History Main / VictoriousLoser

1st Feb '18 1:49:22 PM Jhonny
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* Germany's ability to come out of both world wars with a booming economy (well in the first case until 1929 anyway) compared to Britain's lingering problems which eventually reduced the UsefulNotes/BritishEmpire to some rocks in the South Atlantic led to the frequent comment "Who won the bloody war anyway". True, Germany lost immense amounts of goods and people in wars it started, but given how they looked just a few years after the end of the war, it is hard to tell victors from vanquished.
1st Feb '18 1:42:47 PM Jhonny
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* Ultimately UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution did not win. UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte took over and rolled back many of the advances that had been made. And after Bonaparte was gone, the same Bourbon dynasty that had been deposed took over again. The most egalitarian constitution never got enacted and those in any way connected to the "reign of terror" have gotten a HistoricalVillainUpgrade in pretty much every single work of fiction ever. But the ideals espoused by the revolutionaries - even the most radical ones - ultimately carried the day. The divine right of Kings is defunct and one person one vote is such an universally acknowledged principle that even dictatorships pretend to live by it. The French revolution was probably the most successful failure in the political history of humanity.

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* Ultimately UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution did not win. UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte took over and rolled back many of the advances that had been made. And after Bonaparte was gone, the same Bourbon dynasty that had been deposed took over again. The most egalitarian constitution never got enacted and those in any way connected to the "reign of terror" have gotten a HistoricalVillainUpgrade in pretty much every single work of fiction ever. But the ideals espoused by the revolutionaries - even the most radical ones - ultimately carried the day. The divine right of Kings is defunct not seriously advocated by anybody any more and one "one person one vote vote" is such an universally acknowledged principle that even dictatorships pretend to live by it. The French revolution was probably the most successful failure in the political history of humanity.
29th Jan '18 8:27:51 PM HighCrate
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* A case can be made about this regarding communism, which became DeaderThanDisco at the end of the UsefulNotes/ColdWar. It lost the war, and failed in many of its goals, but historians argued that its original goals and ideas [[TheMoralSubstitute succeeded by being co-opted by Liberal democracies]]:

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* A case can be made about this regarding communism, which became DeaderThanDisco defunct at the end of the UsefulNotes/ColdWar. It lost the war, and failed in many of its goals, but historians argued that its original goals and ideas [[TheMoralSubstitute succeeded by being co-opted by Liberal democracies]]:



* Ultimately UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution did not win. UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte took over and rolled back many of the advances that had been made. And after Bonaparte was gone, the same Bourbon dynasty that had been deposed took over again. The most egalitarian constitution never got enacted and those in any way connected to the "reign of terror" have gotten a HistoricalVillainUpgrade in pretty much every single work of fiction ever. But the ideals espoused by the revolutionaries - even the most radical ones - ultimately carried the day. The divine right of Kings is DeaderThanDisco and one person one vote is such an universally acknowledged principle that even dictatorships pretend to live by it. The French revolution was probably the most successful failure in the political history of humanity.

to:

* Ultimately UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution did not win. UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte took over and rolled back many of the advances that had been made. And after Bonaparte was gone, the same Bourbon dynasty that had been deposed took over again. The most egalitarian constitution never got enacted and those in any way connected to the "reign of terror" have gotten a HistoricalVillainUpgrade in pretty much every single work of fiction ever. But the ideals espoused by the revolutionaries - even the most radical ones - ultimately carried the day. The divine right of Kings is DeaderThanDisco defunct and one person one vote is such an universally acknowledged principle that even dictatorships pretend to live by it. The French revolution was probably the most successful failure in the political history of humanity.
25th Dec '17 10:43:25 AM eroock
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-->--'''Dilios''', ''Film/ThreeHundred''

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-->--'''Dilios''', -->-- '''Dilios''', ''Film/ThreeHundred''
14th Dec '17 2:20:57 PM Jhonny
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* The 1956 Hungarian Uprising would end with the revolution being crushed when the Red Army intervened but it could be argued that it played a vital role in the fall of communism. First it would provide a model for the protests that would happen some thirty years alter across all the Soviet satellites. Second it caused the USSR to double down on military security in the rest of the eastern block, the cost of which played no small part in the economic troubles that plagued Soviet Union that ultimately contributed to its fall.

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* The 1956 Hungarian Uprising would end with the revolution being crushed when the Red Army intervened but it could be argued that it played a vital role in the fall of communism. First it would provide a model for the protests that would happen some thirty years alter later across all the Soviet satellites. Second it caused the USSR to double down on military security - and downright bribery as the "carrot" to the military stick - in the rest of the eastern block, the cost of which played no small part in the economic troubles that plagued Soviet Union that ultimately contributed to its fall.
14th Dec '17 2:16:02 PM Caps-luna
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* The 1956 Hungarian Uprising would end with the revolution being crushed when the Red Army intervened but it could be argued that it played a vital role in the fall of communism. First it would provide a model for the protests that would happen some thirty years alter across all the Soviet satellites. Second it caused the USSR to double down on military security in the rest of the eastern block, the cost of which played no small part in the economic troubles that plagued Soviet Union that ultimately contributed to its fall.
26th Nov '17 9:37:57 AM nombretomado
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** Subhash Chandra Bose is a highly controversial figure in Indian history, who was initially a popular leader of the Indian National Congress, and someone who wanted to put forth socialist policies to erode India's caste system and introduce gender equality, and he advocated building a national army to militarily liberate India, policies which made him unpopular with the liberal reformist Congress and the likes of Gandhi and Nehru who advocated "non-violent resistance". Frustrated at his inability, Bose turned to seeking foreign support from USSR initially, and then, UsefulNotes/NaziGermany and UsefulNotes/ImperialJapan by invoking EnemyMine against the English during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, a policy that went nowhere until his death by plane crash[[note]]Which Indian ConspiracyTheory buffs have long seen as evidence of either British or Congress perfidy though historians insist that he really did die by plane crash[[/note]]. Bose's Azad Hind Fauz (Free India Army) was the first army of Indians, by Indians, with desegregated caste, religious and gender lines (which made him distinctly ''un''like his allies) and while it was a force too small to serve decisively, and was unpopular with the much larger contingent of Indians serving with UsefulNotes/KiplingsFinest, India's army formed after independence resembles Bose's army more than the English.

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** Subhash Chandra Bose is a highly controversial figure in Indian history, who was initially a popular leader of the Indian National Congress, and someone who wanted to put forth socialist policies to erode India's caste system and introduce gender equality, and he advocated building a national army to militarily liberate India, policies which made him unpopular with the liberal reformist Congress and the likes of Gandhi and Nehru who advocated "non-violent resistance". Frustrated at his inability, Bose turned to seeking foreign support from USSR initially, and then, UsefulNotes/NaziGermany and UsefulNotes/ImperialJapan by invoking EnemyMine against the English during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, a policy that went nowhere until his death by plane crash[[note]]Which Indian ConspiracyTheory UsefulNotes/ConspiracyTheory buffs have long seen as evidence of either British or Congress perfidy though historians insist that he really did die by plane crash[[/note]]. Bose's Azad Hind Fauz (Free India Army) was the first army of Indians, by Indians, with desegregated caste, religious and gender lines (which made him distinctly ''un''like his allies) and while it was a force too small to serve decisively, and was unpopular with the much larger contingent of Indians serving with UsefulNotes/KiplingsFinest, India's army formed after independence resembles Bose's army more than the English.
7th Nov '17 12:53:15 PM Jhonny
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* The Finnish would traditionally be considered to have lost the Winter War and the Continuation war, as they lost territory. However they inflicted such staggering casualties on the Soviets to get that territory that no one has since seriously considered aggressive military action against Finland.

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* The Finnish would traditionally be considered to have lost the Winter War and the Continuation war, as they lost territory. However they inflicted such staggering casualties on the Soviets to get that territory that no one has since seriously considered aggressive military action against Finland. Finland managed to become the ''only'' country attacked by the Soviets during the Hitler Stalin pact ''and'' the only country fighting on the side of Nazi Germany to still have basically the same form of government in 1946 that it did in 1938. And then Finland one-upped the whole thing by being directly next to the Soviet Union, having no official alliance with NATO and still outlasting any overt or covert attempts of the Soviets to make Finland their satellite.
6th Nov '17 10:50:08 PM Caps-luna
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* The Finnish would traditionally be considered to have lost the Winter War and the Continuation war, as they lost territory. However they inflicted such staggering casualties on the Soviets to get that territory that no one has since seriously considered aggressive military action against Finland.
4th Oct '17 7:15:19 AM Jhonny
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* The Doolittle Raid didn't achieve any of its strategic objectives and all planes could not be recovered. However it scarred the crap out of the Japanese. This fear lead to Admiral Yamamoto being pressured to take Midway island quickly and secure Japan's defensive perimeter. This battle would end with all of Yamamoto's carrier's being destroyed and the Japanese war machine being stopped in its tracks.

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* The Doolittle Raid didn't achieve any of its strategic objectives and not all planes could not be recovered. However it scarred scared the crap out of the Japanese. This fear lead to Admiral Yamamoto being pressured to take Midway island quickly and secure Japan's defensive perimeter. This battle would end with all of Yamamoto's carrier's being destroyed and the Japanese war machine being stopped in its tracks.
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