History Main / ToBeLawfulOrGood

* Near the end of ''GundamSEED'', Athrun Zala was in this situation. After successfully defeating and apparently killing his ForgottenChildhoodFriend who had ended up on the other side of the war, he returns home to discover that his ArrangedMarriage fiance managed to not only save his friend's life, but engineered a {{Gundamjack}} on his behalf. Athrun is ordered to destroy or capture the friend, the fiance, ''and'' the Gundam, presenting him with a choice between MyCountryRightOrWrong and [=~Screw The Rules, I'm Doing What's Right~=]. Eventually he decides to TakeAThirdOption and works to remove his country's corrupt, extremist leadership while still defending its people from attack.

*** [[spoiler:It's not that hard a choice, the California missile is heading for an isolated area while the Hackensack one is going to strike a heavily populated one; if anything, Superman would likely have made the same choice if he wasn't in such personal peril at that moment.]]

* King Arthur and his knights sometimes face this dilemma. Merlin usually escapes it--in fact, he's generally depicted as Chaotic Neutral.

* A recurring theme of the ''RetrievalArtist'' series of sci-fi detective novels: humankind has treaties and a legal system of TheFederation-like Earth Sphere Alliance, under which humans can be extradited for alien crimes, many which would not be crimes under human law or morality, for which the punishments are very severe. Disaparence services and Retrieval Artists work to protect these people from the law. The protagonist, Miles Flint, starts out as a cop who entered the force because he believed in justice. When a case involving a family that had Disappeared forces the question on him, he choses good, afterward leaving the force and becoming a Retrieval Artist. His partner, Noelle DeRicci, is faced with similar dilemmas and even though she resents the laws and believes they're wrong, elects to keep working under them because she has trouble accepting that breaking Law can be Good.

The above option is essentially when a character says [=~Screw The Rules, I'm Doing What's Right~=].

* {{Superman}}, being one of the main poster children for Lawful Good, has faced this dilemma a few times. When he was just starting out in the GoldenAge, he was more Neutral Good, and pretty willing to play fast n' loose with the law in order to do the right thing, but he became Lawful as time went on. The most glaring example that sticks out is in the second Superman/Spider-Man team up, when the heroes have just stopped Doctor Doom from conquering and almost destroying the entire planet, but Doom has fled to the Latverian embassy, and Supes says he can't arrest him because he's legally on Latverian ground. On the other hand, the recent "Public Enemies" storyline involved [[BigBad Lex Luthor]] becoming President and declaring Superman an outlaw, so Supes didn't have much choice but to fight the government.

* Roy of ''{{The Order Of The Stick}}'' has his lawful credentials called into question by a character. (who will remain nondescript for the sake of avoiding spoilers.) At the end of the interview however, the being, a creature of pure LawfulGood, cannot class Roy as NeutralGood because for all his failings, Roy is trying, and cannot be held to the same standards as pure forces of LawfulGood.

3: Clever characters find a [[TakeAThirdOption third option]]. Maybe they tell something FromACertainPointOfView. Failing that, they may not be able to interfere themselves, but they'll contact the proper authorities or get a less Lawful character to act on their behalf, leading to a rescue by TheCavalry. A character may consider that not acting would be an even greater violation of his code or law system than holding back and letting things go through. LawfulGood doesn't mean LawfulStupid, after all.

The LG character may alternatively combine a ZerothLawRebellion and GoodIsNotNice and interpret the dilemma such that he or she realizes it isn't a dilemma, or was an engineered ''false'' dilemma.

* In the ''ForgottenRealms'' DungeonsAndDragons setting, Tyr is one of the most staunchly Lawful Good deities. However, it is stated that his clerics "never enforce a law that can be shown to be unjust."

* In the first Christopher Reeve ''{{Superman}}'' film, Superman winds up in a SadisticChoice situation. [[spoiler: Lex Luthor's evil plan involves launching two missles, one aimed at Hackensack, New Jersey and the other at the center of the San Andreas Fault. The mother of Lex's henchwoman, Miss Teschmacher, lives in Hackensack. She agrees to get rid of the Kryptonite that is leaving Superman helpless to do anything but only if he'll agree to stop the missile heading toward Hackensack first. Superman agrees and is true to his word, though more people are - including Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen - are endangered by the earthquake triggered by the San Andreas Fault missile.]]

* In the first Christopher Reeve ''{{Superman}}'' film, Superman is given a SadisticChoice by Lex Luthor. [[spoiler: He destroys the missile headed for Hackensack, New Jersey, saving millions and keeping his promise, but in doing so [[AlwaysSaveTheGirl is forced to let Lois Lane die]]. The dilemma comes when Superman decides to break Kryptonian law by using time travel to save her.]]

* Red Witch's GalaxyRangers fanfics play it both ways with the characters of Walsh and Zachary. Walsh traded Lawful Good for Lawful Neutral, especially when grilled about the Supertrooper Project, and eventually crosses the line when he pulls a few [[ShootTheDog less than ethical stunts]] and finally pulls a ''massive'' ShootTheSonOfABitch by [[spoiler: attempting to murder Senator Wheiner and vanishing]]. Zachary is, at heart, a believer in ''justice'' more than he is a believer of law, and when it's found out that certain elements of Earth's Government dabbled in things like [[BloodSport staging death-matches among the Supertroopers]], and government condoned ''genocide'' of Niko's homeworld due to FantasticRacism, the good captain is justifiably pissed off, and ready to space "lawful" in order to expose and stop their crimes. Saying he goes PapaWolf if you threaten his loved ones is like saying the ocean's a mite damp.

3: Clever characters find a [[TakeAThirdOption third option]]. Maybe they tell something FromACertainPointOfView. Failing that, they may not be able to interfere themselves, but they'll contact the proper authorities or get a less Lawful character to act on their behalf, leading to a rescue by TheCavalry. Also, LawfulGood doesn't mean LawfulStupid, and a character may consider that not acting would be an even greater violation of his code or law system than holding back and letting things go through.

* Near the end of ''GundamSEED'', Athrun Zala was in this situation. After returning to ZAFT, he was awarded the Order of the Nebula for the achievement of [[spoiler:destroying the Strike Gundam]], and is chosen to be under the direct command of the PLANT Supreme Council and assigned the newly developed Justice Gundam. He is ordered to [[spoiler:track and retrieve the Freedom Gundam, which has been stolen by Kira Yamato, with the aid of his fiancee Lacus Clyne. Lacus is accused of treason and Athrun couldn't believe it. Once he finds her, Lacus tells Athrun that Kira is alive (he was the Strike's pilot) and is now piloting the Freedom. She then tells him to think about what he should really be fighting for instead of following his father's orders or feeling bound to his military duty and that he should determine what he believes to be right. She proceeds to tell him that he should go to Earth and speak with Kira. Athrun eventually finds Kira in Orb, engaged in combat with the Earth Sphere Alliance forces. Athrun then makes his choice and steps in to save his friend. As the enemy mobile suits retreat, the two friends try to work out their differences. Neither wanted to be the other's enemy and both wanted to end the War. But in order to do this, both friends would have to abandon their nation's militaries. Uncertain at first, Athrun makes no promises, but he eventually aids Kira during the fall of Orb, instead of battling him and retrieving the Freedom like he has been ordered to.]]

* Percy Weasley in ''{{Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix}}''.

The classic alignment debate for {{Lawful Good}} characters. For whatever reason, a {{Lawful Good}} character has encountered a situation where doing the right thing involves breaking a law, personal code, or a binding rule that makes the character {{The Fettered}}. The character [[MoralDilemma must then decide]] to either break the law and move towards {{Neutral Good}}, or put the law of the land first and become more {{Lawful Neutral}}.

1: The character [[HeelFaceTurn switches sides]], [[VigilanteMan breaks the law]], or [[TheUnfettered removes his moral restraints]] [[ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight in the name of doing the right thing]]. This can result in a full alignment change to {{Neutral Good}} or at least shake the character's stance, and also will often put the character at odds with other lawful characters. Woe betide a hero who does this if they have {{Lawful Evil}} superiors.

2: The character wants to help, but [[TheFettered cannot bring himself to break the established laws, codes or rules.]] Maybe they believe that a breaking of the rules will result in worse things, maybe they think that it is their job to be the force of order, leaving law breaking up to the {{Vigilante Man}}, or maybe they weren't as assured in their morals as they thought and the idea of doing something not enshrined in law scares them too much. If the moral oversight was too great, may result in them sliding {{Lawful Neutral}} or, in the case of really big infractions or cases of {{My Master Right or Wrong}} or {{My Country Right or Wrong}} may lead them into becoming a {{Worthy Opponent}} or {{Noble Demon}} type of character, establishing them as a villain or causing previously heroic characters to effectively undergo a {{Face Heel Turn}}. If called out, they may try to deny responsibility by saying that they're JustFollowingOrders.

3: Clever characters find a [[TakeAThirdOption third option]]. Maybe they tell something FromACertainPointOfView. Failing that, they may not be able to interfere themselves, but they'll contact the proper authorities or get a less Lawful character to act on their behalf, leading to a rescue by {{The Cavalry}}. Also, {{Lawful Good}} doesn't mean {{Lawful Stupid}}, and a character may consider that not acting would be an even greater violation of his code or law system than holding back and letting things go through.

This is somewhat a {{Truth In Television}}, as many times in history humans have had to choose between what the law system expects of them and what their conscience or the circumstances demand. Despite this, no {{Real Life}} examples please.

*Hermione of {{Harry Potter}} starts off as a well meaning but very lawful student, always mindful of the rules and scornful of Harry and Ron's breaking of them. (In the case of the midnight duel, quite rightly.) However, circumstances eventually force her to loosen up on the Lawful side as it becomes clear that quietly following the rules is not going to help matters. [[spoiler: Harry and Ron breaking school rules to save her life from a troll probably helped that conclusion...]]
* Captain Will Laurance of the {{Temeraire}} series. [[spoiler: When the British government plans to spread a plague among the French dragons that will likely spread to kill off most of the dragons in the world, he feels morally compelled to bring the French the cure, even though it's an act of treason against his own country.]] And after all that, he's ''still'' Lawful enough to [[spoiler: go right back to Britain and let himself be arrested for it. Indeed, he expect's to be executed for it, and rejects merely going into voluntary exile to save his skin. He transgressed and had to face the music.]]
* Inspector Javert of LesMiserables believes himself to be LawfulGood throughout the book, but is forced by [[TheAtoner Valjean]] to confront the possibility (not the relative merits, the mere existence) of ChaoticGood.

[[AC: {{Live Action TV}}]]

* Absolutely everybody on ''{{Farscape}}'' makes this choice more than once, though in fairness most of the time the law - whether the insane {{Human Aliens}} peacekeepers or the US government - is so cracked and murderous that it's barely a choice.
* {{Robocop}} (the TV version) once ran into this conundrum, where he had to either steal a piece of technology that could be used as a weapon, or let a hostage potentially die. However, his directives, in order, are to (1) Serve the public trust, (2) protect the innocent, and (3) uphold the law. Directive 2 wins out over Directive 3 by priority.

[[AC: {{Video Games}}]]

*PhoenixWright and Miles Edgeworth both are faced with this decision the former in [[spoiler: Turnabout Goodbyes]] and the latter in Turnabout Ablaze. Both choose [[spoiler: to reveal the truth even if they are defying their station in the justice system.]]

[[AC: {{Web Comics}}]]
*Roy of {{The Order Of The Stick}} has his lawful credentials called into question by a character. (who will remain nondescript for the sake of avoiding spoilers.) At the end of the interview however, the being, a creature of pure {{Lawful Good}}, cannot class Roy as {{Neutral Good}} because for all his failings, Roy is trying, and cannot be held to the same standards as pure forces of {{Lawful Good}}.

* Cale, from ''LookingForGroup'' wants to be LawfulGood but lives in an EvilEmpire. He mixes options 1& 3, defying the Empire so he can create a LawFulGood kingdom.

* In {{Bleach}}, Byakuya Kuchiki is hit with this when he must choose between upholding the law of the land and allowing his adopted sister ([[spoiler:and sister-in-law]]) Rukia to be executed and [[spoiler:following his late wife's request to protect her little sister]]. He chooses the former, [[spoiler:but is immensely relieved when Ichigo ends up rescuing Rukia anyway. He only fights Ichigo out of a sense of duty, hence why he said he would cave to Ichigo's opposite viewpoint [[DefeatMeansFriendship only if Ichigo could defeat him.]]]].
* Near the end of GundamSEED, Athrun Zala was in this situation. After returning to ZAFT, he was awarded the Order of the Nebula for the achievement of [[spoiler:destroying the Strike Gundam]], and is chosen to be under the direct command of the PLANT Supreme Council and assigned the newly developed Justice Gundam. He is ordered to [[spoiler:track and retrieve the Freedom Gundam, which has been stolen by Kira Yamato, with the aid of his fiancee Lacus Clyne. Lacus is accused of treason and Athrun couldn't believe it. Once he finds her, Lacus tells Athrun that Kira is alive (he was the Strike's pilot) and is now piloting the Freedom. She then tells him to think about what he should really be fighting for instead of following his father's orders or feeling bound to his military duty and that he should determine what he believes to be right. She proceeds to tell him that he should go to Earth and speak with Kira. Athrun eventually finds Kira in Orb, engaged in combat with the Earth Sphere Alliance forces. Athrun then makes his choice and steps in to save his friend. As the enemy mobile suits retreat, the two friends try to work out their differences. Neither wanted to be the other's enemy and both wanted to end the War. But in order to do this, both friends would have to abandon their nation's militaries. Uncertain at first, Athrun makes no promises, but he eventually aids Kira during the fall of Orb, instead of battling him and retrieving the Freedom like he has been ordered to.]]

* G(a)linda from {{Wicked}}. While her best friend Elphaba chooses to do what is right, she decides to do what is legal. She later regrets it, learning throughout the second act to TakeAThirdOption.

[[AC: Examples of characters who {{Take A Third Option}}]]

* As a classic Lawful Good alignment debate, a very common problem for all {{Dungeons and Dragons}} {{Lawful Good}} characters, especially paladins, is solving such moral dilemmas. If roleplay is good (not "Me smash evil. Me bring justice") and the adventure is not a plain hack-n-slash. Interestingly enough [=DMs=] very rarely make characters have to make decisions between being chaotic and being good... A double standard, or just inherent in the nature of the two alignments?
** The above probably accounts for why, in 4th Edition, they did away with Chaotic Good completely: you're either Lawful Good, and thus "bound" to honor both the tenents of good and the rules of law, or else you're Good, and you get to say [[ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight "Screw the Rules, I'm Doing What's Right".]] Somewhat annoyingly, the system also cut out Lawful Neutral, leaving a void where those who want to say "Screw What's Right, I'm Following the Rules" would belong (beyond being "Unaligned" and declaring that's the character's behavior).

* Negi of MahouSenseiNegima tends to swing back and forth depending on the situation. For example, he opposes [[spoiler: [[AntiVillain Chao Lingshen]]]] simply because if he doesn't, he'll be [[BalefulPolymorph turned into an ermine]], and she can't give him a good enough reason to justify making that sacrifice. On most other occasions, he tends to bend or outright ignore any rules that get in the way of doing what is truly good.

Rather than save the villain he knows will go and kill more people, he rationalizes that letting him fall off a cliff isn't ''technically'' breaking any law... and while pulling him up would be the Right(TM) thing to do, not pulling him up isn't a terribly evil action, especially if [[PayEvilUntoEvil they were mean]] to [[KickTheDog the dog earlier,]] and even more especially if [[TheDogBitesBack something else is likely to catch up with the villain in the near future, anyway.]]

Rather than save the villain he knows will go and kill more people, he rationalizes that letting him fall off a cliff isn't ''technically'' breaking any law... and while pulling him up would be the Right(TM) thing to do, not pulling him up isn't a terribly evil action, especially if [[PayEvilUntoEvil they were mean]] to [[KickTheDog the dog earlier.]]