two of the worst villains ''Golden Sun'' has.
17th Nov '16 1:45:00 AM moultingphoenix
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** Any of the damage reducing djinn are game breakers, even in the original Golden Sun duology, but they're more notable here - purely because you don't have to wait for most of the game to get them! Chasm can be found in the [[spoiler: Belinsk Ruins]], which while it is near the end of the second third of the game, it completely trivializes anything past that, due to its effect. Chasm reduces all damage to the party by 90%, and will always go first in the battle unless another priority move is used. This doesn't seem too bad, until you realize that there are two other djinn, Bark & Shell which reduce damage by 50% and 60% respectively. You can remove all remaining difficulty from the game by having one character use Chasm on the first turn, then set it on the second, with another character using Shell/Bark on the second turn. You can then repeat this for the whole fight,[[ItsEasySoItSucks which predictably turns the game into a joke]].

to:

** Any of the damage reducing djinn are game breakers, even in the original Golden Sun duology, but they're more notable here - purely because you don't have to wait for most of the game to get them! them. Chasm can be found in the [[spoiler: Belinsk Ruins]], which while it is near the end of the second third of the game, it completely trivializes anything past that, due to its effect. Chasm reduces all damage to the party by 90%, and will always go first in the battle unless another priority move is used. This doesn't seem too bad, until you realize that there are two other djinn, Bark & Shell which reduce damage by 50% and 60% respectively. You can remove all remaining difficulty from the game by having one character use Chasm on the first turn, then set it on the second, with another character using Shell/Bark on the second turn. You can then repeat this for the whole fight,[[ItsEasySoItSucks fight, [[ItsEasySoItSucks which predictably turns the game into a joke]].
17th Nov '16 1:44:13 AM moultingphoenix
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Added DiffLines:

** Any of the damage reducing djinn are game breakers, even in the original Golden Sun duology, but they're more notable here - purely because you don't have to wait for most of the game to get them! Chasm can be found in the [[spoiler: Belinsk Ruins]], which while it is near the end of the second third of the game, it completely trivializes anything past that, due to its effect. Chasm reduces all damage to the party by 90%, and will always go first in the battle unless another priority move is used. This doesn't seem too bad, until you realize that there are two other djinn, Bark & Shell which reduce damage by 50% and 60% respectively. You can remove all remaining difficulty from the game by having one character use Chasm on the first turn, then set it on the second, with another character using Shell/Bark on the second turn. You can then repeat this for the whole fight,[[ItsEasySoItSucks which predictably turns the game into a joke]].
21st Oct '16 11:26:26 PM Hyze
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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: Poor Himi. She joins as an EleventhHourRanger at a point in the game where she can only really participate in the bonus dungeons and the final boss, so there isn't much main plot left for her to have a part in by the time she joins up. Despite being the daughter of two characters from the previous game who already didn't get much screentime, Himi's only significance is to act as a PlotCoupon to help get the group where they need to go. She also barely has enough lines in the game to fill a single page. Despite having an interesting class design as the first Venus Adept mage character, Himi is the worst of the worst when it comes to being a FlatCharacter in this game.

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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: Poor Himi. She joins as an EleventhHourRanger at a point in the game where she can only really participate in the bonus dungeons and the final boss, so there isn't much main plot left for her to have a part in by the time she joins up. Despite being the daughter of two characters from the previous game who already didn't get much screentime, Himi's only significance is to act as a PlotCoupon to help get the group where they need to go. She also barely has enough lines in the game to fill a single page. Despite having an interesting class design as the first Venus Adept mage character, Himi is the worst of the worst when it comes to being a FlatCharacter in this game.
21st Oct '16 11:25:18 PM Hyze
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Added DiffLines:

*TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: Poor Himi. She joins as an EleventhHourRanger at a point in the game where she can only really participate in the bonus dungeons and the final boss, so there isn't much main plot left for her to have a part in by the time she joins up. Despite being the daughter of two characters from the previous game who already didn't get much screentime, Himi's only significance is to act as a PlotCoupon to help get the group where they need to go. She also barely has enough lines in the game to fill a single page. Despite having an interesting class design as the first Venus Adept mage character, Himi is the worst of the worst when it comes to being a FlatCharacter in this game.
15th Aug '16 9:25:57 AM longWriter
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* AnnoyingVideoGameHelper: Isaac, when he joins your party for a while in Tanglewood, will very frequently tell you use Djinn and summons to get an advantage over your enemies. While this can be helpful for players new to the Golden Sun series, veteran players or people who are playing through the game again will find Isaac's constant nagging on what to do in battle annoying since almost every enemy at that point can be killed in a few hits with weapons or Psynergy.
** Garet's AI is known to get rather trigger-happy with the summons if you have any Djinn on standby. [[ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill Even against minor enemies.]]
** The game also has quite a few points where the characters have whole conversations about what to do next, when the answer should be patently obvious.
** There are instances where Amiti is scripted to use Insight to point out a puzzle you've already solved. Most annoying is the one to unlock the secret entrance to the Ouroboros, which is the same "empty the basin" puzzle you solved in ''every other room'' in Barai Temple, when Amiti was accompanying you as an NPC (so he's ''seen'' you solve that one already!).



* StopHelpingMe: Isaac, when he joins your party for a while in Tanglewood, will very frequently tell you use Djinn and summons to get an advantage over your enemies. While this can be helpful for players new to the Golden Sun series, veteran players or people who are playing through the game again will find Isaac's constant nagging on what to do in battle annoying since almost every enemy at that point can be killed in a few hits with weapons or Psynergy.
** Garet's AI is known to get rather trigger-happy with the summons if you have any Djinn on standby. [[ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill Even against minor enemies.]]
** The game also has quite a few points where the characters have whole conversations about what to do next, when the answer should be patently obvious.
** There are instances where Amiti is scripted to use Insight to point out a puzzle you've already solved. Most annoying is the one to unlock the secret entrance to the Ouroboros, which is the same "empty the basin" puzzle you solved in ''every other room'' in Barai Temple, when Amiti was accompanying you as an NPC (so he's ''seen'' you solve that one already!).
12th Jul '16 8:11:02 AM Chabal2
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* HilariousInHindsight: Many characters in the first game think Isaac's party are a bunch of muscle bound bearded warriors. Now they (or at least Isaac and Garet) are.

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* HilariousInHindsight: HilariousInHindsight:
**
Many characters in the first game think Isaac's party are a bunch of muscle bound bearded warriors. Now they (or at least Isaac and Garet) are.are.
** One of the Encyclopedia entries mentions a [[Series/GameOfThrones Warden of the North.]]
5th Jan '16 4:15:36 PM RegalStar
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Added DiffLines:

*** Gameplay wise it's probably meant to balance the fact that Venus-elemental gets otherwise the best stuff (the strongest unleash in the game, the best attacking djinni in the game, the second strongest summon in the game, the strongest attack psynergy by a country mile for what it's worth, the fact that GameBreaker Sveta is actually much more Venus aligned on offence with her EPA and majority of her weapon unleashes being earth-elemental).
30th Dec '15 8:53:18 PM Angeldeb82
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Being a tradition of ''Golden Sun'' this is no surprise to fans.

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Being a tradition of ''Golden Sun'' Sun'', this is no surprise to fans.



* AnticlimaxBoss:

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* AnticlimaxBoss: AntiClimaxBoss:



* BestLevelEver: Can anyone deny that the Belinsk Ruins and Apollo Sanctum are pretty amazing? Especially the astronomy-themed portion of the Belinsk Ruins where you align the planet spheres ''and slapping the Sun''.

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* BestLevelEver: [[Awesome/VideoGameLevels Awesome: Video Game Levels]]: Can anyone deny that the Belinsk Ruins and Apollo Sanctum are pretty amazing? Especially the astronomy-themed portion of the Belinsk Ruins where you align the planet spheres ''and slapping the Sun''.



** The 3D graphics for the summon sequences are either good for its time or SpecialEffectsFailure for those who thought that the 2D summons in the GBA games are better in comparison.

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** The 3D graphics for the summon sequences are either good for its time or SpecialEffectsFailure SpecialEffectFailure for those who thought that the 2D summons in the GBA games are better in comparison.



* CompleteMonster: Though ''VideoGame/GoldenSun'' has a villainous roster comprised by mostly [[AntiVillain villains with redeeming qualities]], this cannot be said for ''Dark Dawn's'' [[BigBadDuumvirate Blados and Chalis]]. Agents of the military country Tuaparang, Blados starts by [[WouldHurtAChild kidnapping a child]] and isolating him from his master, while Chalis secretly manipulates Kaocho's king from behind the scenes. The two partake in a scheme to activate the [[TheNightThatNeverEnds Grave Eclipse]], shrouding most of the continent in darkness and unleashing dark beasts on the innocent populace, leading to the death of thousands. Once at the [[FantasticNuke Apollo Lens]], Blados and Chalis waste no time in [[TheStarscream betraying]] the other BigBad, Alex, and seizing the Apollo Lens for themselves. They proceed to turn Volechek (the brother of playable character Sveta) into a horrific beast and attempt to use him to fire the Apollo Lens on their own allies, killing Volechek in the process. Both are nasty in their own right, with [[BloodKnight Blados]] doing it [[ForTheEvulz for fun]], and Chalis seeking [[ItsAllAboutMe more personal motives]], up to [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder betraying her own partner]]. Cunning, manipulative, and seeing the deaths of thousands as a mere side-effect of the plan, Blados and Chalis are two of the worst villains ''Golden Sun'' has.
* ContestedSequel: While ''GoldenSunDarkDawn'' is a definitely a decent game in its own right and their shipping fanbase is still strong, the plot railroading, ''many'' points of no return (leading to many things becoming LostForever if the player is not careful) and the [[FandomBerserkButton controversial]] [[ItsEasySoItSucks difficulty]] makes it difficult to [[ToughActToFollow live up to the second game's successes]].

to:

* CompleteMonster: Though ''VideoGame/GoldenSun'' has a villainous roster comprised by mostly [[AntiVillain villains with redeeming qualities]], this cannot be said for ''Dark Dawn's'' [[BigBadDuumvirate Blados and Chalis]]. Agents of the military country Tuaparang, Blados starts by [[WouldHurtAChild kidnapping a child]] and isolating him from his master, while Chalis secretly manipulates Kaocho's king from behind the scenes. The two partake in a scheme to activate the [[TheNightThatNeverEnds Grave Eclipse]], shrouding most of the continent in darkness and unleashing dark beasts on the innocent populace, leading to the death of thousands. Once at the [[FantasticNuke Apollo Lens]], Blados and Chalis waste no time in [[TheStarscream betraying]] the other BigBad, Alex, and seizing the Apollo Lens for themselves. They proceed to turn Volechek (the brother of playable character Sveta) into a horrific beast and attempt to use him to fire the Apollo Lens on their own allies, killing Volechek in the process. Both are nasty in their own right, with [[BloodKnight Blados]] {{Bl|oodKnight}}ados doing it [[ForTheEvulz for fun]], and Chalis seeking [[ItsAllAboutMe more personal motives]], up to [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder betraying her own partner]]. Cunning, manipulative, and seeing the deaths of thousands as a mere side-effect of the plan, Blados and Chalis are two of the worst villains ''Golden Sun'' has.
* ContestedSequel: While ''GoldenSunDarkDawn'' ''VideoGame/GoldenSunDarkDawn'' is a definitely a decent game in its own right and their shipping fanbase is still strong, the plot railroading, ''many'' points of no return (leading to many things becoming LostForever if the player is not careful) and the [[FandomBerserkButton controversial]] [[ItsEasySoItSucks difficulty]] makes it difficult to [[ToughActToFollow live up to the second game's successes]].



** Sveta is notable because her being a BareFistedMonk ActionGirl - of the ''[[ElementalTiers Wind Adept ]]'' variety, no less - is part of what created this reaction prior to the game's release. She's definitely well-liked, though she turned out a [[SpotlightStealingSquad more major character than expected]]. There was also the group of people who thought she was going to be from Garoh, and were making some [[{{Squee}} high-pitched noises]] about that.

to:

** Sveta is notable because her being a BareFistedMonk ActionGirl - of the ''[[ElementalTiers Wind Adept ]]'' Adept]]'' variety, no less - is part of what created this reaction prior to the game's release. She's definitely well-liked, though she turned out a [[SpotlightStealingSquad more major character than expected]]. There was also the group of people who thought she was going to be from Garoh, and were making some [[{{Squee}} high-pitched noises]] about that.



* FandomBerserkButton: Never, ever mention anything about ''Dark Dawn'' 's difficulty at all in front of the fans, [[BrokenBase no matter what your stance is.]]

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* FandomBerserkButton: Never, ever mention anything about ''Dark Dawn'' 's difficulty at all in front of the fans, [[BrokenBase no matter what your stance is.]] is]].



** Sveta herself is this, especially in her beast form. Since the [[ItsEasySoItSucks game's difficulty is]] [[InternetBackdraft you-know-what]] for some people and [[LightningBruiser she dishes a lot of damage]] due to the game's battle system favoring physical attackers, [[SelfImposedChallenge some players are not using her to ramp up the difficulty.]] [[ElementalTiers Not to mention she's of the Wind element, which is strong against everything in the game.]]

to:

** Sveta herself is this, especially in her beast form. Since the [[ItsEasySoItSucks game's difficulty is]] [[InternetBackdraft you-know-what]] for some people and [[LightningBruiser she dishes a lot of damage]] due to the game's battle system favoring physical attackers, [[SelfImposedChallenge some players are not using her to ramp up the difficulty.]] difficulty]]. [[ElementalTiers Not to mention she's of the Wind element, which is strong against everything in the game.]]



** Isaac's ''[[BadassBeard beard]]''.
** Kraden's badass status has apparently [[AscendedMeme leaked into canon]], according to some characters. Rief and Karis remark that if Kraden has to get somewhere, he will make it there, [[TheDeterminator no matter what is in his way]]. Considering the RandomEncounters and puzzles/traps in the game franchise...

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** Isaac's ''[[BadassBeard beard]]''.
''{{b|adassBeard}}eard''.
** Kraden's badass status has apparently [[AscendedMeme leaked into canon]], according to some characters. Rief and Karis remark that if Kraden has to get somewhere, he will make it there, [[TheDeterminator [[{{Determinator}} no matter what is in his way]]. Considering the RandomEncounters and puzzles/traps in the game franchise...



* MoralEventHorizon: Blados and Chalis soared right over it when they [[spoiler:orchestrate the activation of Eclipse Tower, starting a Grave Eclipse that would lead to ''thousands'' of innocent people's deaths.]] And even in the fickle fandom of ''VideoGame/GoldenSun'', it doesn't look like there's anybody ready to forgive them for it anytime soon (being ObviouslyEvil probably helps, though).

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: Blados and Chalis soared right over it when they [[spoiler:orchestrate the activation of Eclipse Tower, starting a Grave Eclipse that would lead to ''thousands'' of innocent people's deaths.]] deaths]]. And even in the fickle fandom of ''VideoGame/GoldenSun'', it doesn't look like there's anybody ready to forgive them for it anytime soon (being ObviouslyEvil probably helps, though).



** And the music in a certain way doesn't help either. [[spoiler:In the affected parts by the Grave Eclipse]] in the overworld, the music is very somber, as if a monster would attack to you in any moment (the only part that has a different music is [[spoiler:when you walk across the Endless Wall]]), the battle music indicates that you're fighting with evil monsters that appears from the nothing (but it's an [[CrowningMusicOfAwesome awesome track]], by the way), and even worse, the music used in [[spoiler:Kaocho]] is really dark and depressing ([[spoiler:the karma by their actions really affected them]]), and all that complemented by the things previously mentioned. The only possible exception is the music used in the affected cities ([[spoiler:other than Kaocho]]), which evokes a sad feeling instead. Creator/MotoiSakuraba really showed his musical abilities there.

to:

** And the music in a certain way doesn't help either. [[spoiler:In the affected parts by the Grave Eclipse]] in the overworld, the music is very somber, as if a monster would attack to you in any moment (the only part that has a different music is [[spoiler:when you walk across the Endless Wall]]), the battle music indicates that you're fighting with evil monsters that appears from the nothing (but it's an [[CrowningMusicOfAwesome [[SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic awesome track]], by the way), and even worse, the music used in [[spoiler:Kaocho]] is really dark and depressing ([[spoiler:the karma by their actions really affected them]]), and all that complemented by the things previously mentioned. The only possible exception is the music used in the affected cities ([[spoiler:other than Kaocho]]), which evokes a sad feeling instead. Creator/MotoiSakuraba really showed his musical abilities there.



** Garet's AI is known to get rather trigger-happy with the summons if you have any Djinn on standby. [[NoKillLikeOverkill Even against minor enemies]].

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** Garet's AI is known to get rather trigger-happy with the summons if you have any Djinn on standby. [[NoKillLikeOverkill [[ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill Even against minor enemies]].enemies.]]



* TheUnfavorite:

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* TheUnfavorite: TheUnfavourite:



* VisualEffectsOfAwesome: Much like the GBA games, ''Dark Dawn'' goes all out with battle effects, particularly the summons, which are [[UpToEleven even more flashy and over-the-top]] than ever.
** Remember [[VisualEffectsOfAwesome Catastrophe]]? It looks cooler and you should [[NightmareFuel check out what's]] [[NightmareFetishist under his cape]]! [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LnrO36JSQk#t=0m21s Here ya go!]]

to:

* VisualEffectsOfAwesome: SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome: Much like the GBA games, ''Dark Dawn'' goes all out with battle effects, particularly the summons, which are [[UpToEleven even more flashy and over-the-top]] than ever.
** Remember [[VisualEffectsOfAwesome [[SuagrWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome Catastrophe]]? It looks cooler and you should [[NightmareFuel check out what's]] [[NightmareFetishist under his cape]]! [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LnrO36JSQk#t=0m21s Here ya go!]]
10th Nov '15 8:07:57 AM Anddrix
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* CrossesTheLineTwice: It is the ''perfect'' time to test out your kids' knowledge of Psynergy when your best friend's son is in danger of dying. Sure, let's drag the kids along through the deadly forest, and keep making them do all the work despite how dangerous this could get! Also who cares if you didn't actually have anything to do with breaking the glider, get out of the house and don't come back until you can fix it. Adventures build character! Lampshaded thoroughly by Garet, Karis, and Matthew himself, [[DudeNotFunny none of whom think Isaac has hit the second line yet]]... Of course, depending on your decisions, Matthew has [[LikeFatherLikeSon no qualms with it whatsoever]].

to:

* CrossesTheLineTwice: It is the ''perfect'' time to test out your kids' knowledge of Psynergy when your best friend's son is in danger of dying. Sure, let's drag the kids along through the deadly forest, and keep making them do all the work despite how dangerous this could get! Also who cares if you didn't actually have anything to do with breaking the glider, get out of the house and don't come back until you can fix it. Adventures build character! Lampshaded thoroughly by Garet, Karis, and Matthew himself, [[DudeNotFunny none of whom think Isaac has hit the second line yet]]...yet... Of course, depending on your decisions, Matthew has [[LikeFatherLikeSon no qualms with it whatsoever]].
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