History WMG / Looper

[[WMG: Cid is not [[spoiler: the Rainmaker.]]]]
I mean, the guy who gave Future!Joe the code might have been wrong. You can't take any information for granted. And as for [[spoiler: Future!Joe's disappearance after Present!Joe kills himself]], isn't it fundamentally because his past self is [[spoiler: dead rather than having anything to do the Rainmaker's (non-)existence]]? After all, [[MindScrew the story]] [[UpToEleven would've been more complicated]] had the [[spoiler: Rainmaker been Cid. If s/he really is Cid, then [[TimeCrash Future!Loopers wouldn't have been sent back, Present!Joe wouldn't have met Future!Joe, and all this wouldn't have happened]]. Then Cid wouldn't have met both Joes and probably lived as normally as possible, resulting in him not becoming evil,]] which would make Future!Joe's return to the present timeline improbable.

{{WMG: The Rainmaker is closing all the looks because remembers his mom being killed by a looper.]]

** Sarah mentions that she used to be something of a party girl in the city and knows what Loopers are, so it makes sense that they would have frequented the same few bars.

[[WMG: {{Looper}} takes place in the same universe as {{Chronicle}}.]]

The effects of time travel and telekinesis both appeared at roughly the same point in history - the 2040s. This is because time-travel has the side effect of warping certain people's minds, because of [[AppliedPhlebotinum quantum]]. Rainmaker, and possibly other people, have manipulated the TimeyWimeyBall to advance his mutation, and make him a powerful psychic. The 'trackers making murder impossible in the future' are just a cover story. In the 2070s, certain people have to be sent back in time for the effects to be generated in the 2040s. That's why Old Joe is sent back but his Chinese wife is murdered on the spot in 2074. The Loopers are a handy way of making sure that whoever is sent back doesn't talk, and their job is still pretty much as it appears in the movie. Once the Rainmaker is satisfied that the effects have been generated, he wraps up the time travel business to ensure no further interference in his rise to power. Most of the mafia story is just bullshit, although Abe did use it, and some business savvy/unrelenting violence, to carve a nice niche for himself in the 2040s.

The effects of time travel and telekinesis both appeared at roughly the same point in history - the 2040s. This is because time-travel has the side effect of warping certain people's minds, because of [[AppliedPhlebotinum quantum]]. Rainmaker, and possibly other people, have manipulated the TimeyWimeyBall to advance his mutation, and make him a powerful psychic. The 'trackers' making murder impossible are just a cover story: as several tropers have already identified, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, unless your only knowledge of the 2070s era is hearsay from returned time travellers. In the 2070s, certain people have to be sent back in time for the effects to be generated in the 2040s. That's why Old Joe is sent back but his Chinese wife is murdered in 2074. The Loopers are a handy way of making sure that whoever is sent back doesn't talk, and their job is still pretty much as it appears in the movie. Once the Rainmaker is satisfied that the effects have been generated, he wraps up the time travel business to ensure no further interference in his rise to power. Most of the mafia story is just bullshit, although Abe did use it, and some business savvy/unrelenting violence, to carve a nice niche for himself in the 2040s.

The 'trackers' making murder impossible are just a cover story: as several tropers have already identified, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, unless your only knowledge of the 2070s era is hearsay from returned time travellers. The effects of time travel and telekinesis both appeared at roughly the same point in history - the 2040s. This is because time-travel has the side effect of warping certain people's minds, because of [[AppliedPhlebotinum quantum]]. Rainmaker, and possibly other people, have manipulated the TimeyWimeyBall to advance his mutation, and make him a powerful psychic. In the 2070s, certain people have to be sent back in time for the effects to be generated in the 2040s. That's why Old Joe is sent back but his Chinese wife is murdered in 2074. The Loopers are a handy way of making sure that whoever is sent back doesn't talk, and their job is still pretty much as it appears in the movie. Once the Rainmaker is satisfied that the effects have been generated, he wraps up the time travel business to ensure no further interference in his rise to power. Most of the mafia story is just bullshit, although Abe did use it, and some business savvy/unrelenting violence, to carve a nice niche for himself in the 2040s.

[[WMG: The Rainmaker was using time travel to create the telekinesis mutation in humanity.]]
The 'trackers' are just a cover story: as several tropers have already identified, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, unless your only knowledge of the 2070s era is hearsay from returned time travellers. The effects of time travel and telekinesis both appeared at roughly the same point in history - the 2040s. This is because time-travel has the side effect of warping certain people's minds, because of [[AppliedPhlebotinum quantum]]. Rainmaker, and possibly other people, have manipulated the TimeyWimeyBall to advance his mutation, and make him a powerful psychic. In the 2070s, certain people have to be sent back in time for the effects to be generated in the 2040s. The Loopers are a handy way of making sure that whoever is sent back doesn't talk, and their job is still pretty much as it appears in the movie. Once the Rainmaker is satisfied that the effects have been generated, he wraps up the time travel business to ensure no further interference. Most of the mafia story is just bullshit, although Abe did use it, and some business savvy/unrelenting violence, to carve a nice niche for himself in the 2040s.

The 'trackers' are just a cover story: as several tropers have already identified, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, unless your only knowledge of the 2070s era is hearsay from returned time travellers. The effects of time travel and telekinesis both appeared at roughly the same point in history - the 2040s. This is because time-travel has the side effect of warping certain people's minds, because of AppliedPhlebotinum. Rainmaker, and possibly other people, have manipulated the TimeyWimeyBall to advance his mutation, and make him a powerful psychic. The mafia story is just bullshit, although Abe did use it, and some business savvy/unrelenting violence, to carve a nice niche for himself in the 2040s.

[[WMG: The Rainmaker is closing all the loops int the future...]]

...because the film's present era (2040s) will soon develop the 'tracking' technology that detects murder and dead bodies. Once that's invented, the program's no good to anyone.

** Sarah mentions that she used to be something of a party girl in the city and knows what Loopers are, so it makes sense that they would have frequented the same few bars.

Seth fully believes that women are really into his TK (despite Joe telling him otherwise); Sarah makes a point of mentioning that [[spoiler: she would use her own TK to suppress men's when they tried to hit on her, and that one of them burst a blood vessel in his eye trying to lift a quarter,]] which sounds fully in line with something someone as impetuous and frantic as Seth would do. But more importantly, [[spoiler: it's assumed that Sarah's TK is unusual to find, especially in a woman. If she slept with someone else with TK, it would definitely explain why Cid is so super-powered: he got TK from both parents]]

** She lied about his age. Cid is a toddler/younger child. Hence the toddler toys and thick crowns.

Seth fully believes that women are really into his TK (despite Joe telling him otherwise); Sarah makes a point of mentioning that [[spoiler: she would use her own TK to suppress men's when they tried to hit on her, and that one of them burst a blood vessel in his eye trying to lift a quarter,]] which sounds fully in line with something someone as impetuous and frantic as Seth would do. But more importantly, [[spoiler: it's assumed that Sarah's TK is unusual to find, especially in a woman. If she slept with someone else with TK, it would definitely explain why Cid is so super-powered.]]

4) You may notice the funniest part of this: '''Loopers are completely superfluous'''. When you send someone back, they end up on a completely different timestream with absolutely no way of returning. There is no way they can affect you anymore. ''Only Abe insists that there is one timeline, and he's making money off the operation.'' The mob of the future is literally sending tons of gold and silver back in time and into essentially other dimensions for ''no reason''. Why? Because they're dumb mobsters who stole a time machine, not scientists.

3) This is why Old!Joe doesn't change in attitude towards Cid and Sara even though Young!Joe has bonded with them. Its also why Old!Joe retains memories of the last bits of his life despite the fact that Young!Joe's actions should have put him on a different life path. Old!Joe's timeline and past remains unchanged, but he has some of the memories and scars of this Young!Joe because it is history trying to resolve a paradox. You can't change the past, but the universe will attempt to resolve paradox by imposing physical and mental changes on an Old!Looper. When Young!Joe commits suicide, this doesn't erase the events of the movie. It just causes Old!Joe to die because the universe resolves the paradox by making Old!Joe superficially match what has happened to Young!Joe.

The first thing you have to understand is that Old!Joe and Young!Joe are NOT, in fact the same person. They are similar iterations of the same entity from two different timelines. Every time you travel back in time in the Looperverse, you create a different strand of time. Similar, but with minor differences. Butterfly effects, and all that.
Why do Old!Loopers accrue the damage taken on by their younger counterparts? It is, according to Rian Johnson, the universe's feeble attempts to correct paradox. Thus, when you stab the eye out of a young looper and the Old!Looper loses an eye - it's not because you've literally changed the timeline of the Old!Looper so that he's always had a missing eye - it's the universe imposing the paradox on the Old!Looper as they exist NOW in the current timeline. So Old!Seth experiences bodyparts being removed from Young!Seth, but the fridge logic of how did Old!Seth run away if he didn't have freaking legs doesn't kick in. Old!Seth DID have legs. But the timestream is attempting to resolve a paradox by removing them when Young!Seth's are removed.
This is why Old!Joe doesn't change in attitude towards Cid and Sara even though Young!Joe has bonded with them. Its also why Old!Joe retains memories of the last bits of his life despite the fact that Young!Joe's actions should have put him on a different life path. Old!Joe's timeline and past remains unchanged, but he has some of the memories and scars of this Young!Joe because it is history trying to resolve a paradox. You can't change the past, but the universe will attempt to resolve paradox by imposing physical and mental changes on an Old!Looper. When Young!Joe commits suicide, this doesn't erase the events of the movie. It just causes Old!Joe to die because the universe resolves the paradox by making Old!Joe superficially match what has happened to Young!Joe.

This is why Old!Joe doesn't change in attitude towards Cid and Sara even though Young!Joe has bonded with them. Its also while Old!Joe retains memories of the last bits of his life despite the fact that Young!Joe's actions should have put him on a different life path. Old!Joe's timeline and past remains unchanged, but he has some of the memories and scars of this Young!Joe because it is history trying to resolve a paradox. You can't change the past, but the universe will attempt to resolve paradox by imposing physical and mental changes on an Old!Looper. When Young!Joe commits suicide, this doesn't erase the events of the movie. It just causes Old!Joe to die because the universe resolves the paradox by making Old!Joe superficially match what has happened to Young!Joe.

Why do Old!Loopers accrue the damage taken on by their younger counterparts? It is, according to Rian Johnson, the universe's feeble attempts to correct paradox. Thus, when you stab the eye out of a young looper and the Old!Looper loses an eye - it's not because you've literally changed the timeline of the Old!Looper so that he's always had a missing eye - it's the universe imposing the paradox on the Old!Looper as they exist NOW in the current timeline. So Old!Seth experiences bodyparts being removed from Young!Seth, but the fridge logic of how did Old!Seth run away if he didn't have freaking legs doesn't kick in. Old!Seth DID have legs. But the timestream is attempting to resolve a paradox by removing them when Old!Seth's are removed.

The main page wonders a few times how Cid became the Rainmaker in the future if Old Joe wasn't around to kill Sarah. And it does seem like Sarah's a pretty good mother even before the Joes intervene, and it's unrealistic to think that she wouldn't eventually tell him that she's his real mother, though she'd probably wait until he was older and mature enough to handle it. But recall that Old Seth said that the Rainmaker appeared out of nowhere about 6 months ago relatively speaking, and Sarah said Cid was 10, leaving him 30 years to grow into what we can assume is Neo-Hitler. Presumably (and this is pure extrapolation) he saw that HumansAreBastards and decided to kill them all. The possibility of Cid becoming the Rainmaker is still around, but Joe's sacrifice could at least inspire him to be a bit more benevolent about it.

Abe is from the future, and we see the younger version of everyone else sent back from the future (Seth, Joe). Abe and Kid Blue have similar hairstyles, both speak with Southern accents, and the ages match up. More to the point, after Old Joe pulls Young Joe away from his apartment he calls him a "stupid little shit." That's the same thing Abe calls Kid Blue in the very next scene. And since Abe died before Kid Blue, we never get to see if he would have vanished like Old Joe. Also, why would Abe keep around a screw up (who also looked up to him) if he was some nobody? The only real evidence against this is the hammer scene, but we don't know how prosthetics and medicine are in 2074. Rian Johnson says that [[he loves the theory, and that there is a deleted scene that deals with it in some way. http://io9.com/5949973/?post=53334186]]

Abe is from the future, and we see the younger version of everyone else sent back from the future (Seth, Joe). Abe and Kid Blue have similar hairstyles, both speak with Southern accents, and the ages match up. More to the point, after Old Joe pulls Young Joe away from his apartment he calls him a "stupid little shit." That's the same thing Abe calls Kid Blue in the very next scene. And since Abe died before Kid Blue, we never get to see if he would have vanished like Old Joe. Also, why would Abe keep around a screw up (who also looked up to him) if he was some nobody? The only real evidence against this is the hammer scene, but we don't know how prosthetics and medicine are in 2074. Rian Johnson says that [[he loves the theory, and that there is a deleted scene that deals with it in some way. http://io9.com/5949973/?post=53334186]]

The alien artifact that gives the boys in ''{{Chronicle}}'' their telekinesis might not have been the only one of its kind. The three boys got such powerful telekinesis because they were so close to it, but if one was buried near a population centre, maybe limited proximity gives you just the ability to levitate quarters and such. This could also explain why Cid turned out so powerful: His father (or grandfather) may have been Matt, and apparently two TK bloodlines mixing amplifies the power.

The idea of the Rainmaker as a StableTimeLoop makes no sense. We know that Bruce Willis killed his future self, so his future self didn't go after the Rainmaker, and HE STILL BECAME THE RAINMAKER! The only even that's happened that MIGHT prevent that future is that Sarah is now aware of the possibility, and will try even harder to raise him right...but, she was already trying to raise him right, so I don't now how much difference "try harder" will make...

His mother, being a person with an actual soul, decided to love him unconditionally despite his appearence, but smartly decided to cut the latter off and dye his hair to avoid KidsAreCruel. As a result, his human-hating instincts didn't activate...[[spoiler:until Old Joe killed his mom, which caused him to suffer a FreakOut and declare revenge against the only person who truly cared for him. Hence, he became the Rainmaker.]]