History TheyChangedItNowItSucks / TableTopGames

* When people on the Privateer Press forums found out that one of the newest units for [[IronKingdoms Warmachine]] was going to be plastic instead of metal, reactions were...mixed. Many people welcomed the change but a particularly vocal minority condemned it for straying from the "Full Metal Fantasy" aesthetic that the company had cultivated up to that point, among other things.

*** For those curious, resin-plastic warjacks ''do'' still feel plenty solid. Probably helps that the torsos are all one giant block of solid resin-plastic rather than being hollow like some of the walkers from [[Warhammer40k another game.]]

* ''TabletopGame/{{Shadowrun}}'', Fourth Edition was announced. And there was much rejoicing. [[TaintedByThePreview Then the fans found out]] that the mechanics that have been in place for the last 20 years would be dumped for a somewhat simpler, n[=WoD=]-like system (though not quite as forgiving as the system described above). [[RuinedFOREVER Cue half the fanbase going]] [[BerserkButton into instant-fury mode]], which developed into major war between the pro-[=SR4=] fans and the anti-[=SR4=] fans long before the game was even released. Things have since calmed down, but in some SR forums comparison between #4 and the other editions is tightly regulated, if not outright "discouraged".

* The new edition of ''Hero System'' (aka ''Champions'') has caused a fair bit of brain meltdown in its longtime fanbase, who have declared it not only sucky but RuinedForever, and that all of their old stuff has been rendered completely unusable and there's absolutely no chance for it to interact with older versions. The only actual differences are the removal of an almost completely unused stat ([[MostCommonSuperpower "comeliness"]]) and a single power type that almost nobody used anyway.

*** D&D Next might not have this trope occur as vocally as it has for previous editions - everything this troper's seen on forums and such talking about the playtest material has been cautiously optimistic. Of course, like with any new edition of ''anything'' there's nothing stopping this trope from hitting full-force once the finished system is released.

** This trope combined with BrokenBase makes D&D less a game system and more collection of games with similar concepts but are ultimately separate in concept. The announcement that work is being done on writing future a 5th edition that will have modular rules as its selling point seems to be a case of WizardsOfTheCoast attempting to capitalize on this division.

** And in a more typical fashion, GW changed the models of the Daemonettes of Slaanesh, who originally were maximum TheEightees to an army of {{Cute Monster Girl}}s. Then they changed them ''again'' and now they look less eightees but extremely hideous. Most players were not amused. Almost needless to say, the old models achieve record prices on {{Ebay}}.

* An interesting variation occurs with every new edition of a GamesWorkshop game. Players will claim that the new edition is "dumbed-down" and aimed only at younger players, unlike the previous edition. This exact argument comes up every single time a new edition is released.
** The 2011 Sisters of Battle codex has received a very negative reception. Most players felt that the already not-too-powerful Sisters went from "mid-low tier" to "absolutely unplayable." Some of the other changes really led to head-scratching, such as the new Faith system which gives an army 1d6 faith per turn - whether that army is a 500 point skirmish force or a 3000 point massive force. Complaints include failing to scale powers, confusing powers, and nerfing an underpowered army. They changed it so it's simply not even worth fielding.

* [Battletech]. There are still people who rant and fume about the Clan Invasion (which had been foreshadowed for a decade), the Jihad, and reconciling the classic game with the established Mechwarrior Dark Ages storyline.

** The size of that contingent is certainly debatable; it's often easier to find old World of Darkness players than new.

* Many fans of the [[TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness original World Of Darkness]] games were outraged that White Wolf would dare to create a single, cohesive, and streamlined set of rules that actually allowed different lines to cross without a notebook full of house rules. Others were against the loss of a {{metaplot}} in preference of a more personal focus (though the metaplot of the original games was a point of contention for many players). Still others were furious that White Wolf removed their favorite subgroups (even though most were actually included, if re-envisioned, reclassified, or renamed). While most players have accepted the TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness as a significant improvement over the original in many (if not most) respects, a small die-hard contingent of players still refuse to see anything good in it.

** There is also the fact that you can't convert from earlier editions. Up until now you could easily enough do so. You can convert even a 1st edition game to 3.5 without much trouble but you can't convert 3.5 to 4.0.
*** YourMileageMayVary, strongly. In a word, THAC0. There are a great many fundamental concepts from 1st Edition that you'd have to change to port up, as well as power differences. (By 3.5, spellcasting had greatly thrust open the scope of the game, and any 1st Edition character ported up is sure to be dwarfed in comparison.) Furthermore, the class abilities in 3.5 aren't that hard to convert over to powers. I would say this is hardly an absolute fact.
*** THAC0 is almost exactly the same system as attack bonus - better attack bonus/THAC0 makes it easier to hit someone, better armor makes it harder, as it improves you get more attacks, but they're less accurate. Many of the numbers are even the same - a chainmail shirt gives you a bonus of five whether you're starting at 0 and going up or starting at 10 and going down. They just got rid of the counter-intuitive method of centering it around the number zero and making the two factors controlling it go different directions. Meanwhile, say "healing surges," "once per encounter ability," or "martial powers" to anyone between 1st edition and 3.5.
*** On the other hand the very concept of what a level means breaks down entirely between 2e and 3e. Before third edition characters leveled up at wildly different rates, some gained bonus exp for having certain stats, some were utterly capped at a certain level and never allowed to advance further, and multi and dual class characters would be impossible to convert on a level-for-level basis without totally unbalancing the game. You couldn't even port the stats of your 2e character onto a 3e character sheet and start building. 3e expects much higher stats to be the norm so you'd probably end up rerolling those as well. In essence, the only thing that truly carries over is the name of the class you're playing.
*** Converting really isn't all that hard unless you are trying to solely use older books. If an old edition campaign calls for a Lich, use the current edition stats for a Lich, so the complaint isn't completely valid. It is only valid in situations where there is no equivalent because of lore changes, but that isn't solely an edition issue, different settings in the same edition have this problem more often then different editions in similar settings.

** There is also the fact that you can't convert from earlier editions. Up until now you could easily enough do so. You can convert even a 1st edition game to 3.5 without much trouble but you can't convert 3.5 to 4.0. The issue is that 4.0 isn't just a change, but that it's a set of so many radical changes to established mechanics that [[InNameOnly if the books didn't have Dungeons and Dragons written on them]] it could easily be mistaken for a ''completely different game''.

* Among the ''[[MagicTheGathering Magic: The Gathering]]'' changes this has been applied to: The Sixth Edition rules changes, the Eighth Edition card face changes, removing Armageddon from the base set, making counterspells more expensive, moving from "Xth Edition" to "Magic 20XX", the Great Creature Type Update, the creation of Type 2, the name change from Type 2 to Standard... and so on.

* ''{{Shadowrun}}'', Fourth Edition was announced. And there was much rejoicing. [[TaintedByThePreview Then the fans found out]] that the mechanics that have been in place for the last 20 years would be dumped for a somewhat simpler, n[=WoD=]-like system (though not quite as forgiving as the system described above). [[RuinedFOREVER Cue half the fanbase going]] [[BerserkButton into instant-fury mode]], which developed into major war between the pro-[=SR4=] fans and the anti-[=SR4=] fans long before the game was even released. Things have since calmed down, but in some SR forums comparison between #4 and the other editions is tightly regulated, if not outright "discouraged".

* Many fans of the [[OldWorldOfDarkness original World Of Darkness]] games were outraged that White Wolf would dare to create a single, cohesive, and streamlined set of rules that actually allowed different lines to cross without a notebook full of house rules. Others were against the loss of a metaplot in preference of a more personal focus (though the metaplot of the original games was a point of contention for many players). Still others were furious that White Wolf removed their favorite subgroups (even though most were actually included, if re-envisioned, reclassified, or renamed). While most players have accepted the new [[TheWorldOfDarkness World of Darkness]] as a significant improvement over the original in many (if not most) respects, a small die-hard contingent of players still refuse to see anything good in it.

* Let's not forget [Battletech]. I still see people who rant and fume about the Clan Invasion (which had been foreshadowed for a decade), the Jihad, and reconciling the classic game with the established Mechwarrior Dark Ages storyline.

*** Martial powers does make sense - 3.5 had arcane, divine, psionic, incarnum, initiator, shadow and others. 4E had arcane, divine, psionic, martial, primal, shadow... those concepts actually stayed pretty much the same from 3.5 to 4th. Likewise 'once per encounter' was increasingly common towards the end of 3.5, with classes like the factotum, hellreaver and crusader all having encounter based abilities. You're focusing on all the differences, 3.5 characters are still easily convertible into 4.0 characters.

** The irritating bit is that people can just houserule anything they don't like. So why is... well, almost anything an issue?

* Among more legitimate complaints, this comes up a lot when ''{{Dungeons and Dragons}} editions are discussed. The base is not so much [[BrokenBase broken]] as it is shattered into a billion tiny splinters. Every single edition changed it and it sucked every single time.

*** Thaco is almost exactly same system as attack bonus - better attack bonus/thaco makes it easier to hit someone, better armor makes it harder, as it improves you get more attacks, but they're less accurate. Many of the numbers are even the same - a chainmail shirt gives you a bonus of five whether you're starting at 0 and going up or starting at 10 and going down. They just got rid of the counterintuitive method of centering it around the number zero and making the two factors controlling it go different directions. Meanwhile, say "healing surges", "once per encounter ability", or "martial powers" to anyone between 1st edition and 3.5.
*** Martial powers does make sense- 3.5 had arcane, divine, psionic, incarnum, initiator, shadow and others. 4E had arcane, divine, psionic, martial, primal, shadow... those concepts actually stayed pretty much the same from 3.5 to 4th. Likewise 'once per encounter' was increasingly common towards the end of 3.5, with classes like the factotum, hellreaver and crusader all having encounter based abilities. You're focusing on all the differences, 3.5 characters are still easily convertible into 4.0 characters.