History WMG / Looper

16th Mar '16 6:40:54 PM Arbron
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*** The hammer scene and others featuring the physical link between Young and Old people provide inconsistent evidence. On one hand, Abe doesn't react at all when Kid Blue's hand is broken or his leg is shot. This is further supported by the fact that Old Seth doesn't seem to feel any pain from losing his fingers; his only reaction is one of horror. But on the ''other'' hand, Old Joe clearly feels pain on both occasions Young Joe gets shot. So... who knows? The evidence points both ways due to inconsistency.

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*** The hammer scene and others featuring While I personally think Abe = Old Blue is unlikely, the movie's inconsistent depiction of the physical link between Young a person's young and Old people provide inconsistent evidence. On one hand, old self provides conflicting evidence that can go both ways. Abe doesn't react at all when to breaking Kid Blue's hand is broken (not to mention he does it without hesitation) or his leg is shot. This is further supported by the fact that bullet he receives courtesy of Old Joe. Old Seth doesn't seem to feel any pain from losing his fingers; his only reaction is one of horror. But on fingers either - just horror and grim realization. This conflicts with the ''other'' hand, fact that Old Joe very clearly feels pain on both occasions Young Joe gets shot. So... who knows? The evidence points both ways due to inconsistency.
So, is Abe's lack of reaction proof he's not Old Blue, or inconsistency on the movie's part? You decide.
16th Mar '16 6:32:36 PM Arbron
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*** The movie is inconsistent about how instantly (and in what way) damage done to you is applied to your future self. Old Joe clearly feels pain when Young Joe is shot (by Sara and later himself), but Old Seth doesn't seem to feel anything besides horror when he loses his fingers. So, while Abe doesn't react at all to breaking Kid Blue's hand (the same hand that was holding the hammer, by the way), this doesn't prove things either way.

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*** The movie is hammer scene and others featuring the physical link between Young and Old people provide inconsistent about how instantly (and in what way) damage done to you is applied to your future self. Old Joe clearly feels pain evidence. On one hand, Abe doesn't react at all when Young Joe Kid Blue's hand is shot (by Sara and later himself), but broken or his leg is shot. This is further supported by the fact that Old Seth doesn't seem to feel anything besides horror when he loses any pain from losing his fingers. So, while Abe doesn't react at all to breaking Kid Blue's hand (the same hand that was holding fingers; his only reaction is one of horror. But on the hammer, by the way), this doesn't prove things either way.
''other'' hand, Old Joe clearly feels pain on both occasions Young Joe gets shot. So... who knows? The evidence points both ways due to inconsistency.
16th Mar '16 6:15:07 PM Arbron
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** The original backstory for the Rainmaker was never meant to be a StableTimeLoop; Old Joe's actions would simply have ''made'' it that way, ensuring it happened over and over again instead of by chance. The ''original'' timeline probably involved a completely different looper shooting Sara (or Cid's unnamed aunt) for completely different reasons, and Old Joe's actions almost causing the same thing are likely an attempt by the universe to stabilize itself.
16th Mar '16 6:09:15 PM Arbron
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* This is pretty much confirmed in-universe, or at least heavily implied - he "saw his mom get shot" and "started closing loops like nothing else." These facts are most likely related, even without speculation.




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**** The movie is inconsistent about how instantly (and in what way) damage done to you is applied to your future self. Old Joe clearly feels pain when Young Joe is shot (by Sara and later himself), but Old Seth doesn't seem to feel anything besides horror when he loses his fingers. So, while Abe doesn't react at all to breaking Kid Blue's hand (the same hand that was holding the hammer, by the way), this doesn't prove things either way.



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9th Aug '15 10:14:13 AM LordAaronus
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[[WMG:Cid is a male [[Manga/ElfenLied diclonius]]]]

His mother, being a person with an actual soul, decided to love him unconditionally despite his appearence, but smartly decided to cut the latter off and dye his hair to avoid KidsAreCruel. As a result, his human-hating instincts didn't activate...[[spoiler:until Old Joe killed his mom, which caused him to suffer a FreakOut and declare revenge against the only person who truly cared for him. Hence, he became the Rainmaker.]]

to:

[[WMG:Cid [[folder:What is a male [[Manga/ElfenLied diclonius]]]]

His mother, being a person with an actual soul, decided to love him unconditionally despite his appearence, but smartly decided to cut
the latter off and dye his hair to avoid KidsAreCruel. As a result, his human-hating instincts didn't activate...[[spoiler:until Old Joe killed his mom, which caused him to suffer a FreakOut and declare revenge against the only person who truly cared for him. Hence, he became the Rainmaker.]]
Rainmaker]]



[[WMG: ''Looper'' takes place in the same universe as ''Film/{{Chronicle}}''.]]

The alien artifact that gives the boys in ''Film/{{Chronicle}}'' their telekinesis might not have been the only one of its kind. The three boys got such powerful telekinesis because they were so close to it, but if one was buried near a population centre, maybe limited proximity gives you just the ability to levitate quarters and such. This could also explain why Cid turned out so powerful: His father (or grandfather) may have been Matt, and apparently two TK bloodlines mixing amplifies the power.

[[WMG: Abe is Kid Blue from the future.]]

Abe is from the future, and we see the younger version of everyone else sent back from the future (Seth, Joe). Abe and Kid Blue have similar hairstyles, both speak with Southern accents, and the ages match up. More to the point, after Old Joe pulls Young Joe away from his apartment he calls him a "stupid little shit." That's the same thing Abe calls Kid Blue in the very next scene. And since Abe died before Kid Blue, we never get to see if he would have vanished like Old Joe. Also, why would Abe keep around a screw up (who also looked up to him) if he was some nobody? The only real evidence against this is the hammer scene, but we don't know how prosthetics and medicine are in 2074. Rian Johnson says that [[http://io9.com/5949973/?post=53334186 he loves the theory, and that there is a deleted scene that deals with it in some way.]]
** A few cut scenes show that Abe puts a hit on Kid Blue after his mess up at the diner, so I think it's safe to say that, while it's possible in the final product, it wasn't originally Johnson's intention.
*** Although if that had been kept in, it could be easily explained: Abe is sensing that the situation is growing steadily worse. He's putting the hit out as insurance; if Kid Blue does his job right and finds Joe, everything is saved and he can take a breather. If Kid Blue fucks up, he'd rather be erased from history than have to face up to the awful things that his bosses will do to him for fucking up. You think Seth had it bad? Imagining the Doc cutting bits off your younger self ''in front of you''...
**** [[spoiler:There are two deleted scenes related to this; first Kid Blue is literally being dragged out the back of the club and down an alley by another Gat Man. Kid recognizes the spot as where fuckups are taken to be executed, and escapes after killing the other Gat Man with a holdout pistol in his boot. At this point Abe is absolutely sure Kid will be taken out the back and killed, sadly debunking the idea they are the same person. Much like Old Joe, Abe would only remember if Kid managed to escape after he did it.]][[spoiler:The second deleted scene involves Kid hiding out in a police cruiser and interrogating the officer about Joe when he returns; the officer apparently knows Kid and tells him Abe has put a significant bounty on his head. Before he's even finished trying to claim he'd never turn Kid over, [[CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass Kid blows his head off]].]]



[[WMG:How the Time-Travel in Looper Works]]
I've read everything Rian Johnson has said on the plot. This is how Time Travel works in the Looper universe, and why the plot makes sense:

1)The first thing you have to understand is that Old!Joe and Young!Joe are NOT, in fact the same person. They are similar iterations of the same entity from two different timelines. Every time you travel back in time in the Looperverse, you create a different strand of time. Similar, but with minor differences. Butterfly effects, and all that.

2) Why do Old!Loopers accrue the damage taken on by their younger counterparts? It is, according to Rian Johnson, the universe's feeble attempts to correct paradox. Thus, when you stab the eye out of a young looper and the Old!Looper loses an eye - it's not because you've literally changed the timeline of the Old!Looper so that he's always had a missing eye - it's the universe imposing the paradox on the Old!Looper as they exist NOW in the current timeline. So Old!Seth experiences bodyparts being removed from Young!Seth, but the fridge logic of how did Old!Seth run away if he didn't have freaking legs doesn't kick in. Old!Seth DID have legs. But the timestream is attempting to resolve a paradox by removing them when Young!Seth's are removed.

3) This is why Old!Joe doesn't change in attitude towards Cid and Sara even though Young!Joe has bonded with them. Its also why Old!Joe retains memories of the last bits of his life despite the fact that Young!Joe's actions should have put him on a different life path. Old!Joe's timeline and past remains unchanged, but he has some of the memories and scars of this Young!Joe because it is history trying to resolve a paradox. You can't change the past, but the universe will attempt to resolve paradox by imposing physical and mental changes on an Old!Looper. When Young!Joe commits suicide, this doesn't erase the events of the movie. It just causes Old!Joe to die because the universe resolves the paradox by making Old!Joe superficially match what has happened to Young!Joe.

4) You may notice the funniest part of this: '''Loopers are completely superfluous'''. When you send someone back, they end up on a completely different timestream with absolutely no way of returning. There is no way they can affect you anymore. ''Only Abe insists that there is one timeline, and he's making money off the operation.'' The mob of the future is literally sending tons of gold and silver back in time and into essentially other dimensions for ''no reason''. Why? Because they're dumb mobsters who stole a time machine, not scientists.

* If nothing else, even if they (Joe) were in separate timelines, by traveling back and now existing in the same timeline, they, from the moment that Old!Joe first arrived, became the same person. That moment of arrival is what binds them together - up until then, they're separate.



[[WMG: The Loopers lead to the creation of the murder-detection technology that makes them necessary in the first place.]]
Joe mentions that they "aren't the most forward-thinking people," it's entirely feasible that several Loopers did a poor job of disposing of the bodies. And the future mob is sending all of their hits back in time to the loopers, there's no way that Kansas City is the only operation. Dozens, if not hundreds, of unaccounted for dead bodies, filled with buckshot, showing up all over the country, clearly shoddily attempted to be disposed of? It would make perfect sense for the government to develop technology to attempt to bring these random murders under control.



[[WMG: Cid is not [[spoiler: the Rainmaker.]]]]
I mean, the guy who gave Future!Joe the code might have been wrong. You can't take any information for granted. And as for [[spoiler: Future!Joe's disappearance after Present!Joe kills himself]], isn't it fundamentally because his past self is [[spoiler: dead rather than having anything to do the Rainmaker's (non-)existence]]? After all, [[MindScrew the story]] [[UpToEleven would've been more complicated]] had the [[spoiler: Rainmaker been Cid. If s/he really is Cid, then [[TimeCrash Future!Loopers wouldn't have been sent back, Present!Joe wouldn't have met Future!Joe, and all this wouldn't have happened]]. Then Cid wouldn't have met both Joes and probably lived as normally as possible, resulting in him not becoming evil,]] which would make Future!Joe's return to the present timeline improbable.

[[WMG: Cid is actually/also [[spoiler: the inventor of time travel.]]]]
He seemed to show hints of ChildProdigy [[spoiler: on top of the TK skills.]]



[[WMG: The "tracking technology" of the future is similar to the precogs in ''Film/MinorityReport'']]
Hence kidnapping doesn't show up, but murder does. Joe's wife is only shot by accident (they thought she was holding a gun, not a trowel), so it wasn't premeditated. They set the house on fire to throw off the authorities.
* Aha! And Minority Report happens in 2054, ten years after this film is set!
* This is now my head canon!

[[WMG: Cid IS the "Tracking technology" the crime bosses are trying to avoid.]]
His powers enable him to tell when people are killed and stop it. Time travel gets around that. This is why he's taking out the Loopers - after they're all gone he destroys the machines. He still has to send the Loopers back, because then the past would realize something's fishy.

[[WMG: The Mob keeps sending people back to the same time period.]]
Whatever the economic situation of the United States is in 2044, the odds are good it changes eventually for better or worse. For those in the future looking at history, there is a window of time where Kansas in 2044 is the perfect place to run a major criminal syndicate. The future mob doesn't necessarily have to send people back precisely 30 years, they could send them back 30 years, or 50 years or 200 years to any location on Earth.

Kansas 2044 represents a golden era where a criminal syndicate can operate in some measure of peace with enough vices to keep the Looper operation occupied and secret. It also has enough history and rule of law so the Mob knows everything that SHOULD happen in Kansas 2044 so the Loopers can move in without disrupting the timeline. By the time the economy or political climate changes to make this operation impractical, the loops are closed and another person like Abe is sent back to resume business.

[[WMG: The Rainmaker will have a younger sibling which will be good for his personality.]]
Not only did Joe help the Rainmaker keep his mother, but [[BabiesEverAfter he got Sarah pregnant]]. Having and caring for a younger sibling gives a greater desire to master his own powers, thus making him a better person.

to:

[[WMG: The "tracking technology" of the future is similar to the precogs in ''Film/MinorityReport'']]
Hence kidnapping doesn't show up, but murder does. Joe's wife is only shot by accident (they thought she was holding a gun, not a trowel), so it wasn't premeditated. They set the house on fire to throw off the authorities.
* Aha! And Minority Report happens in 2054, ten years after this film is set!
* This is now my head canon!

[[WMG: Cid IS the "Tracking technology" the crime bosses are trying to avoid.]]
His powers enable him to tell when people are killed and stop it. Time travel gets around that. This is why he's taking out the Loopers - after they're all gone he destroys the machines. He still has to send the Loopers back, because then the past would realize something's fishy.

[[WMG: The Mob keeps sending people back to the same time period.]]
Whatever the economic situation of the United States is in 2044, the odds are good it changes eventually for better or worse. For those in the future looking at history, there is a window of time where Kansas in 2044 is the perfect place to run a major criminal syndicate. The future mob doesn't necessarily have to send people back precisely 30 years, they could send them back 30 years, or 50 years or 200 years to any location on Earth.

Kansas 2044 represents a golden era where a criminal syndicate can operate in some measure of peace with enough vices to keep the Looper operation occupied and secret. It also has enough history and rule of law so the Mob knows everything that SHOULD happen in Kansas 2044 so the Loopers can move in without disrupting the timeline. By the time the economy or political climate changes to make this operation impractical, the loops are closed and another person like Abe is sent back to resume business.

[[WMG: The Rainmaker will have a younger sibling which will be good for his personality.]]
Not only did Joe help
[[WMG:Alternately, the Rainmaker keep his mother, but [[BabiesEverAfter he got Sarah pregnant]]. Having and caring for a younger sibling gives a greater desire to master his own powers, thus making him a better person.
directed attention towards Cid's birth date because he's really...]]
...Cid's real father!



[[WMG: ''Looper'' takes place in the same universe as ''Film/StarTrek''.]]
They have time travel, and they have hover bikes. They have huge cities, surrounded by farmland. The gangs controlling everything? They're the reason Earth has the Eugenics Wars. Khan Noonian Singh was, like the Rainmaker, probably another TK mutant. The TK virus was an attempt to genetically engineer a race of supermen; hence Young Joe's statement about "superheroes".

to:

[[WMG: ''Looper'' takes place in the same universe as ''Film/StarTrek''.The Rainmaker will have a younger sibling which will be good for his personality.]]
They have time travel, Not only did Joe help the Rainmaker keep his mother, but [[BabiesEverAfter he got Sarah pregnant]]. Having and they have hover bikes. They have huge cities, surrounded by farmland. The gangs controlling everything? They're the reason Earth has the Eugenics Wars. Khan Noonian Singh was, like the Rainmaker, probably another TK mutant. The TK virus was an attempt caring for a younger sibling gives a greater desire to genetically engineer master his own powers, thus making him a race of supermen; hence Young Joe's statement about "superheroes".
better person.



[[WMG:TimeTravel was PoweredByAForsakenChild]]
TimeTravel was developed and outlawed around the same time children with powerful reality warping abilities started turning, with only a few criminal syndicate types making use of it. Given the limited understanding and control they seem to have of it, it seems likely it was the result of a chance discovery of a child with the right TK abilities.

While we do briefly see an actual technological time machine in 2074, this doesn't discount the possibility of there being a small child entombed inside of it.

[[WMG: Time Travel caused the TK children]]
Due to excessive amounts of time travel back to the "present" of the film, this caused [[EldritchLocation physics to go all wonky in that particular area of time]]. Thus, children began to mutate due to exposure to radiation that shouldn't even exist on Earth. This could have also happened in several other periods of time, which could explain [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy witches, psychics, poltergeists, perhaps even gods.]]

[[WMG: ''Looper'' is the prequel to ''Film/TwelveMonkeys'']]

Old!Joe ''wasn't'' erased at the end - the old adage, energy cannot be destroyed, only transferred. He got caught in the eye of the storm, a storm of horrible changes to time that careless, criminal time travel had caused. When he returned to his own time, the damage to the history of the universe in which he came from was so awful that everyone believed it to be 1997 rather than 2070, and that humanity was destroyed by a virus rather than damages to time. Joe ended up imprisoned below ground - along with all the other criminals who messed with time. Unfortunately, the damage to time also did damage to Old!Joe as well. He was de-aged a few decades and his long-term memory fried, so that he could barely remember any old information, just snippets (e.g., his name starting with a J). The council of scientists below ground clumsily identified him as an obscure ancestor of his and sent him back in time with the knowledge that he had survived it and could do so again. Ultimately, Old!Joe did get sent back in time to die...but was killed in front of his ancestor, James Cole.




to:

[[/folder]]

[[WMG:Cid is a male [[Manga/ElfenLied diclonius]]]]

His mother, being a person with an actual soul, decided to love him unconditionally despite his appearence, but smartly decided to cut the latter off and dye his hair to avoid KidsAreCruel. As a result, his human-hating instincts didn't activate...[[spoiler:until Old Joe killed his mom, which caused him to suffer a FreakOut and declare revenge against the only person who truly cared for him. Hence, he became the Rainmaker.]]

[[WMG: ''Looper'' takes place in the same universe as ''Film/{{Chronicle}}''.]]

The alien artifact that gives the boys in ''Film/{{Chronicle}}'' their telekinesis might not have been the only one of its kind. The three boys got such powerful telekinesis because they were so close to it, but if one was buried near a population centre, maybe limited proximity gives you just the ability to levitate quarters and such. This could also explain why Cid turned out so powerful: His father (or grandfather) may have been Matt, and apparently two TK bloodlines mixing amplifies the power.

[[WMG: Abe is Kid Blue from the future.]]

Abe is from the future, and we see the younger version of everyone else sent back from the future (Seth, Joe). Abe and Kid Blue have similar hairstyles, both speak with Southern accents, and the ages match up. More to the point, after Old Joe pulls Young Joe away from his apartment he calls him a "stupid little shit." That's the same thing Abe calls Kid Blue in the very next scene. And since Abe died before Kid Blue, we never get to see if he would have vanished like Old Joe. Also, why would Abe keep around a screw up (who also looked up to him) if he was some nobody? The only real evidence against this is the hammer scene, but we don't know how prosthetics and medicine are in 2074. Rian Johnson says that [[http://io9.com/5949973/?post=53334186 he loves the theory, and that there is a deleted scene that deals with it in some way.]]
** A few cut scenes show that Abe puts a hit on Kid Blue after his mess up at the diner, so I think it's safe to say that, while it's possible in the final product, it wasn't originally Johnson's intention.
*** Although if that had been kept in, it could be easily explained: Abe is sensing that the situation is growing steadily worse. He's putting the hit out as insurance; if Kid Blue does his job right and finds Joe, everything is saved and he can take a breather. If Kid Blue fucks up, he'd rather be erased from history than have to face up to the awful things that his bosses will do to him for fucking up. You think Seth had it bad? Imagining the Doc cutting bits off your younger self ''in front of you''...
**** [[spoiler:There are two deleted scenes related to this; first Kid Blue is literally being dragged out the back of the club and down an alley by another Gat Man. Kid recognizes the spot as where fuckups are taken to be executed, and escapes after killing the other Gat Man with a holdout pistol in his boot. At this point Abe is absolutely sure Kid will be taken out the back and killed, sadly debunking the idea they are the same person. Much like Old Joe, Abe would only remember if Kid managed to escape after he did it.]][[spoiler:The second deleted scene involves Kid hiding out in a police cruiser and interrogating the officer about Joe when he returns; the officer apparently knows Kid and tells him Abe has put a significant bounty on his head. Before he's even finished trying to claim he'd never turn Kid over, [[CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass Kid blows his head off]].]]

[[WMG:How the Time-Travel in Looper Works]]
I've read everything Rian Johnson has said on the plot. This is how Time Travel works in the Looper universe, and why the plot makes sense:

1)The first thing you have to understand is that Old!Joe and Young!Joe are NOT, in fact the same person. They are similar iterations of the same entity from two different timelines. Every time you travel back in time in the Looperverse, you create a different strand of time. Similar, but with minor differences. Butterfly effects, and all that.

2) Why do Old!Loopers accrue the damage taken on by their younger counterparts? It is, according to Rian Johnson, the universe's feeble attempts to correct paradox. Thus, when you stab the eye out of a young looper and the Old!Looper loses an eye - it's not because you've literally changed the timeline of the Old!Looper so that he's always had a missing eye - it's the universe imposing the paradox on the Old!Looper as they exist NOW in the current timeline. So Old!Seth experiences bodyparts being removed from Young!Seth, but the fridge logic of how did Old!Seth run away if he didn't have freaking legs doesn't kick in. Old!Seth DID have legs. But the timestream is attempting to resolve a paradox by removing them when Young!Seth's are removed.

3) This is why Old!Joe doesn't change in attitude towards Cid and Sara even though Young!Joe has bonded with them. Its also why Old!Joe retains memories of the last bits of his life despite the fact that Young!Joe's actions should have put him on a different life path. Old!Joe's timeline and past remains unchanged, but he has some of the memories and scars of this Young!Joe because it is history trying to resolve a paradox. You can't change the past, but the universe will attempt to resolve paradox by imposing physical and mental changes on an Old!Looper. When Young!Joe commits suicide, this doesn't erase the events of the movie. It just causes Old!Joe to die because the universe resolves the paradox by making Old!Joe superficially match what has happened to Young!Joe.

4) You may notice the funniest part of this: '''Loopers are completely superfluous'''. When you send someone back, they end up on a completely different timestream with absolutely no way of returning. There is no way they can affect you anymore. ''Only Abe insists that there is one timeline, and he's making money off the operation.'' The mob of the future is literally sending tons of gold and silver back in time and into essentially other dimensions for ''no reason''. Why? Because they're dumb mobsters who stole a time machine, not scientists.

* If nothing else, even if they (Joe) were in separate timelines, by traveling back and now existing in the same timeline, they, from the moment that Old!Joe first arrived, became the same person. That moment of arrival is what binds them together - up until then, they're separate.

[[WMG: The Loopers lead to the creation of the murder-detection technology that makes them necessary in the first place.]]
Joe mentions that they "aren't the most forward-thinking people," it's entirely feasible that several Loopers did a poor job of disposing of the bodies. And the future mob is sending all of their hits back in time to the loopers, there's no way that Kansas City is the only operation. Dozens, if not hundreds, of unaccounted for dead bodies, filled with buckshot, showing up all over the country, clearly shoddily attempted to be disposed of? It would make perfect sense for the government to develop technology to attempt to bring these random murders under control.

[[WMG: Cid is not [[spoiler: the Rainmaker.]]]]
I mean, the guy who gave Future!Joe the code might have been wrong. You can't take any information for granted. And as for [[spoiler: Future!Joe's disappearance after Present!Joe kills himself]], isn't it fundamentally because his past self is [[spoiler: dead rather than having anything to do the Rainmaker's (non-)existence]]? After all, [[MindScrew the story]] [[UpToEleven would've been more complicated]] had the [[spoiler: Rainmaker been Cid. If s/he really is Cid, then [[TimeCrash Future!Loopers wouldn't have been sent back, Present!Joe wouldn't have met Future!Joe, and all this wouldn't have happened]]. Then Cid wouldn't have met both Joes and probably lived as normally as possible, resulting in him not becoming evil,]] which would make Future!Joe's return to the present timeline improbable.

[[WMG: Cid is actually/also [[spoiler: the inventor of time travel.]]]]
He seemed to show hints of ChildProdigy [[spoiler: on top of the TK skills.]]

[[WMG: The "tracking technology" of the future is similar to the precogs in ''Film/MinorityReport'']]
Hence kidnapping doesn't show up, but murder does. Joe's wife is only shot by accident (they thought she was holding a gun, not a trowel), so it wasn't premeditated. They set the house on fire to throw off the authorities.
* Aha! And Minority Report happens in 2054, ten years after this film is set!
* This is now my head canon!

[[WMG: Cid IS the "Tracking technology" the crime bosses are trying to avoid.]]
His powers enable him to tell when people are killed and stop it. Time travel gets around that. This is why he's taking out the Loopers - after they're all gone he destroys the machines. He still has to send the Loopers back, because then the past would realize something's fishy.

[[WMG: The Mob keeps sending people back to the same time period.]]
Whatever the economic situation of the United States is in 2044, the odds are good it changes eventually for better or worse. For those in the future looking at history, there is a window of time where Kansas in 2044 is the perfect place to run a major criminal syndicate. The future mob doesn't necessarily have to send people back precisely 30 years, they could send them back 30 years, or 50 years or 200 years to any location on Earth.

Kansas 2044 represents a golden era where a criminal syndicate can operate in some measure of peace with enough vices to keep the Looper operation occupied and secret. It also has enough history and rule of law so the Mob knows everything that SHOULD happen in Kansas 2044 so the Loopers can move in without disrupting the timeline. By the time the economy or political climate changes to make this operation impractical, the loops are closed and another person like Abe is sent back to resume business.

[[WMG: ''Looper'' takes place in the same universe as ''Film/StarTrek''.]]
They have time travel, and they have hover bikes. They have huge cities, surrounded by farmland. The gangs controlling everything? They're the reason Earth has the Eugenics Wars. Khan Noonian Singh was, like the Rainmaker, probably another TK mutant. The TK virus was an attempt to genetically engineer a race of supermen; hence Young Joe's statement about "superheroes".

[[WMG:TimeTravel was PoweredByAForsakenChild]]
TimeTravel was developed and outlawed around the same time children with powerful reality warping abilities started turning, with only a few criminal syndicate types making use of it. Given the limited understanding and control they seem to have of it, it seems likely it was the result of a chance discovery of a child with the right TK abilities.

While we do briefly see an actual technological time machine in 2074, this doesn't discount the possibility of there being a small child entombed inside of it.

[[WMG: Time Travel caused the TK children]]
Due to excessive amounts of time travel back to the "present" of the film, this caused [[EldritchLocation physics to go all wonky in that particular area of time]]. Thus, children began to mutate due to exposure to radiation that shouldn't even exist on Earth. This could have also happened in several other periods of time, which could explain [[BeethovenWasAnAlienSpy witches, psychics, poltergeists, perhaps even gods.]]

[[WMG: ''Looper'' is the prequel to ''Film/TwelveMonkeys'']]

Old!Joe ''wasn't'' erased at the end - the old adage, energy cannot be destroyed, only transferred. He got caught in the eye of the storm, a storm of horrible changes to time that careless, criminal time travel had caused. When he returned to his own time, the damage to the history of the universe in which he came from was so awful that everyone believed it to be 1997 rather than 2070, and that humanity was destroyed by a virus rather than damages to time. Joe ended up imprisoned below ground - along with all the other criminals who messed with time. Unfortunately, the damage to time also did damage to Old!Joe as well. He was de-aged a few decades and his long-term memory fried, so that he could barely remember any old information, just snippets (e.g., his name starting with a J). The council of scientists below ground clumsily identified him as an obscure ancestor of his and sent him back in time with the knowledge that he had survived it and could do so again. Ultimately, Old!Joe did get sent back in time to die...but was killed in front of his ancestor, James Cole.
30th Mar '15 12:48:12 PM nombretomado
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[[WMG:Cid is a male [[ElfenLied diclonius]]]]

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[[WMG:Cid is a male [[ElfenLied [[Manga/ElfenLied diclonius]]]]
26th Jan '15 10:58:44 PM FordPrefect
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Seth fully believes that women are really into his TK (despite Joe telling him otherwise); Sarah makes a point of mentioning that [[spoiler: she would use her own TK to suppress men's when they tried to hit on her, and that one of them burst a blood vessel in his eye trying to lift a quarter,]] which sounds fully in line with something someone as impetuous and frantic as Seth would do. But more importantly, [[spoiler: it's assumed that Sarah's TK is unusual to find, especially in a woman. If she slept with someone else with TK, it would definitely explain why Cid is so super-powered: he got TK from both parents]]

to:

Seth fully believes that women are really into his TK (despite Joe telling him otherwise); Sarah makes a point of mentioning that [[spoiler: she would use her own TK to suppress men's when they tried to hit on her, and that one of them burst a blood vessel in his eye trying to lift a quarter,]] which sounds fully in line with something someone as impetuous and frantic as Seth would do. But more importantly, [[spoiler: it's assumed that Sarah's TK is unusual to find, especially in a woman. If she slept with someone else with TK, it would definitely explain why Cid is so super-powered: he got TK from both parents]]parents]].



Joe mentions that they "aren't the most forward- thinking people," it's entirely feasible that several Loopers did a poor job of disposing of the bodies. And the future mob is sending all of their hits back in time to the loopers, there's no way that Kansas City is the only operation. Dozens, if not hundreds, of unaccounted for dead bodies, filled with buckshot, showing up all over the country, clearly shoddily attempted to be disposed of? It would make perfect sense for the government to develop technology to attempt to bring these random murders under control.

to:

Joe mentions that they "aren't the most forward- thinking forward-thinking people," it's entirely feasible that several Loopers did a poor job of disposing of the bodies. And the future mob is sending all of their hits back in time to the loopers, there's no way that Kansas City is the only operation. Dozens, if not hundreds, of unaccounted for dead bodies, filled with buckshot, showing up all over the country, clearly shoddily attempted to be disposed of? It would make perfect sense for the government to develop technology to attempt to bring these random murders under control.



* Aha! And Minority report happens in 2054, ten years after this film is set!
* This is now my head cannon!

to:

* Aha! And Minority report Report happens in 2054, ten years after this film is set!
* This is now my head cannon!
canon!



His powers enable him to tell when people are killed and stop it. Time travel gets around that. This is why he's taking out the Loopers - after they're all gone he destroys the machines. He still has to send the Loopers back because then the past would realize something's fishy.

to:

His powers enable him to tell when people are killed and stop it. Time travel gets around that. This is why he's taking out the Loopers - after they're all gone he destroys the machines. He still has to send the Loopers back back, because then the past would realize something's fishy.



Kansas 2044 represents a golden era where a criminal syndicate can operate in some measure of peace with enough vices to keep the Looper operation occupied and secret. It's also has enough history and rule of law so the Mob knows everything that SHOULD happen in Kansas 2044 so the Loopers can move in without disrupting the timeline. By the time the economy or political climate changes to make this operation impractical the loops are closed and another person like Abe is sent back to resume business.

to:

Kansas 2044 represents a golden era where a criminal syndicate can operate in some measure of peace with enough vices to keep the Looper operation occupied and secret. It's It also has enough history and rule of law so the Mob knows everything that SHOULD happen in Kansas 2044 so the Loopers can move in without disrupting the timeline. By the time the economy or political climate changes to make this operation impractical impractical, the loops are closed and another person like Abe is sent back to resume business.



[[WMG: ''Looper'' takes place in the same universe of ''Film/StarTrek''.]]

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[[WMG: ''Looper'' takes place in the same universe of as ''Film/StarTrek''.]]



TimeTravel was developed and outlawed around the same time children with powerful reality warping abilities started turning. With only a few criminal syndicate types making use of it. Given the limited understanding and control they seem to have of it it seems likely it was the result of a chance discovery of a child with the right TK abilities.

While we do briefly see an actual technological time machine in 2074. This doesn't discount the possibility of there being a small child entombed inside of it.

to:

TimeTravel was developed and outlawed around the same time children with powerful reality warping abilities started turning. With turning, with only a few criminal syndicate types making use of it. Given the limited understanding and control they seem to have of it it, it seems likely it was the result of a chance discovery of a child with the right TK abilities.

While we do briefly see an actual technological time machine in 2074. This 2074, this doesn't discount the possibility of there being a small child entombed inside of it.



There's a 30 year span between the events of the film and Rainmaker 'suddenly' appearing. So perhaps Cid, in cognito, allows himself to be recruited as a looper. In the future, he sends loopers back to himself to kill them out of revenge. This is also how he's able to come out of nowhere to take over organized crime - he already know how it worked from the inside and had already manipulated things so that obstacles where already taken care of.

to:

There's a 30 year span between the events of the film and Rainmaker 'suddenly' appearing. So perhaps Cid, in cognito, incognito, allows himself to be recruited as a looper. In the future, he sends loopers back to himself to kill them out of revenge. This is also how he's able to come out of nowhere to take over organized crime - he already know how it worked from the inside and had already manipulated things so that obstacles where were already taken care of.



In the timeline where he becomes Rainmaker, he realizes that he needs to eliminate loopers and criminals. But that's too difficult by himself (he's only so powerful and if you get a 10,000 strong army, a lucky shot will happen). So he sets up the looper program with a fake requirement that loopers must kill themselves. This is to ensure that his targets take themselves out in the timeframe he needs (Rainmakers present when he's actually around). The victims are other criminals (hense the hood to avoid suspicion). This is also because he realizes that avoid organized crime from stopping him before he has his powerbase and to ensure that his plan actually works, he has to create the looper program and cultivate (not realizing that it's what caused his issues to begin with).

to:

In the timeline where he becomes Rainmaker, he realizes that he needs to eliminate loopers and criminals. But that's too difficult by himself (he's only so powerful and if you get a 10,000 strong army, a lucky shot will happen). So he sets up the looper program with a fake requirement that loopers must kill themselves. This is to ensure that his targets take themselves out in the timeframe he needs (Rainmakers (Rainmaker's present when he's actually around). The victims are other criminals (hense (hence the hood to avoid suspicion). This is also because he realizes that to avoid organized crime from stopping him before he has his powerbase and to ensure that his plan actually works, he has to create the looper program and cultivate it (not realizing that it's what caused his issues to begin with).



When time travel was invented the original goal of the Mafia was not to use time travel to dispose of bodies, but to send silver and gold back to manipulate the commodities markets and make a whole lot of money. The need to send a live human and the absence of volunteers for this one way mind scrambling journey made them to decide to kill two birds with one stone. The Loopers are just not told the whole story, just the version where it sounds like their task is what is the most important.

* What the loopers are told is also to increase their psychological control, if they just hired random mooks to pick up billions of dollars in untracable currency, there would always be theft problems. Loopers loyalty seemed to be specially cultivated with Abe hand picking those he thinks will buy in and be loyal. "Closing ones own loop" becomes a sort of morbid inventive not to steal and to stick with the organization, it is proof positive that even though you have been transporting billions of dollars, they let you live a full 30 or so years with the fruits of your labor.

to:

When time travel travel, was invented the original goal of the Mafia was not to use time travel to dispose of bodies, but to send silver and gold back to manipulate the commodities markets and make a whole lot of money. The need to send a live human and the absence of volunteers for this one way mind scrambling journey made them to decide to kill two birds with one stone. The Loopers are just not told the whole story, just the but a version where it sounds like their task is what is the most important.

* What the loopers are told is also to increase their psychological control, if they just hired random mooks to pick up billions of dollars in untracable untraceable currency, there would always be theft problems. Loopers Loopers' loyalty seemed to be specially cultivated cultivated, with Abe hand picking those he thinks will buy in and be loyal. "Closing ones one's own loop" becomes a sort of morbid inventive not to steal and to stick with the organization, it is proof positive that even though you have been transporting billions of dollars, they let you live a full 30 or so years with the fruits of your labor.
26th Jan '15 10:50:08 PM FordPrefect
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** She lied about his age. Cid is a toddler/younger child. Hence the toddler toys and thick crowns. Plus *Sippy cup* Those are outgrown b five latest, no way would there be a sippy cup at age ten o.O

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** She lied about his age. Cid is a toddler/younger child. Hence the toddler toys and thick crowns. Plus *Sippy cup* Those are outgrown b by five at the latest, no way would there be a sippy cup at age ten o.O
26th Jan '15 10:49:40 PM FordPrefect
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**** [[spoiler:There are two deleted scenes related to this; first Kid Blue is literally being dragged out the back of the club and down an alley by another Gat Man. Kid recognizes the spot as where fuckups are taken to be executed, and escapes after killing the other Gat Man with a holdout pistol in his boot. At this point Abe is absolutely sure Kid will be taken out the back and killed, sadly debunking the idea they are the same person. Much like Old Joe, Abe would only remember if Kid managed to escape after he did it.]][[spoiler:The second deleted scene involves Kid hiding out in a police cruiser and interrogating the officer about Joe when he returns; the officer apparantly knows Kid and tells him Abe has put a significant bounty on his head. Before he's even finished trying to claim he'd never turn Kid over, [[CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass Kid blows his head off]].]]

to:

**** [[spoiler:There are two deleted scenes related to this; first Kid Blue is literally being dragged out the back of the club and down an alley by another Gat Man. Kid recognizes the spot as where fuckups are taken to be executed, and escapes after killing the other Gat Man with a holdout pistol in his boot. At this point Abe is absolutely sure Kid will be taken out the back and killed, sadly debunking the idea they are the same person. Much like Old Joe, Abe would only remember if Kid managed to escape after he did it.]][[spoiler:The second deleted scene involves Kid hiding out in a police cruiser and interrogating the officer about Joe when he returns; the officer apparantly apparently knows Kid and tells him Abe has put a significant bounty on his head. Before he's even finished trying to claim he'd never turn Kid over, [[CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass Kid blows his head off]].]]
26th Jan '15 10:48:00 PM FordPrefect
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The idea of the Rainmaker as a StableTimeLoop makes no sense. We know that Bruce Willis killed his future self, so his future self didn't go after the Rainmaker, and HE STILL BECAME THE RAINMAKER! The only even that's happened that MIGHT prevent that future is that Sarah is now aware of the possibility, and will try even harder to raise him right...but, she was already trying to raise him right, so I don't now how much difference "try harder" will make...

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The idea of the Rainmaker as a StableTimeLoop makes no sense. We know that Bruce Willis killed his future self, so his future self didn't go after the Rainmaker, and HE STILL BECAME THE RAINMAKER! The only even event that's happened that MIGHT prevent that future is that Sarah is now aware of the possibility, and will try even harder to raise him right...but, she was already trying to raise him right, so I don't now know how much difference "try harder" will make...
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=WMG.Looper