History SeinfeldIsUnfunny / AnimeAndManga

4th Sep '17 9:24:40 PM AegisP
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** ''Manga/AstroBoy'' is THE Anime and Manga. It was the first truly popular piece in not only Japan, but also in the States, where it was one of the first Anime we had ever received. It's hard to articulate how much Astro Boy means to the medium; it's on par with ''Mickey Mouse'' in how important of an animated work it is.

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** ''Manga/AstroBoy'' is THE Anime and Manga. It was the first truly popular piece in not only Japan, but also in the States, where it was one of the first Anime we it and other foreign audiences had ever received. It's hard to articulate how much Astro Boy means to the medium; it's on par with ''Mickey Mouse'' in how important of an animated work it is.
26th Aug '17 9:50:20 PM rjd1922
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* HaremGenre Has a lot of this among its settings, since the huge popularity of the genre has translated many of his cliches into this genre.
** At one time the idea of ​​ChildhoodFriendRomance as OneTrueLove was very popular and was considered sweet for the majority of the audience because of the sweet romantic charm. However, subsequently, a great many authors began to use this as a cliche and lazy justification for the central romantic line, for which it is now considered very boring and to the point of stupidity an obvious moment in a lot of romance.
** OrdinaryHighSchoolStudent or UnluckyEverydude used to be 90% of the protagonists of all such works, as it helped to make the main character closer to the audience. However, over the years, these trope have so often been abused and used to indulge the fantasies of the audience, that now it will be perceived as an obvious PanderingToTheBase even in old works.
** As well as the two examples above, ChickMagnet was originally a popular element of SweetDreamsFuel in similar works. Now it will be perceived as a lazy attempt for ill-founded erotica and artificial romance due to the excessive use of this element as the basis of most harems as such. Especially if in combination with the previous paragraph, the protonist is too simple and unremarkable to attract so many charming and popular girls.
** And finally, most of the old straight HaremGenre works (especially the adaptation of VisualNovel like VisualNovel/{{Shuffle}} or VisualNovel/DaCapo) will now be perceived as silly, unrealistic and indulging the audience, since, due to the years of ClicheStorm, most modern harems are firmly in the SupportingHarem zone in an attempt to depict the story more adequately.

to:

* HaremGenre Has has a lot of this among its settings, since the huge popularity of the genre has translated many of his cliches into this genre.
** At one time the idea of ​​ChildhoodFriendRomance as OneTrueLove was very popular and was considered sweet for the majority of the audience because of the sweet romantic charm. However, subsequently, a great many authors began to use this as a cliche cliché and lazy justification for the central romantic line, for which it is now considered very boring and to the point of stupidity an obvious moment in a lot of romance.
** OrdinaryHighSchoolStudent or UnluckyEverydude used to be 90% of the protagonists of all such works, as it helped to make the main character closer to the audience. However, over the years, these trope tropes have so often been abused and used to indulge the fantasies of the audience, audience that now it will be perceived as an obvious PanderingToTheBase even in old works.
** As well as the two examples above, ChickMagnet was originally a popular element of SweetDreamsFuel SugarWiki/SweetDreamsFuel in similar works. Now it will be perceived as a lazy attempt for ill-founded erotica and artificial romance due to the excessive use of this element as the basis of most harems as such. Especially if in combination with the previous paragraph, the protonist protagonist is too simple and unremarkable to attract so many charming and popular girls.
** And finally, most of the old straight HaremGenre works (especially the adaptation of VisualNovel {{Visual Novel}}s like VisualNovel/{{Shuffle}} ''VisualNovel/{{Shuffle}}'' or VisualNovel/DaCapo) ''VisualNovel/DaCapo'') will now be perceived as silly, unrealistic and indulging the audience, since, due to the years of ClicheStorm, most modern harems are firmly in the SupportingHarem zone in an attempt to depict the story more adequately.



* ''Manga/JojosBizarreAdventure'' has been homaged, parodied, referenced, and exposed to so much MemeticMutation from various other anime and video games that it can sometimes come off as a bit predictable, and some of the most infamous moments have become less shocking (especially when you WatchItForTheMeme). It's important to remember the manga started in ''1986'', and a lot of the {{Manga/Shonen Jump}} series that share elements with it, such as ''{{Manga/YuGiOh}}'' and ''{{Manga/Yu Yu Hakusho}}'' were inspired by it, not the other way around.
** Ironically, the 2012 anime adaptation helped revitalize attention to it. With modern production values and no fillers, good soundtrack and voice actors, Jojo seems fresher now than a lot of more recent anime and manga that it likely inspired in the first place.
* The cover of the manga anthology book ''Four Shôjo Stories'' boasts that it contains "Japanese comics from a uniquely female perspective." In other words, the manga in it is shojo made by women. When it was first published, this was pretty much unique for a manga published in the USA. Nowadays, the American manga market is brimming over with shôjo manga that women made, and it's hard to understand just how unique this book was when it was first released.
* The {{Tsundere}} archetype as a whole is slowly starting to go down this path. There are several reasons for this. The {{Tsundere}} archetype was originally created to make certain female characters different from the usual submissive-styled Japanese female characters in not just anime, but traditional Japanese stories as well. Originally, the character itself was just someone that had a harsh outer personality with a soft happy center, but was usually never outwardly violent. However, by the Early 2000s the aforementioned ''Manga/LoveHina'' took this concept to the point where people associate with them calling someone they were secretly in love with names, becoming increasingly jealous at any other female contact, and paired with an IdiotHero who would never notice her feelings, making her even more aggressive. This in turn, caused many, many authors to copy this formula in both Harem and other series that had some form of romance, and run it into the ground. It also contributed to the creation of the ShanaClone; a sub-type of Tsundere comprised of mainly short and flat-chested girls which was popularized by ''LightNovel/ShakuganNoShana'', and has spawned numerous [[FollowTheLeader imitators]] ever since, but even this is fading out of appeal by many fans. Nowadays, this style of female {{Tsundere}} is seen as tired and unoriginal (If not written well). Only deconstructions like ''LightNovel/{{Toradora}}'' and ''LightNovel/ChivalryOfAFailedKnight'' seem to be the sole exceptions today, where they tone down on the Tsundere personality to make the female lead less harsh through character development.

to:

* ''Manga/JojosBizarreAdventure'' ''Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventure'' has been homaged, parodied, referenced, and exposed to so much MemeticMutation from various other anime and video games that it can sometimes come off as a bit predictable, and some of the most infamous moments have become less shocking (especially when you WatchItForTheMeme). It's important to remember the manga started in ''1986'', and a lot of the {{Manga/Shonen Jump}} series that share elements with it, such as ''{{Manga/YuGiOh}}'' and ''{{Manga/Yu Yu Hakusho}}'' were inspired by it, not the other way around.
** Ironically, the 2012 anime adaptation helped revitalize attention to it. With modern production values and no fillers, good soundtrack and voice actors, Jojo ''[=JoJo=]'' seems fresher now than a lot of more recent anime and manga that it likely inspired in the first place.
* The cover of the manga anthology book ''Four Shôjo Stories'' boasts that it contains "Japanese comics from a uniquely female perspective." In other words, the manga in it is shojo shôjo made by women. When it was first published, this was pretty much unique for a manga published in the USA. Nowadays, the American manga market is brimming over with shôjo manga that women made, and it's hard to understand just how unique this book was when it was first released.
* The {{Tsundere}} archetype as a whole is slowly starting to go down this path. There are several reasons for this. The {{Tsundere}} tsundere archetype was originally created to make certain female characters different from the usual submissive-styled Japanese female characters in not just anime, but traditional Japanese stories as well. Originally, the character itself was just someone that had a harsh outer personality with a soft happy center, but was usually never outwardly violent. However, by the Early 2000s the aforementioned ''Manga/LoveHina'' took this concept to the point where people associate with them calling someone they were secretly in love with names, becoming increasingly jealous at any other female contact, and paired with an IdiotHero who would never notice her feelings, making her even more aggressive. This in turn, caused many, many authors to copy this formula in both Harem and other series that had some form of romance, and run it into the ground. It also contributed to the creation of the ShanaClone; a sub-type of Tsundere tsundere comprised of mainly short and flat-chested girls which was popularized by ''LightNovel/ShakuganNoShana'', and has spawned numerous [[FollowTheLeader imitators]] ever since, but even this is fading out of appeal by many fans. Nowadays, this style of female {{Tsundere}} tsundere is seen as tired and unoriginal (If not written well). Only deconstructions like ''LightNovel/{{Toradora}}'' and ''LightNovel/ChivalryOfAFailedKnight'' seem to be the sole exceptions today, where they tone down on the Tsundere tsundere personality to make the female lead less harsh through character development.
17th Aug '17 12:27:57 AM drac0blade
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** Ironically, the 2012 anime adaptation helped revitalize attention to it. With modern production values and no fillers, good soundtrack and voice actors, and Jojo seems fresher than a lot of more recent anime and manga vintage that it likely inspired in the first place.

to:

** Ironically, the 2012 anime adaptation helped revitalize attention to it. With modern production values and no fillers, good soundtrack and voice actors, and Jojo seems fresher now than a lot of more recent anime and manga vintage that it likely inspired in the first place.
16th Aug '17 11:19:44 PM drac0blade
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* Most SchoolgirlSeries from the zero years suffer from this, especially Manga/KOn, Manga/AzumangaDaioh, and Manga/LuckyStar. In our time, it is very difficult to believe that these works, intentionally dedicated to the most common things in the life of ordinary high school students, could become huge cult successes that they get TV series with more than 20+ episodes. This is partly due to the fact that these works were the first big successes in this genre and they were copied many times during the distribution trend of {{Moe}} anime, especially the adaptations from Creator/KyotoAnimation. In our time, most of these series seem to be boring by comparison, so they almost never get more than 13 episodes and always try to depict as many unusual situations as possible, which makes the popularity of [=K-On=] and Azumanga somewhat incomprehensible to modern viewers.

to:

* Most SchoolgirlSeries from the zero years suffer from this, especially Manga/KOn, Manga/AzumangaDaioh, and Manga/LuckyStar. In our time, it is very difficult to believe that these works, intentionally dedicated to the most common things in the life of ordinary high school students, could become such huge cult successes that they get got TV series with more than 20+ 20 episodes. This is partly due to the fact that these works were the first big successes in this genre and they were copied many times during the distribution trend of {{Moe}} anime, especially the adaptations from Creator/KyotoAnimation. In our time, most Most of these series now seem to be boring by comparison, and so they almost never get more than 13 episodes and always try to depict as many unusual situations as possible, which makes the popularity of [=K-On=] and Azumanga somewhat incomprehensible to modern viewers.
10th Aug '17 6:17:35 AM StFan
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* ''Anime/GhostInTheShell''.
** The English dub of the original most likely comes off as {{Narm}}y to most modern-day viewers, but in TheNineties it was considered a major step forward for anime dubbing, featuring a reasonably faithful translation of the source material, correct pronunciations of Japanese names, and semi-believable voice acting. Incidentally, this is also true for the original German dub of the movie, so much in fact it later got a new dub along with ''[[Anime/GhostInTheShellStandAloneComplex Stand Alone Complex]]'', taking the German cast for ''Series/StargateSG1'' under contract.
** Story-wise, the plot and themes of ''Ghost in the Shell'', revolving around humanity's relationship with technology and the potential future of both, have been riffed on and built upon by countless works both Japanese and Western, from ''Film/TheMatrix'' to ''Film/ExMachina''. As such, when it got [[Film/GhostInTheShell2017 a big-budget, live-action Hollywood adaptation in 2017]], one of the more common criticisms (among [[WTHCastingAgency many others]]) was that its once-revolutionary subject matter had grown passe over the course of twenty-two years.
* Creator/HayaoMiyazaki. Many of his movies have been copied so extensively by both anime and manga that people complain about them being "cliché". No, [[Anime/CastleInTheSky Laputa]] isn't just "another ancient civilization on a floating island", it is THE ancient civilization on a floating island. Ironically enough, even though it was this movie that really started Japan's fascination of highly advanced, extinct ancient civilizations, both the name and the concept of the floating island of Laputa comes from ''Literature/GulliversTravels'', [[OlderThanTheyThink written more than two centuries earlier]].



* The {{Tsundere}} archetype as a whole is slowly starting to go down this path. There are several reasons for this. The {{Tsundere}} archetype was originally created to make certain female characters different from the usual submissive styled Japanese female characters in not just anime, but traditional Japanese stories as well. Originally, the character itself was just someone that had a harsh outer personality with a soft happy center, but was usually never outwardly violent. However, by the Early 2000's the aforementioned ''Manga/LoveHina'' took this concept to the point where people associate with them calling someone they were secretly in love with names, becoming increasingly jealous at any other female contact, and paired with an IdiotHero who would never notice her feelings, making her even more aggressive. This in turn, caused many, many authors to copy this formula in both Harem and other series that had some form of romance, and run it into the ground. It also contributed to the creation of the ShanaClone; a sub-type of Tsundere comprised of mainly short and flat-chested girls which was popularized by ''LightNovel/ShakuganNoShana'', and has spawned numerous [[FollowTheLeader imitators]] ever since, but even this is fading out of appeal by many fans. Nowadays, this style of female {{Tsundere}} is seen as tired and unoriginal (If not written well). Only deconstructions like ''LightNovel/{{Toradora}}'' and ''LightNovel/ChivalryOfAFailedKnight'' seem to be the sole exceptions today, where they tone down on the Tsundere personality to make the female lead less harsh through character development.
* LittleSisterHeroine and BrotherSisterIncest in general, have also been subjected to this recently. Originally, visual novels like ''VisualNovel/YosugaNoSora'' and ''VisualNovel/KanaLittleSister'' that are dedicated to this were considered to be something exceptional and unusual, and the "little sisters" were considered to be very cute and likable TokenMiniMoe characters. By the end of the 2000s, the manga and ranobe in this genre have reached such avalanche sizes that imouto-titles are, at best, considered an extreme ClicheStorm because of the same set of plot twists, and at worst, propaganda of incest and the exploitation of pervert fantasies on par with lolicon and the like. Although at the same time, many similar works have become a hit even outside of Japan, but this is exceptionally rare and a lot of disputes are also caused by the fact that many such heroines are often {{Tsundere}}s (Particular examples include light novels like ''LightNovel/{{Oreimo}}'' and ''LightNovel/TheIrregularAtMagicHighSchool'' from Dengeki Bunko), which itself has been subjected to overused cliches. Combined with ValuesDissonance for western audiences and readers, and you will understand why the sisters are quickly becoming this trope.

to:

* The {{Tsundere}} archetype as a whole is slowly starting to go down this path. There are several reasons for this. The {{Tsundere}} archetype was originally created to make certain female characters different from the usual submissive styled submissive-styled Japanese female characters in not just anime, but traditional Japanese stories as well. Originally, the character itself was just someone that had a harsh outer personality with a soft happy center, but was usually never outwardly violent. However, by the Early 2000's 2000s the aforementioned ''Manga/LoveHina'' took this concept to the point where people associate with them calling someone they were secretly in love with names, becoming increasingly jealous at any other female contact, and paired with an IdiotHero who would never notice her feelings, making her even more aggressive. This in turn, caused many, many authors to copy this formula in both Harem and other series that had some form of romance, and run it into the ground. It also contributed to the creation of the ShanaClone; a sub-type of Tsundere comprised of mainly short and flat-chested girls which was popularized by ''LightNovel/ShakuganNoShana'', and has spawned numerous [[FollowTheLeader imitators]] ever since, but even this is fading out of appeal by many fans. Nowadays, this style of female {{Tsundere}} is seen as tired and unoriginal (If not written well). Only deconstructions like ''LightNovel/{{Toradora}}'' and ''LightNovel/ChivalryOfAFailedKnight'' seem to be the sole exceptions today, where they tone down on the Tsundere personality to make the female lead less harsh through character development.
* LittleSisterHeroine and BrotherSisterIncest in general, have also been subjected to this recently. Originally, visual novels like ''VisualNovel/YosugaNoSora'' and ''VisualNovel/KanaLittleSister'' that are dedicated to this were considered to be something exceptional and unusual, and the "little sisters" were considered to be very cute and likable TokenMiniMoe characters. By the end of the 2000s, the manga and ranobe in this genre have reached such avalanche sizes that imouto-titles are, at best, considered an extreme ClicheStorm because of the same set of plot twists, and at worst, propaganda of incest and the exploitation of pervert fantasies on par with lolicon and the like. Although at the same time, many similar works have become a hit even outside of Japan, but this is exceptionally rare and a lot of disputes are also caused by the fact that many such heroines are often {{Tsundere}}s (Particular examples include light novels like ''LightNovel/{{Oreimo}}'' and ''LightNovel/TheIrregularAtMagicHighSchool'' from Dengeki Bunko), which itself has been subjected to overused cliches. Combined with ValuesDissonance for western audiences and readers, and you will understand why the sisters are quickly becoming this trope.trope.
----
25th Jul '17 6:24:09 PM TheRedRedKroovy
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* Creator/{{Tokyopop}} is a meta-example:

to:

* Creator/{{Tokyopop}} is a meta-example:meta-example.



* This also happens a lot with dubbing. Since the standards for anime dub voice acting have improved so much in recent years, many dubs that were considered [[SuperlativeDubbing huge steps forward in quality]] for their time have become increasingly unpopular among modern viewers. Examples include ''Manga/RanmaOneHalf'' and ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion''. An even better example would be the ''Anime/TenchiMuyo'' franchise. Back in the day (around 1994, to be exact), the use of union actors combined with clever dub scripts was considered a groundbreaking development in the world of anime dubbing. While many people still look back fondly on the dub even now, more level-headed viewers without a NostalgiaFilter will notice the dubs' miscast actors and actresses, awkward delivery, and overall poor acting quality in comparison to modern dubs for anime like ''Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann'' and ''Manga/FullmetalAlchemist''.



* ''Anime/GhostInTheShell''. The English dub of the original most likely comes off as {{Narm}}y to most modern-day viewers, but in the 90s it was considered a major step forward for anime dubbing, featuring a reasonably faithful translation of the source material, correct pronunciations of Japanese names, and semi-believable voice acting. Incidentally this also true for the original German dub of the movie, so much in fact it later got a new dub along with ''SAC'', taking the German cast for ''Series/StargateSG1'' under contract.
** Since the standards for anime dub voice acting have improved so much in recent years, many dubs that were considered huge steps forward in quality for their time have become increasingly unpopular among modern viewers. Examples include ''Manga/RanmaOneHalf'' and ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion''. An even better example would be the ''Anime/TenchiMuyo'' franchise. Back in the day (around 1994, to be exact), the use of union actors combined with clever dub scripts was considered a groundbreaking development in the world of anime dubbing. While many people still look back fondly on the dub even now, more level-headed viewers without a NostalgiaFilter will notice the dubs' miscast actors and actresses, awkward delivery and overall poor acting quality in comparisons to modern dubs for anime like ''Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann'' and ''Manga/FullmetalAlchemist''.

to:

* ''Anime/GhostInTheShell''. ''Anime/GhostInTheShell''.
**
The English dub of the original most likely comes off as {{Narm}}y to most modern-day viewers, but in the 90s TheNineties it was considered a major step forward for anime dubbing, featuring a reasonably faithful translation of the source material, correct pronunciations of Japanese names, and semi-believable voice acting. Incidentally Incidentally, this is also true for the original German dub of the movie, so much in fact it later got a new dub along with ''SAC'', ''[[Anime/GhostInTheShellStandAloneComplex Stand Alone Complex]]'', taking the German cast for ''Series/StargateSG1'' under contract.
** Since Story-wise, the standards for anime dub voice acting have improved so much in recent years, many dubs that were considered huge steps forward in quality for their time have become increasingly unpopular among modern viewers. Examples include ''Manga/RanmaOneHalf'' plot and ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion''. An even better example would be the ''Anime/TenchiMuyo'' franchise. Back themes of ''Ghost in the day (around 1994, to be exact), the use of union actors combined Shell'', revolving around humanity's relationship with clever dub scripts was considered a groundbreaking development in technology and the world potential future of anime dubbing. While both, have been riffed on and built upon by countless works both Japanese and Western, from ''Film/TheMatrix'' to ''Film/ExMachina''. As such, when it got [[Film/GhostInTheShell2017 a big-budget, live-action Hollywood adaptation in 2017]], one of the more common criticisms (among [[WTHCastingAgency many people still look back fondly on others]]) was that its once-revolutionary subject matter had grown passe over the dub even now, more level-headed viewers without a NostalgiaFilter will notice the dubs' miscast actors and actresses, awkward delivery and overall poor acting quality in comparisons to modern dubs for anime like ''Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann'' and ''Manga/FullmetalAlchemist''.course of twenty-two years.
22nd Jun '17 5:37:28 AM LittleBuster
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** And finally, most of the old straight HaremGenre works (especially the adaptation of VisualNovel like VisualNovel/Shuffle or VisualNovel/DaCapo) will now be perceived as stupid, unrealistic and indulging the audience, since, due to the years of ClicheStorm, most modern harems are firmly in the SupportingHarem zone in an attempt to depict the story more adequately.

to:

** And finally, most of the old straight HaremGenre works (especially the adaptation of VisualNovel like VisualNovel/Shuffle VisualNovel/{{Shuffle}} or VisualNovel/DaCapo) will now be perceived as stupid, silly, unrealistic and indulging the audience, since, due to the years of ClicheStorm, most modern harems are firmly in the SupportingHarem zone in an attempt to depict the story more adequately.
22nd Jun '17 5:34:30 AM LittleBuster
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Added DiffLines:

* HaremGenre Has a lot of this among its settings, since the huge popularity of the genre has translated many of his cliches into this genre.
** At one time the idea of ​​ChildhoodFriendRomance as OneTrueLove was very popular and was considered sweet for the majority of the audience because of the sweet romantic charm. However, subsequently, a great many authors began to use this as a cliche and lazy justification for the central romantic line, for which it is now considered very boring and to the point of stupidity an obvious moment in a lot of romance.
** OrdinaryHighSchoolStudent or UnluckyEverydude used to be 90% of the protagonists of all such works, as it helped to make the main character closer to the audience. However, over the years, these trope have so often been abused and used to indulge the fantasies of the audience, that now it will be perceived as an obvious PanderingToTheBase even in old works.
** As well as the two examples above, ChickMagnet was originally a popular element of SweetDreamsFuel in similar works. Now it will be perceived as a lazy attempt for ill-founded erotica and artificial romance due to the excessive use of this element as the basis of most harems as such. Especially if in combination with the previous paragraph, the protonist is too simple and unremarkable to attract so many charming and popular girls.
** And finally, most of the old straight HaremGenre works (especially the adaptation of VisualNovel like VisualNovel/Shuffle or VisualNovel/DaCapo) will now be perceived as stupid, unrealistic and indulging the audience, since, due to the years of ClicheStorm, most modern harems are firmly in the SupportingHarem zone in an attempt to depict the story more adequately.
22nd Jun '17 4:52:57 AM tropower
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Added DiffLines:

** Furthermore, while the ActionGirl is common in both eastern and western works today, both Jun the Swan and Sayaka Yumi (Mazinger Z) are contenders for the first action girl in anime.
15th Jun '17 10:09:03 AM DivineFlame100
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* Most SchoolgirlSeries from the zero years suffer from this, especially Manga/KOn, Manga/{{Azumanga}} and Manga/LuckyStar. In our time it is very difficult to believe that these works, intentionally dedicated to the most common things in the life of ordinary high school students, not only could become cult, but also to get TV series with more than 20+ episodes. This is partly due to the fact that these works were the first big success in this genre and they were copied many times during the distribution trend on {{Moe}} - anime, especially the adaptation of Creator/KyotoAnimation. In our time, most of these series are afraid to seem boring, so they almost never get more than 13 episodes and always try to depict as many unusual situations as possible, which makes the popularity of K-On or Azumanga somewhat incomprehensible to the modern viewer.

to:

* Most SchoolgirlSeries from the zero years suffer from this, especially Manga/KOn, Manga/{{Azumanga}} Manga/AzumangaDaioh, and Manga/LuckyStar. In our time time, it is very difficult to believe that these works, intentionally dedicated to the most common things in the life of ordinary high school students, not only could become cult, but also to huge cult successes that they get TV series with more than 20+ episodes. This is partly due to the fact that these works were the first big success successes in this genre and they were copied many times during the distribution trend on of {{Moe}} - anime, especially the adaptation of adaptations from Creator/KyotoAnimation. In our time, most of these series are afraid to seem boring, to be boring by comparison, so they almost never get more than 13 episodes and always try to depict as many unusual situations as possible, which makes the popularity of K-On or [=K-On=] and Azumanga somewhat incomprehensible to the modern viewer.viewers.
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