History UsefulNotes / RussiansWithRustingRockets

15th May '17 10:02:02 AM CV12Hornet
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** Not anymore. Recent reports confirm that the Russian government will order 24 new [=MiG=]-29K to replace the more expensive to operate Su-33. The [=MiG=]-29K's lighter weight is also seen as advantageous for a ski-jump style flight deck.

to:

** Not anymore. Recent reports confirm that the Russian government will order 24 new [=MiG=]-29K to replace the more expensive to operate (and rather old) Su-33. The [=MiG=]-29K's lighter weight is also seen as advantageous for a ski-jump style flight deck.
25th Feb '17 2:00:23 PM nombretomado
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The Russian soldier is somewhat less of an antagonist than he or she was. They appear as good guys (though a bit angry at the US, mostly justified) in the StargateVerse, for example. Villains are usually of the RenegadeRussian variety. However, in the novel ''Plan of Attack'', by DaleBrown, the Russians launch MnogoNukes at America, although [[PresidentEvil their leader]] makes [[MakeTheBearAngryAgain Putin look positively nice]].

to:

The Russian soldier is somewhat less of an antagonist than he or she was. They appear as good guys (though a bit angry at the US, mostly justified) in the StargateVerse, for example. Villains are usually of the RenegadeRussian variety. However, in the novel ''Plan of Attack'', by DaleBrown, Creator/DaleBrown, the Russians launch MnogoNukes at America, although [[PresidentEvil their leader]] makes [[MakeTheBearAngryAgain Putin look positively nice]].
28th Jan '17 1:52:40 PM ArtoriusRex
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With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Russian Federation found itself rather short of cash militarily. The USSR had spent a huge proportion of its budget, and by extension tied up huge shares of its GDP, in sustaining the largest peacetime military in world history (in absolute ''and'' proportional terms). Given that cuts in social benefits (in addition to the already reigning economical chaos) would've resulted in widespread riots and other nasty stuff, the government found that lavish Soviet-time military spending is something that new Russia could no longer afford to do.

This meant that a lot of stuff ended up rusting. This really isn't helpful when it's a ''nuclear submarine''. It's been estimated by some analysts that only about 30 of 300 Russian ships could've been put to sea at any one time. This situation has been steadily improving since about 2005, with large scale rearmament programs in place (though invariably slipping in deadlines and costs, but that's another matter), and some cool new stuff in the pipeline, but it's a rather slow process. At least the old hardware gets to be properly maintained and modernized again at last.

to:

With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Russian Federation found itself militarily rather short of cash militarily.cash. The USSR had spent a huge proportion of its budget, and by extension tied up huge shares of its GDP, in sustaining the largest peacetime military in world history (in absolute ''and'' proportional terms). Given that cuts in social benefits (in addition to the already reigning economical chaos) would've resulted in widespread riots and other nasty stuff, the government found that lavish Soviet-time military spending is was something that new Russia could no longer afford to do.

This meant that a lot of stuff ended up rusting. This really isn't helpful when it's said stuff includes a ''nuclear submarine''. It's been estimated by some analysts that only about 30 of 300 Russian ships could've been put to sea at any one time. This situation has been steadily improving since about 2005, with large scale rearmament programs in place (though invariably slipping in deadlines and costs, but that's another matter), and some cool new stuff in the pipeline, but it's a rather slow process. At least the old hardware gets to be properly maintained and modernized again at last.



With the arrival of Putin and Medvedev, major investment is going into the Russian military, with new carriers and subs planned, stuff being upgraded (such as the Su-24 "Fencer" aircraft) and new missiles being tested. It may take a while to come to full effect- the Russian military has had a lot of problems getting things built on time. The low oil prices are certainly not helping with the monetary issues, as Russia is a major exporter of oil, producing an average of 10 million barrels of oil per day.

In recent years, the Russian Federation has engaged in a number of acts that could be termed sabre-rattling, [[strike: using the excuse of]] in response to the American "Son of Star Wars" missile defence system after the American withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and the continued expansion of NATO. These include restarting long-range bomber patrols, threatening to target MnogoNukes on Europe (nuclear missiles are currently de-targeted[[note]]Except that's all just a diplomatic bullshit. Nuclear missiles are ''always'' detargeted, their targets are uploaded into their control computers only during the launch preparations.[[/note]]), threatening to leave the INF treaty and a recent unconfirmed rumour that Tu-95 and Tu-160 bombers may be forward deployed to Latin America. While things have calmed down somewhat, tensions remain high, and there is still the possibility of selling S-300PMU/SA-20 "Gargoyle" anti-aircraft missiles to Iran (they've not been delivered) that gives Israel nightmares, since they understandably prefer to maintain air superiority.

There was of course the war against Georgia in summer 2008, where the Russians kicked the collective chacha out of a professional western NATO styled and equipped army. They did lose a "Backfire" bomber to Georgian fire and their air force generally didn't do too well, mainly because of general lack of training, as the current generation of pilots mostly came around during the worst time of [[TheNineties the 90s]], when there ''wasn't enough fuel'' to train. The series of the large-scale maneuvers undertaken in the closing years of the decade were mostly to address these problems.

to:

With the arrival of Putin and Medvedev, major investment is going went into the Russian military, with new carriers and subs planned, stuff being upgraded (such as the Su-24 "Fencer" aircraft) and new missiles being tested. It may take a while to come to full effect- effect -- the Russian military has had a lot of problems getting things built on time. The low oil prices are certainly not helping with the monetary issues, as Russia is a major exporter of oil, producing an average of 10 million barrels of oil per day.

In recent years, the Russian Federation has engaged in a number of acts that could be termed sabre-rattling, [[strike: using the excuse of]] in response to the American "Son of Star Wars" missile defence defense system after the American withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and the continued expansion of NATO. These include restarting long-range bomber patrols, threatening to target MnogoNukes on Europe (nuclear missiles are currently de-targeted[[note]]Except that's all just a diplomatic bullshit. Nuclear missiles are ''always'' detargeted, their targets are uploaded into their control computers only during the launch preparations.[[/note]]), threatening to leave the INF treaty treaty, and a recent unconfirmed rumour rumor that Tu-95 and Tu-160 bombers may be forward deployed to Latin America. While things have calmed down somewhat, tensions remain high, and there is still the possibility of selling S-300PMU/SA-20 "Gargoyle" anti-aircraft missiles to Iran (they've not been delivered) that gives Israel nightmares, since they understandably prefer to maintain air superiority.

There was of course the war against Georgia in summer 2008, where the Russians kicked the collective chacha out of a professional western NATO styled and equipped army. They did lose a "Backfire" bomber to Georgian fire fire, and their air force generally didn't do too well, mainly because of general lack of training, as the training. The current generation of pilots mostly came around during the worst time of [[TheNineties the 90s]], when there ''wasn't enough fuel'' to train. The series of the large-scale maneuvers undertaken in the closing years of the decade were mostly to address these problems.



The latest (to date - 2011) chapter of Russian military history is the much-maligned reform conducted by the defense minister Serdyukov. Russia's first civilian minister of defense (not counting Leo Trotsky) is widely considered absolutely incompetent in his job; servicemen rewarded him with the unflattering nickname "Field Marshal Taburetkin" (from ''taburet'' - stool), since his previous job was manager of a furniture mall. Some of his reforms are based on quite sound ideas; it's the practice that earned him the HateDom.

Among his reforms are mass firings of officers (including a total disbanding of warrant officers), purchasing military hardware in the West instead of giving jobs to the domestic military-industrial complex, reformatting the entire armed forces to be more like American ones while Russia has a wholly different strategical situation necessitating an old-style Soviet doctrine (including disbanding of regiments and divisions and shifting focus on brigades and operative commands) and introducing new uniforms that are woefully inadequate to the severe Russian climate.

On the other hand, much of his reform (which is not actually his, but a concerted governmental effort) is, as noted above, based on the solid reasoning, however bad its execution went, and the whole affair is a controversial thing, among both the serving soldiers and [[ArmchairMilitary civilian military buffs]] like there's no tomorrow. The reform proponents claim that a lot of what is perceived as dumb moves is actually a sort of bitter medicine that was sorely needed, but no one has the heart and means to do. Whether that's really so is mostly the matter of personal opinion.

For example, the old Soviet doctrine envisioned a massed land war not unlike the WorldWarII, which, frankly, [[BlatantLies isn't likely nowadays at all]]-- cue the establishment of joint regional commands and a shift to the brigade structure as a way to improve coordination and control. After all, the Russian military was for the most part still structured around WWII expectations, just as the Soviet one was.

It assumed a mass mobilization of the conscripts in the time of war, and thus in peacetime its rank structure was ''incredibly'' top heavy -- in Russian Army captains did the stuff for which [[SergeantRock professional master sergeants]] would suffice, because [=NCOs=] were mostly conscripts and would leave after a year or two, leaving a hole in the ranks, while officers were career soldiers and were expected to stay. Thus, claim the reform proponents, with the creation of the professional NCO corps a lot of officer positions simply become obsolete, leading to the mass discharges -- which, understandably, angered the people discharged.

The catch is, as of now there's still not that many professional [=NCOs=] around, and, anyway, the military has a huge problem with the ''quality'' of its volunteers: it's mainly poor, badly educated, working class young men with not much to do outside of the army, so their motivation and discipline leaves much to be desired. There are attempts to take some measures about it, such as almost twofold increase in pay (which actually comes across the board for the whole [=MoD=]) and much more stringent requirements and intensive training, but they are yet to bear fruit, if that's at all possible.

Another reason for resistance is plain graft (or, better put, the competition for graft opportunities). During the turmoil of the [[TheNewRussia Nineties]], a lot of the officers, especially senior ones, became corrupt and struck a lot of lucrative deals with the local businesses and even criminal gangs. So, for these officers a chance of losing the ability to skim off the top -- either because of cleaning of the house, as reform's proponents say, or because the Serdyukov's cronies want to steal themselves, by the words of its detractors -- is understandably an anathema either way. And then there's a simple resistance to change. A lot of much needed reforms are refused on the ground level simply for the [[SarcasmMode entirely justified reason]] of "That's not our way, [[MisplacedNationalism that's how Americans do it]]".

Equipment squabbles that much intensified during the Serdyukov's tenure, are a bit more complex story, but the core of the problem is rather simple: during the Nineties [[WhyWeAreBummedCommunismFell most of the Soviet military industry simply died]], or at least come to the verge of death, because the nation just didn't have the money for the new toys for its military. Very few companies (Sukhoi, for example, and that's why its CEO, Mikhail Pogosyan, now leads the United Aircraft Corporation) managed to stay afloat, mainly on export contracts, and any technological progress not linked to them simply stalled.

So when the money appeared again it was the [[SadisticChoice tough choice]]: either invest into the mostly dead industry, which will give results some 20 years down the way, while letting soldiers continue to use rusting and obsolete equipment in the increasingly high-tech environments; or buy equipment abroad, giving soldiers the chance, but driving a nail into the industry's coffin. [=MoD=] tries as it might to find a [[TakeAThirdOption Third Option]], but not always succeeds, and industry complains. Loudly.

In the end, the current reform is a very fluid, ambivalent affair that could be seen from several radically different angles, and it's simply too early to give it a conclusive overview. Though at least there's enough fuel for training again, and the ships, both old and new, gets to chase them some pirate off the coast of Africa. On the other hand, even Putin and Medvedev do acknowledge the reform as rather poorly executed and Serdukov himself as a failure, though he managed to keep his position in the recent government reshuffle, while Interior Minister Nurgaliev got the boot. On the other hand, Nurgaliev failed much more spectacularly. However, Serdyukov finally got the boot in late autumn 2012, with a huge scandal about his coruption.

to:

The latest (to date - date, 2011) chapter of Russian military history is the much-maligned reform conducted by the defense minister Serdyukov. Russia's first civilian minister of defense (not counting Leo Trotsky) is widely considered absolutely incompetent in his job; incompetent; servicemen rewarded awarded him with the unflattering nickname "Field Marshal Taburetkin" (from ''taburet'' - stool), since his previous job was manager of a furniture mall. Some of his reforms are based on quite sound ideas; it's the practice execution of them that earned him the HateDom.

Among his reforms are mass firings of officers (including a total disbanding of warrant officers), purchasing military hardware in the West instead of giving jobs to the domestic military-industrial complex, reformatting the entire armed forces to be more like American ones while Russia (Russia has a wholly different strategical situation situation, necessitating an old-style Soviet doctrine (including doctrine; the reforms included disbanding of regiments and divisions divisions, and shifting focus on brigades and operative commands) commands), and introducing new uniforms that are woefully inadequate to the severe Russian climate.

On the other hand, much of his reform (which is not actually his, but a concerted governmental effort) is, as noted above, based on the solid reasoning, however bad its execution went, execution, and the whole affair is a controversial thing, among thing,among both the serving soldiers and [[ArmchairMilitary civilian military buffs]] like there's no tomorrow. alike. The reform proponents claim that a lot of what is perceived as dumb moves is actually a sort of bitter medicine that was sorely needed, but no one has had the heart and means to do. administer. Whether that's really so is mostly the a matter of personal opinion.

For example, the old Soviet doctrine envisioned a massed land war not unlike the WorldWarII, which, frankly, [[BlatantLies isn't likely nowadays at all]]-- all]] -- cue the establishment of joint regional commands and a shift to the brigade structure as a way to improve coordination and control. After all, the Russian military was for the most part still structured around WWII expectations, just as the Soviet one was.

It assumed a mass mobilization of the conscripts in the time of war, and thus in peacetime its rank structure was ''incredibly'' top heavy -- in the Russian Army Army, captains did the stuff tasks for which [[SergeantRock professional master sergeants]] would suffice, because [=NCOs=] were mostly conscripts and would leave after a year or two, leaving creating a hole in the ranks, while officers were career soldiers and were expected to stay. Thus, claim the reform proponents, with proponents claim that the creation of the professional NCO corps simply made a lot of officer positions simply become obsolete, leading to the mass discharges -- which, understandably, angered the people discharged.

The catch is, as of now there's there are still not that many professional [=NCOs=] around, and, and anyway, the military has a huge problem with the ''quality'' of its volunteers: it's These are mainly poor, badly educated, working class working-class young men with not much to do outside of the army, so their motivation and discipline leaves much to be desired. There are attempts to take some measures about it, improve this situation, such as almost twofold increase increases in pay (which actually comes across the board for the whole [=MoD=]) and much more stringent requirements and intensive training, but they are these measures have yet to bear fruit, if that's at all possible.

they ever will.

Another reason for resistance is plain graft (or, better put, the competition for graft opportunities). During the turmoil of the [[TheNewRussia Nineties]], a lot of the officers, especially senior ones, became corrupt and struck a lot of lucrative deals with the local businesses and even criminal gangs. So, for these officers officers, a chance of losing the ability to skim off the top -- either because of cleaning of the house, administrative house-cleaning, as reform's proponents say, or because the Serdyukov's cronies want to steal themselves, by do the words of its skimming instead, according to the reform's detractors -- is understandably an anathema either way. And then there's a simple resistance to change. A lot of much needed reforms are refused on at the ground level simply for the [[SarcasmMode entirely justified reason]] of "That's not our way, [[MisplacedNationalism that's how Americans do it]]".

Equipment squabbles Squabbles over equipment that much intensified during the Serdyukov's tenure, tenure are a bit more complex a story, but the core of the problem is rather simple: during During the Nineties Nineties, [[WhyWeAreBummedCommunismFell most of the Soviet military industry simply died]], or at least come came close to the verge of death, it, because the nation just didn't have the money for the new toys for its military. Very few companies (Sukhoi, for example, and that's why its CEO, Mikhail Pogosyan, now leads the United Aircraft Corporation) managed to stay afloat, mainly afloat (mainly on export contracts, contracts), and any technological progress not linked to them simply stalled.

So when the money appeared again again, it was the [[SadisticChoice tough choice]]: either invest into the choice]]:

1. Invest in a
mostly dead industry, which industry. This will give results some 20 years down the way, while letting line, with the drawback of requiring soldiers to continue to use using rusting and obsolete equipment in the increasingly high-tech environments; or buy environments in the meantime, or
2. Buy
equipment abroad, giving abroad. This will give soldiers the chance, better and more up-to-date equipment, but driving will also drive a nail into the industry's coffin. [=MoD=] tries coffin.

Try
as it might to find a [[TakeAThirdOption Third Option]], but [=MoD=] does not always succeeds, succeed, and industry complains. Loudly.

In the end, the current reform is a very fluid, ambivalent affair that could be seen viewed from several radically different angles, and it's simply too early to give it a conclusive overview. Though at At least there's enough fuel for training again, and the ships, both old and new, gets get to chase them some pirate pirates off the coast of Africa. On the other hand, even Putin and Medvedev do acknowledge the reform as rather poorly executed and Serdukov himself as a failure, though he managed to keep his position in the recent government reshuffle, while Interior Minister Nurgaliev got the boot. On the other hand, Nurgaliev failed much more spectacularly. However, Serdyukov finally got the boot in late autumn 2012, with a huge scandal about his coruption.



As said above, the situation has been improving ever since the early Nougties, with something finally being visible by the beginning of TheNewTens. There's been a number of large-scale maneuvers, something that hasn't happened since the Soviet times, the long-range air patrols were reinstituted, and the Navy finally got a bit of love is so missed since Gorshkov's times. The [[RuthlessModernPirates Horn of Africa]] became a training grounds for the Russian Navy, with rotating squadrons from different fleets staying there pretty much all the time.

New equipment finally starts to get out of the pipeline, initially starting small, such as with project 22350 corvette, dubbed ''Stereguschy'' (''Vigilant'') class. Relatively small, just 2500 tons of displacement, it is nevertheless extremely heavily armed for its size, as is in Russian tradition, and is a smallest warship in the world to carry an integral helicopter. Three are commissioned, and five are on the slips, with the plans to eventually built 20 to 30 of them.

Its larger counterpart, the project 20350 frigate of ''Admiral Gorshkov'' class (named after Soviet admirals) would be better designated a destroyer, hadn't that moniker been grabbed by the essentially light-cruiser sized vessels nowadays. 4500 tons and bristling with the guns and missiles, the lead ship is undergoing a testing, to be commissioned in late 2012. Two more are building, with around ten projected overall. They are to be supplemented by six or nine projected ''Admiral Grigorovich'' (Tsarist admirals this time) class ships, of the 11356 project (the same Russia build for India), a tried and true design, which would give the Navy a respected frigate force.

On a heavier side there's the plan to repair and refit the three mothballed ''Kirov'' battlecruisers (probably cannibalizing one in the process, as a lot of parts aren't produced anymore), and there's half-finished ''Slava''-class cruiser that Ukraine has on sale (originally for sale to Russia, but given the current state of Russia-Ukraine relations that no longer seems likely). The new heavy destroyer project (12-14 kilotons) is also in the works, this time probably nuclear-driven, armed with [[{{BFG}} 4x6" guns]] in addition to the loads and loads of missiles, and probably even armored, essentially a scaled down ''Kirov''. The new aircraft carrier is considered, but probably won't be started until 2020. Two ''Mistral''-class [=LAPDs=] are ordered from France, mostly for their tech, with the two more to be license-built in Russia. However, Russia's recent actions in Ukraine have caused France to suspend the sale of these ships indefinately.

Two new classes of nuclear subs are entering service, the project 955 ''Borey''-class boomer, armed with the infamous, but (when all the kinks were finally ironed out) pretty capable ''Bulava''("Mace") missile, and a multipurpose 885 ''Yasen'' ("Ash tree") boats, essentially a ''Sea Wolf'' counterpart (and similarly hellishly expensive). Two of the former and one of the latter are already commissioned, with the plans to build around ten of each. Older boats are repaired and modernized, and there's also a thriving diesel boat program, supported by the brisk export sales.

Things are also pretty bright on the Air Force front, with the new 4++ gen fighters like Su-35 and [=MiG=]-35, a major upgrades of the Su-27 and [=MiG=]-29 families entering serial production, and a new [[SuperPrototype 5-gen fighter prototype]], a Sukhoi's T-50, undergoing testing (although western experts such as George Friedman consider it to be de facto 4th generation). The humongous An-124 transport is getting on the assembly line again, funded in part by the US military's inexhaustible airlift needs, and new Yak-130 advanced trainer helps young pilots to learn the ropes. Even the new bomber platform is deliberated, with [[MnogoNukesBombers some truly unbelievable rumors]] coming down the grapevine. And helicopters are being baked by the dozen, both utility and gunships as well, including the navalized Ka-52 Sea Alligator for ''Mistrals''.

to:

As said above, previously stated, the situation has been improving ever since the early Nougties, Noughties, with something finally being actual visible improvements becoming apparent by the beginning of TheNewTens. There's There has been a number of large-scale maneuvers, something maneuvers (something that hasn't happened since the Soviet times, times), the long-range air patrols were reinstituted, instituted once more, and the Navy finally got a bit of love is so it's missed since Gorshkov's times. The [[RuthlessModernPirates Horn of Africa]] became a training grounds ground for the Russian Navy, with rotating squadrons from different fleets staying there pretty much all the time.

New equipment finally starts has started to get out of come down the pipeline, pipeline. This initially starting started small, such as with project the Project 22350 corvette, dubbed ''Stereguschy'' (''Vigilant'') class. Relatively small, just 2500 2,500 tons of displacement, it is nevertheless extremely heavily armed for its size, as is in Russian tradition, and is a the smallest warship in the world to carry an integral helicopter. Three are commissioned, and five are on the slips, with the and there are plans to eventually built 20 to 30 of them.

Its larger counterpart, the project Project 20350 frigate of ''Admiral Gorshkov'' class (named after Soviet admirals) would be better designated a destroyer, hadn't had that moniker not been grabbed by the essentially light-cruiser sized vessels nowadays. 4500 4,500 tons and bristling with the guns and missiles, the lead ship is undergoing a testing, to be commissioned in late 2012. Two more are building, being built, with around ten projected overall. They are to be supplemented by six or nine projected ''Admiral Grigorovich'' (Tsarist class ships (named after Tsarist admirals this time) class ships, time), of the 11356 project (the same Russia build for India), a tried and true design, which would give the Navy a respected frigate force.

On a the heavier side side, there's the plan to repair and refit the three mothballed ''Kirov'' battlecruisers (probably cannibalizing one in the process, as a lot of parts aren't produced anymore), and there's a half-finished ''Slava''-class cruiser that Ukraine has on for sale (originally for sale to Russia, but given the current state of Russia-Ukraine relations relations, that no longer seems likely). The A new heavy destroyer project (12-14 kilotons) is also in the works, this time probably nuclear-driven, armed with [[{{BFG}} 4x6" guns]] in addition to the loads and loads of missiles, and probably even armored, essentially a scaled down ''Kirov''. The A new aircraft carrier is also being considered, but probably won't be started until 2020. Two ''Mistral''-class [=LAPDs=] are have been ordered from France, mostly for their tech, with the two more to be license-built in Russia. However, Russia's recent actions in Ukraine have caused France to suspend the sale of these ships indefinately.

indefinitely.

Two new classes of nuclear subs are entering service, the project Project 955 ''Borey''-class boomer, armed with the infamous, but (when all the kinks were finally ironed out) pretty capable ''Bulava''("Mace") missile, and a multipurpose 885 ''Yasen'' ("Ash tree") boats, boat, essentially a ''Sea Wolf'' counterpart (and similarly hellishly expensive). Two of the former and one of the latter are already commissioned, with the plans to build around ten of each. Older boats are being repaired and modernized, and there's also a thriving diesel boat program, supported by the brisk export sales.

Things are also pretty bright on the Air Force front, with the new 4++ gen fighters like Su-35 and [=MiG=]-35, a major upgrades of the Su-27 and [=MiG=]-29 families entering serial production, and a new [[SuperPrototype 5-gen fighter prototype]], a Sukhoi's T-50, undergoing testing (although western experts such as George Friedman consider it to be de facto 4th generation). The humongous An-124 transport is getting on the assembly line again, funded in part by the US military's inexhaustible airlift needs, and new Yak-130 advanced trainer helps young pilots to learn the ropes. Even the new bomber platform is deliberated, with [[MnogoNukesBombers some truly unbelievable rumors]] coming down the grapevine. And helicopters are being baked by the dozen, both utility and gunships as well, including the navalized Ka-52 Sea Alligator for ''Mistrals''.
7th Jan '17 9:31:07 AM Khathi
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Concerning the Donbass Conflict, opinions differ. Ukrainians claim that the Russian Army attacked them. Russians claim that no Russian soldier ever interfered in this conflict. The true story is, most likely, of the Russian special forces assisting local volunteers and irregular forces made of civilian volunteers from Russia (nicknamed "Green Men" because they wear military fatigues with absolutely no insignia of any kind). No real military action by Russia happened in this region.

The proof of that is the later Syrian conflict, more precisely, the Russian intervention in it. The Russians used air forces and long-range missiles to decimate the Syrian insurgent forces like there is no tomorrow. None of these tactics were observed during the Ukrainian conflict.

to:

Concerning the Donbass Conflict, opinions differ. Ukrainians claim that the Russian Army attacked them. Russians claim that no Russian soldier ever interfered in this conflict. The true story is, most likely, of the Russian special forces assisting local volunteers and irregular forces made of civilian volunteers from Russia (nicknamed "Green Men" because they wear military fatigues with absolutely no insignia of any kind). No real military action by Russia has ''[[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement probably]]'' happened in this region.

region. There's been talks of the "[[TheCavalry Northern Wind]]" during the periods of the most active fighting in 2014/2015 (ironically, both ending in complete rout/encirclement of Ukrainian Government forces by the rebels), but no definite proof ever surfaced in the two years since.

The proof of that is the later Syrian conflict, more precisely, the Russian intervention in it. The Russians used air forces their [[DeathFromAbove Air Force and long-range missiles missiles]] to decimate the Syrian insurgent forces like there is no tomorrow. None of these tactics were observed during the Ukrainian conflict.
22nd Sep '16 11:38:23 PM SSJMagus
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Concerning the Donbass Conflict, opinions differ. Ukrainians claim that the Russian Army attacked them. Russians claim that no Russian soldier ever interfered in this conflict. The true story is, most likely, of the Russian special forces assisting local volunteers and irregular forces made of civilian volunteers from Russia. No real military action by Russia happened in this region.

The proof of that is the later Syrian conflict, more precisly, the Russian intervention in it. The Russians used air forces and long-range missiles to decimate the Syrian insurgent forces like there is no tomorrow. None of these tactics were observed during the Ukrainian conflict.

to:

Concerning the Donbass Conflict, opinions differ. Ukrainians claim that the Russian Army attacked them. Russians claim that no Russian soldier ever interfered in this conflict. The true story is, most likely, of the Russian special forces assisting local volunteers and irregular forces made of civilian volunteers from Russia.Russia (nicknamed "Green Men" because they wear military fatigues with absolutely no insignia of any kind). No real military action by Russia happened in this region.

The proof of that is the later Syrian conflict, more precisly, precisely, the Russian intervention in it. The Russians used air forces and long-range missiles to decimate the Syrian insurgent forces like there is no tomorrow. None of these tactics were observed during the Ukrainian conflict.
8th Aug '16 3:04:20 AM Morgenthaler
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* Creator/TomClancy's ''[[Literature/JackRyan The Bear and The Dragon]]'' nicely proves that he ''can'', in fact, tear himself away from the old "[[UsefulNotes/ColdWar US vs. USSR]]" mindset ... by making RedChina, [[TheDragonsTeeth complete with nukes]], the new villains. As a result, the USA becomes allied with Russia (complete with commentary about the old red stars being overwritten with Russian tricolors on vintage equipment) in a fight against those nasty [=ChiComms=].

to:

* Creator/TomClancy's ''[[Literature/JackRyan The Bear and The Dragon]]'' nicely proves that he ''can'', in fact, tear himself away from the old "[[UsefulNotes/ColdWar US vs. USSR]]" mindset ... by making RedChina, [[TheDragonsTeeth [[UsefulNotes/TheDragonsTeeth complete with nukes]], the new villains. As a result, the USA becomes allied with Russia (complete with commentary about the old red stars being overwritten with Russian tricolors on vintage equipment) in a fight against those nasty [=ChiComms=].
1st Jul '16 12:54:41 PM Anddrix
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On the other hand, much of his reform (which is not actually his, but a concerted governmental effort) is, as noted above, based on the solid reasoning, however bad its execution went, and the whole affair is a controversial thing, which [[BaseBreaker breaks the base]] among both the serving soldiers and [[ArmchairMilitary civilian military buffs]] like there's no tomorrow. The reform proponents claim that a lot of what is perceived as dumb moves is actually a sort of bitter medicine that was sorely needed, but no one has the heart and means to do. Whether that's really so is mostly the matter of personal opinion.

to:

On the other hand, much of his reform (which is not actually his, but a concerted governmental effort) is, as noted above, based on the solid reasoning, however bad its execution went, and the whole affair is a controversial thing, which [[BaseBreaker breaks the base]] among both the serving soldiers and [[ArmchairMilitary civilian military buffs]] like there's no tomorrow. The reform proponents claim that a lot of what is perceived as dumb moves is actually a sort of bitter medicine that was sorely needed, but no one has the heart and means to do. Whether that's really so is mostly the matter of personal opinion.
22nd Mar '16 7:48:45 PM LtFedora
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Concerning the Donbass Conflict, opinions differ. Ukrainians claim that the Russian Army attacked them. Russians claim that no Russian soldier ever interfered in this conflict. Th true story is, most likely, of the Russian special forces assisting local volunteers and irregular forces made of civilian volunteers from Russia. No real military action by Russia happened in this region.

to:

Concerning the Donbass Conflict, opinions differ. Ukrainians claim that the Russian Army attacked them. Russians claim that no Russian soldier ever interfered in this conflict. Th The true story is, most likely, of the Russian special forces assisting local volunteers and irregular forces made of civilian volunteers from Russia. No real military action by Russia happened in this region.
22nd Mar '16 7:45:46 PM LtFedora
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* A group of Russian pilots briefly appear in ''Film/IndependenceDay'', getting the Americans' signal to prepare for the global counterattack.
25th Feb '16 12:42:20 AM Nohbody
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The RedsWithRockets were broken up among the new states, with all their forces being withdrawn from East Germany, as well as the Central and Eastern European states that had been satellites. The nuclear forces ended up all in the hands of Russia or destroyed. Russia retained some foreign facilities in the new states, including the Garbala radar tracking station in Azerbaijan, the Sevastopol naval base in Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula[[note]]although the entire peninsula is now controlled by Russia[[/note]] and various posts in Caucasus and Central Asia.

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The RedsWithRockets UsefulNotes/RedsWithRockets were broken up among the new states, with all their forces being withdrawn from East Germany, as well as the Central and Eastern European states that had been satellites. The nuclear forces ended up all in the hands of Russia or destroyed. Russia retained some foreign facilities in the new states, including the Garbala radar tracking station in Azerbaijan, the Sevastopol naval base in Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula[[note]]although the entire peninsula is now controlled by Russia[[/note]] and various posts in Caucasus and Central Asia.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=UsefulNotes.RussiansWithRustingRockets