History YMMV / AlienCovenant

14th Sep '17 11:54:38 AM slvstrChung
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* EightDeadlyWords: The CharacterDevelopment -- or, rather, total lack thereof -- has been criticized, even by the standards of the horror genre. When the film ''opens'' with a RedShirt being StuffedInTheFridge, it's not off to a good start. (Even worse, being a RareMaleExample actually ''deflates'' the impact because of "MenAreTheExpendableGender".)
10th Sep '17 8:30:13 AM Cieloazul
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* AudienceAlienatingPremise: As noted in several reviews, ''Covenant'' has the same problem as ''Prometheus'', namely being simply not what everybody wanted to see regardless of how well executed it was. At the time, detractors accused the latter of letting the franchise stray into intellectual and derivative terrains instead of focusing on the beloved creature butchering people, which moved Ridley Scott to abandon the original plans of the sequel in order to satisfy them with a more classic, horror-oriented premise. However, given that ''Prometheus'' eventually gained its own fans who ''did'' want to follow Elizabeth Shaw's adventures in the Engineer world, this decision ended up falling on its face anyways for many people, with Scott being ultimately accused of shameless PanderingToTheBase (see below) and little care for his own works. It is safe to say that, after the hype of ''Prometheus'' was gone and its new take on the franchise was met with criticism, it was practically impossible for this film to succeed.

to:

* AudienceAlienatingPremise: As noted in several reviews, ''Covenant'' has the same problem as ''Prometheus'', namely being simply not what everybody wanted to see regardless of how well executed it was. At the time, detractors accused the latter of letting the franchise stray into intellectual and derivative terrains instead of focusing on the beloved creature butchering people, which moved Ridley Scott to abandon the original plans of the sequel in order to satisfy them with a more classic, horror-oriented premise. However, given that ''Prometheus'' eventually gained its own fans who ''did'' want to follow Elizabeth Shaw's adventures in the Engineer world, this decision ended up falling on its face anyways for many people, with Scott being ultimately accused of shameless PanderingToTheBase (see below) and little care for his own works. Even worse, ''Covenant'' being a sequel to ''Prometheus'' meant it could not get rid completely of its storyline and baggage, making sure that the result of departing away from its original direction would mark its return to the horror flick genre with aborted arcs and abrupt changes in tone. It is safe to say that, after the hype of ''Prometheus'' was gone and its new take on the franchise was met with criticism, it was practically impossible for this film the sequel to succeed.



* PanderingToTheBase: One of the perceived conceptual faults of the film, which was noted by both the people who wanted to return to the simplistic roots of ''Alien'' and those who preferred an answer of the mythological questions opened by ''Prometheus'', was how ''Covenant'' tried to smash both gimmicks together in an attempt to please all the sides of the fandom. This was pretty much confirmed after it was known that Scott had altered his original plans from the franchise after the divisive reception of ''Prometheus'' and that the script of ''Covenant'' had been massively rewritten several times.
* PlotHole:
** Given that this film is established to take place only 18 years prior to the original ''Film/{{Alien}}'', there's a fairly large one. When exactly does the Space Jockey take a bomber filled with Xenomorph eggs to LV426? Where is he supposed to come from now that the film has established that [[spoiler: David kills every Engineer on the planet immediately after he and Shaw arrive, and he hasn't even produced the final form of the Xenomorph yet?]] Ridley Scott has addressed this issue in interviews regarding his plan for the next film, [[spoiler:stating that Engineers who were off-world would go after David seeking revenge for the destruction of their homeworld.]]
** Don't forget how the Engineer corpse in the ship in ''Film/{{Alien}}'' was actually fossilized. It's easier to assume that David had simply replicated older Engineer work because otherwise the movies don't make sense.
** The novelization, which was based on an earlier draft of the script, had David's lab contain several "Protomorph" specimens as well as an Engineer-produced Ovomorph, and explicitly stated that David was replicating the work of the Engineers. However, Ridley Scott changed his mind late in development and altered those scenes in the film to make David the sole creator of the Xenomorph.

to:

* PanderingToTheBase: One of the perceived conceptual faults of the film, which was noted by both the people who wanted to return to the simplistic roots of ''Alien'' and those who preferred an answer of the mythological questions opened by ''Prometheus'', was how ''Covenant'' tried to smash both gimmicks together a gimmick on the other in an attempt to please all the sides of the fandom. This was pretty much confirmed after it was known that Scott had altered his original plans from the franchise after the divisive reception of ''Prometheus'' and that the script of ''Covenant'' had been massively rewritten several times.
* PlotHole:
**
PlotHole: Given that this film is established to take place only 18 years prior to the original ''Film/{{Alien}}'', there's a fairly large one. When exactly does the Space Jockey take a bomber filled with Xenomorph eggs to LV426? Where is he supposed to come from now that the film has established that [[spoiler: David [[spoiler:David kills every Engineer on the planet immediately after he and Shaw arrive, and he hasn't even produced is the final form sole creator of the Xenomorph yet?]] Xenomorphs?]] Ridley Scott has addressed this issue in interviews regarding his plan for the next film, [[spoiler:stating stating that Engineers [[spoiler:Engineers who were off-world would go after David seeking revenge for the destruction of their homeworld.]]
** Don't forget how
homeworld,]] but it doesn't easily fix the fact that the Engineer corpse in the ship in ''Film/{{Alien}}'' ''Alien'' was actually fossilized. It's easier to assume that David had simply replicated older Engineer work because otherwise the movies don't make sense.
** The novelization, which was based on an earlier draft of the script, had David's lab contain several "Protomorph" specimens as well as an Engineer-produced Ovomorph,
fossilized and explicitly stated that David was replicating the work of the Engineers. However, Ridley Scott changed his mind late in development and altered those scenes in the film seemed to make David the sole creator of the Xenomorph.have been there for millennia.



*** ''Alien'' fans who didn't much care for ''Prometheus'' can feel this film is undermined by [[spoiler:David's AGodAmI experimentation and heavy-handed insertion into the mythos and creation of the Xenomorph species]].

to:

*** ''Alien'' fans who didn't much care for ''Prometheus'' can feel this film is undermined by [[spoiler:David's AGodAmI experimentation and heavy-handed insertion into the mythos and creation of the Xenomorph species]]. The novelization, which was based on an earlier draft of the script, had David's lab contain several "Protomorph" specimens as well as an Engineer-produced Ovomorph and explicitly stated that [[spoiler:David was replicating the work of the Engineers, not creating it,]] which many feel should have been the approach taken for the film.



** The Neomorphs have a very promising premise. The fact that they grow from pods that once broken can zero in on people to infect. Paranoia fuel could have ran rampant among the crew in trying to figure out how they get infected. Instead about 2/3s through the film the Neomorph threat never comes back to focus back to the Xenomorphs.

to:

** The Neomorphs have a very promising premise. The fact that they grow from pods that once broken can zero in on people to infect. Paranoia fuel could have ran rampant among the crew in trying to figure out how they get infected. Instead However, about 2/3s two thirds through the film the Neomorph threat never comes back to focus back to the Xenomorphs.Xenomorphs. Even worse, as the storyline has moved away from Paradise and seemingly [[spoiler:David]] didn't bring any mutagen with him, it's improbable Neomorphs can ever return to the franchise.
10th Sep '17 8:11:14 AM Cieloazul
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* AudienceAlienatingPremise: As noted in many reviews, ''Covenant'' has the same problem as ''Prometheus'', namely being simply not what most long time fans of the franchise wanted to see regardless of how well executed it was. Detractors accused the latter and this film of letting the franchise stray into intellectual and derivative terrains instead of focusing on the beloved creature butchering people, and often cite the now cancelled Creator/NeillBlomkamp's ''Alien 5'' as a work which would have portrayed much better this format. Even worse, given that ''Prometheus'' eventually gained its fans who ''did'' want to follow Elizabeth Shaw's adventures in the Engineer world, the decision by Ridley Scott to abandon these original plans in order to satisfy the first group ended up falling on its face by depriving the second of its own elements of interest, with Scott being ultimately accused of shameless PanderingToTheBase (see below) and little caring for his own works. It is safe to say that, after the hype of ''Prometheus'' was gone and its new take on the franchise was met with criticism, it was practically impossible for this film to succeed.

to:

* AudienceAlienatingPremise: As noted in many several reviews, ''Covenant'' has the same problem as ''Prometheus'', namely being simply not what most long time fans of the franchise everybody wanted to see regardless of how well executed it was. Detractors At the time, detractors accused the latter and this film of letting the franchise stray into intellectual and derivative terrains instead of focusing on the beloved creature butchering people, and often cite the now cancelled Creator/NeillBlomkamp's ''Alien 5'' as a work which would have portrayed much better this format. Even worse, moved Ridley Scott to abandon the original plans of the sequel in order to satisfy them with a more classic, horror-oriented premise. However, given that ''Prometheus'' eventually gained its own fans who ''did'' want to follow Elizabeth Shaw's adventures in the Engineer world, the this decision by Ridley Scott to abandon these original plans in order to satisfy the first group ended up falling on its face by depriving the second of its own elements of interest, anyways for many people, with Scott being ultimately accused of shameless PanderingToTheBase (see below) and little caring care for his own works. It is safe to say that, after the hype of ''Prometheus'' was gone and its new take on the franchise was met with criticism, it was practically impossible for this film to succeed.



* ContestedSequel: While the movie still has its detractors (some citing the same problems that they had with ''Prometheus'' popping up in the film and others expressing disdain for the movie for other reasons), the majority of ''Alien'' fans that weren't fond of ''Prometheus'' consider it [[SurprisinglyImprovedSequel an improvement]]. Conversely, fans of ''Prometheus'' are [[BrokenBase split on the quality of this movie]], but many of them agree that it's a better ''Alien'' movie than ''Alien 3'' or ''Alien: Resurrection''.

to:

* ContestedSequel: While the movie still has its detractors (some citing the same problems that they had with ''Prometheus'' popping up in the film and others expressing disdain for the movie for other reasons), the majority of ''Alien'' fans that weren't fond of ''Prometheus'' consider it [[SurprisinglyImprovedSequel an improvement]]. Conversely, fans of ''Prometheus'' are [[BrokenBase split on the quality of this movie]], but although many of them agree that it's a better ''Alien'' movie than ''Alien 3'' or ''Alien: Resurrection''.



* ClicheStorm: The film uses almost all possible religious allusions in science fiction, especially the theory that our Creators are a developed alien race that has perfected genetically engineered technology and influenced the culture and technology of most ancient civilizations.



* {{Misblamed}}: A lot of people, including Film Brain of WebVideo/BadMovieBeatdown and Reelz Rejects, were quick to blame Creator/RidleyScott and this film as the reason Creator/NeillBlomkamp's proposed ''Alien 5'' was canceled. However, Scott stated in a few interviews that it was actually Fox who canned the film. In fact, Scott expressed interest in producing Blomkamp's film.

to:

* {{Misblamed}}: A lot of people, including Film Brain of WebVideo/BadMovieBeatdown and Reelz Rejects, were quick to blame Creator/RidleyScott and this film as the reason Creator/NeillBlomkamp's proposed ''Alien 5'' was canceled. cancelled, sometimes pointing out the aggravation that this film would have probably portrayed much more the essence of the franchise than the more derivative ''Covenant''. However, Scott stated in a few interviews that it was actually Fox who canned the film. In fact, Scott expressed interest in producing Blomkamp's film.film and that he had been in fact interested in producing it.
9th Sep '17 10:22:43 AM KizunaTallis
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* AngstWhatAngst: [[spoiler:In the third act the survivors seem unusually chipper, relaxed and good humoured for a handful of crew who have just lost family and friends to a tragic accident, followed by an extremely traumatic encounter with alien monsters and a genocidal android. This really stands out when Tennessee and Daniels are casually joking with one another, despite both having just lost their ''spouses'' along with several friends, only for two more to be killed when it turns out another Xenomorph is onboard ''while they were having sex in the shower;'' despite, again, just losing several friends to horrific events.]]

to:

* AngstWhatAngst: [[spoiler:In the third act act, the survivors seem unusually chipper, relaxed and good humoured for a handful of crew who have just lost family and friends to a tragic accident, followed by an extremely traumatic encounter with alien monsters and a genocidal android. This really stands out when Tennessee and Daniels are casually joking with one another, despite both having just lost their ''spouses'' along with several friends, only for two more to be killed when it turns out another Xenomorph is onboard ''while they were having sex in the shower;'' despite, again, just losing several friends to horrific events.]]



** Is it a worthy attempt to make the CultClassic series more intelligent and interesting, or just an awkward attempt to turn it into an extremely pretentious authorial movie? Should Ridley Scott transfer the continuation of the series to other people, or is he coping enough with it within as part of his later career as a director?
** If the massive IdiotBall in the story was recognized by almost all the fans and the question was only how much it harms the film, then the incredibly heavy and straightforward religious symbolism of the film caused much more serious controversy, where people argued about whether this work is a very clever and profound philosophy about the nature of "God" and the destiny of mankind, or that this film is merely an annoying mediocre film in its pretentiousness, with the same FauxSymbolism issues as ''Film/Matrix''.

to:

** Is it ''Covenant'' a worthy attempt to make the CultClassic series more intelligent and interesting, or just an awkward attempt to turn it into an extremely pretentious authorial movie? Should Ridley Scott transfer the continuation of the series to other people, or is he coping enough with it within as part of his later career as a director?
** If the massive IdiotBall in the story was recognized by almost all the fans and the question was only how much it harms the film, then the incredibly heavy and straightforward religious symbolism of the film caused much more serious controversy, where people argued about whether this work is a very clever and profound philosophy about the nature of "God" and the destiny of mankind, or that this film is merely an annoying mediocre film in its pretentiousness, with the same FauxSymbolism issues as ''Film/Matrix''.''Film/TheMatrix''.



* FauxSymbolism: Many people complained that the film abused so much as possible the most obvious religious symbolism, that it can not be seriously watched because of excessive pretentiousness and attempts to look deeper than it really is. This also caused a large BrokenBase due to the fact that the fans began to argue about whether or not the whole religious philosophy really needed the film.
* FranchiseOriginalSin: As already mentioned, the original series also suffers very badly because of IdiotBall and other common mistakes in horror films, even in everyone's favorite first two films. However, if at that time people could still turn a blind eye to it or ignore it, as this films did not try to seem deep or intelligent, in the case of Prometheus and the Covenant it turned into a major problem that can not be ignored.

to:

* FauxSymbolism: Many people complained that the film abused so much as possible the most obvious religious symbolism, symbolism so much that it can not be seriously watched because of the excessive pretentiousness and attempts to look deeper than it really is. This also caused a large BrokenBase due to the fact that the fans began to argue about whether or not the whole religious philosophy was really needed the film.
* FranchiseOriginalSin: As already mentioned, the original series also suffers very badly because of the IdiotBall and other common mistakes in horror films, even in everyone's favorite first two films. However, if at that time people could still turn a blind eye to it or ignore it, as this films did not try to seem deep or intelligent, in the case of Prometheus and the Covenant it turned into a major problem that can not be ignored.



** HoYay between the two Fasbenders became one of the most famous and parodied scenes of the film, after many people discussed how much she was narmy because of her awkward homoerotic and pseudo IncestSubtext atmosphere.

to:

** The HoYay between Walter and David (played [[ActingForTwo by the two Fasbenders same actor]]) became one of the most famous and parodied scenes of the film, after many people discussed how much she was narmy because of her awkward homoerotic and pseudo IncestSubtext atmosphere.film.
4th Sep '17 3:34:49 PM LittleBuster
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Is it a worthy attempt to make the CultClassic series more intelligent and interesting, or just an awkward attempt to turn it into an extremely pretentious authorial movie? Should Stone transfer the continuation of the series to other people, or is he coping enough with it within as part of his later career as a director?

to:

** Is it a worthy attempt to make the CultClassic series more intelligent and interesting, or just an awkward attempt to turn it into an extremely pretentious authorial movie? Should Stone Ridley Scott transfer the continuation of the series to other people, or is he coping enough with it within as part of his later career as a director?
4th Sep '17 1:12:25 PM LittleBuster
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* FranchiseOriginalSin: As already mentioned, the original series also suffers very badly because of IdiotBall and other common mistakes in horror films, even in everyone's favorite first two films. However, if at that time people could still turn a blind eye to it or ignore it, as this films did not try to seem deep or intelligent, in the case of Prometheus and the Covenant it turned into a major problem that can not be ignored.
4th Sep '17 12:58:00 PM LittleBuster
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* BrokenBase:
** Is it a worthy attempt to make the CultClassic series more intelligent and interesting, or just an awkward attempt to turn it into an extremely pretentious authorial movie? Should Stone transfer the continuation of the series to other people, or is he coping enough with it within as part of his later career as a director?
** If the massive IdiotBall in the story was recognized by almost all the fans and the question was only how much it harms the film, then the incredibly heavy and straightforward religious symbolism of the film caused much more serious controversy, where people argued about whether this work is a very clever and profound philosophy about the nature of "God" and the destiny of mankind, or that this film is merely an annoying mediocre film in its pretentiousness, with the same FauxSymbolism issues as ''Film/Matrix''.


Added DiffLines:

* ClicheStorm: The film uses almost all possible religious allusions in science fiction, especially the theory that our Creators are a developed alien race that has perfected genetically engineered technology and influenced the culture and technology of most ancient civilizations.


Added DiffLines:

* FauxSymbolism: Many people complained that the film abused so much as possible the most obvious religious symbolism, that it can not be seriously watched because of excessive pretentiousness and attempts to look deeper than it really is. This also caused a large BrokenBase due to the fact that the fans began to argue about whether or not the whole religious philosophy really needed the film.


Added DiffLines:

** HoYay between the two Fasbenders became one of the most famous and parodied scenes of the film, after many people discussed how much she was narmy because of her awkward homoerotic and pseudo IncestSubtext atmosphere.


Added DiffLines:

* MisaimedFandom: The film received a lot of criticism due to the fact that many fans mistakenly perceived it not as a prequel to the series and the history of the appearance of aliens as a race, but a sequel-restart that changes the traditional forms of life of these monsters.
31st Aug '17 6:46:23 PM MarqFJA
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Given that this film is established to take place only 18 years prior to the original ''Film/Alien'', there's a fairly large one. When exactly does the Space Jockey take a bomber filled with Xenomorph eggs to LV426? Where is he supposed to come from now that the film has established that [[spoiler: David kills every Engineer on the planet immediately after he and Shaw arrive, and he hasn't even produced the final form of the Xenomorph yet?]] Ridley Scott has addressed this issue in interviews regarding his plan for the next film, [[spoiler:stating that Engineers who were off-world would go after David seeking revenge for the destruction of their homeworld.]]
** Don't forget how the Engineer corpse in the ship in ''Film/Alien'' was actually fossilized. It's easier to assume that David had simply replicated older Engineer work because otherwise the movies don't make sense.

to:

** Given that this film is established to take place only 18 years prior to the original ''Film/Alien'', ''Film/{{Alien}}'', there's a fairly large one. When exactly does the Space Jockey take a bomber filled with Xenomorph eggs to LV426? Where is he supposed to come from now that the film has established that [[spoiler: David kills every Engineer on the planet immediately after he and Shaw arrive, and he hasn't even produced the final form of the Xenomorph yet?]] Ridley Scott has addressed this issue in interviews regarding his plan for the next film, [[spoiler:stating that Engineers who were off-world would go after David seeking revenge for the destruction of their homeworld.]]
** Don't forget how the Engineer corpse in the ship in ''Film/Alien'' ''Film/{{Alien}}'' was actually fossilized. It's easier to assume that David had simply replicated older Engineer work because otherwise the movies don't make sense.
31st Aug '17 2:00:53 PM Malady
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** While still very scary, the Xenomorphs don't look as real as previous versions and move more glitchy. It seems like the filmmakers were trying to emulate the movement of a man in a suit as the creature was previously portrayed, but it doesn't translate well to CG. The topic goes to the extent that some people have pointed to the traditionally reviled ''AlienVsPredator'' films as an example of much more realistic and natural Xenomorphs.

to:

** While still very scary, the Xenomorphs don't look as real as previous versions and move more glitchy. It seems like the filmmakers were trying to emulate the movement of a man in a suit as the creature was previously portrayed, but it doesn't translate well to CG. The topic goes to the extent that some people have pointed to the traditionally reviled ''AlienVsPredator'' ''Franchise/AlienVsPredator'' films as an example of much more realistic and natural Xenomorphs.
26th Aug '17 1:38:11 PM RagingHigher
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* AudienceAlienatingPremise: As noted in many reviews, ''Covenant'' has the same problem as ''Prometheus'', namely being simply not what most long time fans of the franchise wanted to see, regardless of how well executed it was. Detractors accused the latter and now this film of letting the franchise stray into intellectual and derivative terrains, instead of focusing on the beloved creature butchering people, and often cite the now cancelled Creator/NeillBlomkamp's ''Alien 5'' as a work which would have portrayed much better this format. Even worse, given that ''Prometheus'' eventually gained its fans who ''did'' want to follow Elizabeth Shaw's adventures in the Engineer world, the decision by Ridley Scott to abandon his original plans for the sequel in order to satisfy the first group ended up falling on its face by depriving the second of its own elements of interest, with Scott being ultimately accused of shameless PanderingToTheBase (see below) and little care for his own works. It is safe to say that, after the hype of ''Prometheus'' was gone and its new take on the franchise was met with criticism, it was practically impossible for this film to succeed.

to:

* AudienceAlienatingPremise: As noted in many reviews, ''Covenant'' has the same problem as ''Prometheus'', namely being simply not what most long time fans of the franchise wanted to see, see regardless of how well executed it was. Detractors accused the latter and now this film of letting the franchise stray into intellectual and derivative terrains, terrains instead of focusing on the beloved creature butchering people, and often cite the now cancelled Creator/NeillBlomkamp's ''Alien 5'' as a work which would have portrayed much better this format. Even worse, given that ''Prometheus'' eventually gained its fans who ''did'' want to follow Elizabeth Shaw's adventures in the Engineer world, the decision by Ridley Scott to abandon his these original plans for the sequel in order to satisfy the first group ended up falling on its face by depriving the second of its own elements of interest, with Scott being ultimately accused of shameless PanderingToTheBase (see below) and little care caring for his own works. It is safe to say that, after the hype of ''Prometheus'' was gone and its new take on the franchise was met with criticism, it was practically impossible for this film to succeed.



* CriticalDissonance: Despite the mixed to negative fan reactions, ''Covenant'' got a strong 71% in Web/RottenTomatoes and most professional critics were very positive in their reviews. In other words, the same reception as ''Film/{{Prometheus}}'' in its day.

to:

* CriticalDissonance: Despite the mixed to negative fan reactions, ''Covenant'' got a strong 71% in Web/RottenTomatoes and most professional critics were very positive in their reviews. In other words, the same reception as ''Film/{{Prometheus}}'' got in its day.



* NarmCharm: The idea of David coming up with teaching Walter to play flute in their meeting is both ridiculous and out of place, but there's something so strangely human in the scene and Michael Fassbender's performance is so heartfelt (summed to the VisualEffectsOfAwesome which allows him to play both roles) that the part ends up being instead one of the highest points of the movie's philosophic baggage.

to:

* NarmCharm: The idea of David coming up with teaching Walter to play flute in their meeting is both ridiculous and out of place, but there's something so strangely human in the scene and Michael Fassbender's performance is so heartfelt (summed to the VisualEffectsOfAwesome which allows allow him to play both roles) that the part ends up being instead one of the highest points of the movie's philosophic baggage.



** While still very scary, the Xenomorphs don't look as real as previous versions and move more glitchy. It seems like the filmmakers were trying to emulate the movement of a man in a suit as the creature was previously portrayed, but it doesn't translate well to CG. The topic goes to the extent that some people have pointed to the reviled ''AlienVsPredator'' films as an example of much more realistic and natural Xenomorphs on screen.

to:

** While still very scary, the Xenomorphs don't look as real as previous versions and move more glitchy. It seems like the filmmakers were trying to emulate the movement of a man in a suit as the creature was previously portrayed, but it doesn't translate well to CG. The topic goes to the extent that some people have pointed to the traditionally reviled ''AlienVsPredator'' films as an example of much more realistic and natural Xenomorphs on screen.Xenomorphs.
This list shows the last 10 events of 187. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.AlienCovenant