History Main / TheBattlestar

30th Jul '16 1:01:55 PM nombretomado
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* The various planetoid-class Ships-of-the-Line in DavidWeber's ''Literature/EmpireFromTheAshes'' trilogy count (except for the ''Trosan''-class). [[UpToEleven Massive ships]] [[ThatsNoMoon the size of the Moon]], [[LightningBruiser capable of ridiculous speed]], mounting extensive [[BeamSpam energy]] and [[MacrossMissileMassacre missile]] batteries, and carrying a complement of parasite craft. Said parasite craft consist of separate battleships, cruisers, and two-man fighters. And the Fourth Empire had [[WeHaveReserves almost a million of them]]. [[spoiler: Just 70 of these almost completely annihilate a millions-strong AlienInvasion fleet.]]

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* The various planetoid-class Ships-of-the-Line in DavidWeber's Creator/DavidWeber's ''Literature/EmpireFromTheAshes'' trilogy count (except for the ''Trosan''-class). [[UpToEleven Massive ships]] [[ThatsNoMoon the size of the Moon]], [[LightningBruiser capable of ridiculous speed]], mounting extensive [[BeamSpam energy]] and [[MacrossMissileMassacre missile]] batteries, and carrying a complement of parasite craft. Said parasite craft consist of separate battleships, cruisers, and two-man fighters. And the Fourth Empire had [[WeHaveReserves almost a million of them]]. [[spoiler: Just 70 of these almost completely annihilate a millions-strong AlienInvasion fleet.]]
28th Jul '16 11:37:45 AM tkzv
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* Unusually ''averted'' in the granddaddy of all technoporn space operas, ''Literature/{{Lensman}}''. With the exception of some heavy cruisers and very fast scouts, virtually everything is a capital ship. There are no 'fighters' or light bombing craft at all.

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* Unusually ''averted'' in the granddaddy of all technoporn space operas, ''Literature/{{Lensman}}''. With the exception of some heavy cruisers and very fast scouts, virtually everything is a capital ship. There are no 'fighters' or light bombing craft at all. Probably because the series started in the 1930s, when few people realized the potential of carriers.
13th Jul '16 6:48:27 PM ScrewySqrl
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In RealLife wet navies, it does not work. Battleships and carriers require very different paradigms; the former are built for taking and dealing out heavy damage, which demands certain armor and armament characteristics, such as compartmentalization to minimize damage spread but also cut into holding space. Fighter landing strips, hangars and the stores for their fuel and munitions would detract from this role, leaving you with a MasterOfNone that cannot fight or tank as well as a pure combatant or service as many fighters as a pure carrier. This didn't stop some attempts from being made. When initially launched in the late 1920s, the USS ''Lexington'' and ''Saratoga'' had a complement of cruiser-class 8-inch guns. Japan put similar 8-inch guns in casemates on the sides of ''Akagi'' and ''Kaga'', but they proved to be generally useless. Japan also created hybrid Battleship/seaplane carriers out of a couple of old battleships, ''Ise'' and ''Hyuga'' in the wake of losses at Midway. The naysayers turned out to be right: ''Ise'' and ''Hyuga'' were total failures, and the large guns on the US ships interfered with flight operations if actually used, and they were removed in 1941. Other experiments never got even this far.

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In RealLife wet navies, it does not work. Battleships and carriers require very different paradigms; the former are built for taking and dealing out heavy damage, which demands certain armor and armament characteristics, such as compartmentalization to minimize damage spread but also cut into holding space. Fighter landing strips, hangars and the stores for their fuel and munitions would detract from this role, leaving you with a MasterOfNone that cannot fight or tank as well as a pure combatant or service as many fighters as a pure carrier. This didn't stop some attempts from being made. When initially launched in the late 1920s, the USS ''Lexington'' and ''Saratoga'' had a complement of cruiser-class 8-inch guns. Japan put similar 8-inch guns in casemates on the sides of ''Akagi'' and ''Kaga'', ''Kaga''. The reasoning behind the guns was so they could defend themselves if ambushed at night or in bad weather when planes couldn't fly, but they proved to be generally useless.useless - the necessary high speed of carriers was a better defense. Japan also created hybrid Battleship/seaplane carriers out of a couple of old battleships, ''Ise'' and ''Hyuga'' in the wake of losses at Midway. The naysayers turned out to be right: ''Ise'' and ''Hyuga'' were total failures, and the large guns on the US ships interfered with flight operations if actually used, and they were removed in 1941. The 8-inch casemates were going to be removed from Kaga and Akagi after the Battle of midway, but the ships were sunk first. Other experiments never got even this far.
13th Jul '16 2:32:04 PM TheKaizerreich
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* Also from the IJN, the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine I-400 class submarine aircraft carrier]]. Well armed for a submarine with torpedos and a deck gun, it also carried a full squadron of three float planes. Given the late nature of the war, it was speculated they would instead execute Kamikaze attack, making it closer to a modern ballistic missile submarine.

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* Also from the IJN, the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400-class_submarine I-400 class submarine aircraft carrier]]. Well armed for a submarine with torpedos and a deck gun, it also carried a full squadron of three float planes. Given the late nature of the war, it was speculated they would instead execute Kamikaze attack, making it closer to a modern ballistic missile submarine. Alternatively, the planes could carry bombs with biological weapons and use them against population centres such as Los Angeles but thankfully, they never got to this point.
2nd Jul '16 12:08:23 AM UmbrellasWereAwesome
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*** While the SDF-1 itself was did carry a substantial air wing of its own, half of its actual effective air wing (and more than two thirds of it in the Movie/Post-Refit incarnation) comes from the two ships permanently docked as its "arms" - specifically the ''Prometheus'' aircraft carrier in the TV series and manga, and the two ''ARMD''-class space carriers in the Movie/Refit version.

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*** While the SDF-1 itself was did carry a substantial air wing of its own, half of its actual effective air wing (and more than two thirds of it in the Movie/Post-Refit ''[[Anime/MacrossDoYouRememberLove Do You Remember Love?]]''/Post-Refit incarnation) comes from the two ships permanently docked as its "arms" - specifically the ''Prometheus'' aircraft carrier in the TV series and manga, and the two ''ARMD''-class space carriers in the Movie/Refit ''DYRL?''/Refit version.
27th Jun '16 11:40:20 AM ScrewySqrl
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In RealLife wet navies, it does not work. Battleships and carriers require very different paradigms; the former are built for taking and dealing out heavy damage, which demands certain armor and armament characteristics, such as compartmentalization to minimize damage spread but also cut into holding space. Fighter landing strips, hangars and the stores for their fuel and munitions would detract from this role, leaving you with a MasterOfNone that cannot fight or tank as well as a pure combatant or service as many fighters as a pure carrier. This didn't stop some attempts from being made. When initially launched in the late 1920s, the USS ''Lexington'' and ''Saratoga'' had a complement of cruiser-class 8-inch guns. Japan created hybrid Battleship/seaplane carriers out of a couple of old battleships, ''Ise'' and ''Hyuga'' in the wake of losses at Midway. The naysayers turned out to be right: ''Ise'' and ''Hyuga'' were total failures, and the large guns on the US ships interfered with flight operations if actually used, and they were removed in 1941. Other experiments never got even this far.

to:

In RealLife wet navies, it does not work. Battleships and carriers require very different paradigms; the former are built for taking and dealing out heavy damage, which demands certain armor and armament characteristics, such as compartmentalization to minimize damage spread but also cut into holding space. Fighter landing strips, hangars and the stores for their fuel and munitions would detract from this role, leaving you with a MasterOfNone that cannot fight or tank as well as a pure combatant or service as many fighters as a pure carrier. This didn't stop some attempts from being made. When initially launched in the late 1920s, the USS ''Lexington'' and ''Saratoga'' had a complement of cruiser-class 8-inch guns. Japan put similar 8-inch guns in casemates on the sides of ''Akagi'' and ''Kaga'', but they proved to be generally useless. Japan also created hybrid Battleship/seaplane carriers out of a couple of old battleships, ''Ise'' and ''Hyuga'' in the wake of losses at Midway. The naysayers turned out to be right: ''Ise'' and ''Hyuga'' were total failures, and the large guns on the US ships interfered with flight operations if actually used, and they were removed in 1941. Other experiments never got even this far.
21st Jun '16 7:26:55 PM SuddenFrost
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** Screenwriter and sci-fi author DavidGerrold also stated in his standalone works that the distances involved in real space warfare would be to great for the idea to work, and consequently submarine warfare was a more accurate analogy.

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** Screenwriter and sci-fi author DavidGerrold also stated in his standalone works that the distances involved in real space warfare would be to too great for the idea to work, and consequently submarine warfare was a more accurate analogy.



* ''TabletopGame/JovianChronicles'': The Jovian Godsfire class super carrier and the CEGA Poseidon class Battleship. Somewhat justified that both were originally designed as battleships, but had exo and fighter bays added later on. The Valiant carrier qualifies due to its Wave Motion Gun described below.

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* ''TabletopGame/JovianChronicles'': The Jovian Godsfire class Godsfire-class super carrier and the CEGA Poseidon class Battleship.Poseidon-class battleship. Somewhat justified that both were originally designed as battleships, but had exo and fighter bays added later on. The later Valiant carrier qualifies and Majestic carriers qualify due to its Wave Motion Gun described below.their [[WaveMotionGun spinal lasers]].
21st Jun '16 9:33:27 AM RichardX1
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Not to be confused with the 1981 game show ''Series/{{Battlestars}}'' or the elite Autobot fighters from ''[[Manga/TransformersZone Transformers: Return of Convoy]]''.

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Not to be confused with the 1981 game show ''Series/{{Battlestars}}'' or ''Series/{{Battlestars}}'', the elite Autobot fighters from ''[[Manga/TransformersZone Transformers: Return of Convoy]]''.Convoy]]'', or [[Characters/CaptainAmerica John Walker's former sidekick]].
19th Jun '16 2:09:52 PM ScorpiusOB1
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* The [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ise_class_battleship Ise-class battleships]] ''Ise'' and ''Hyuga'' were converted into hybrid battleship-carriers (航空戦艦, Kōkū Senkan (Aviation Battleship), USN Classification: BBV) during World War Two, removing two of their rear turrets in exchange for small flight decks and a capacity of 22 seaplanes and divebombers. The small size of the flight deck meant that their utility as carriers are comparable to that of an escort carrier at best, and due to the lack of both planes and flight crews, their operational use ended up rather unsuccessful, to the point where the ships continued to be employed as pure battleships right up until their career as warships effectively ended during the Battle off Cape Engaño, where they as part of the pitiful remnants of Japanese aircraft carrier forces were overwhelmed by swarms of American fighter-bombers, and suffered the indignity of being reduced to floating anti-aircraft batteries for the remainder of their lives. In retrospect, their seaplanes would have been useful as scouts and anti-submarine patrols (both of which the Japanese ''desperately'' needed in face of US Navy's superior radar technology and extensive use of submarines), scenarios where the battleships' guns and airplanes would be out of each others' ways to begin with. But then again, by the time the battleship-carriers came on-line, Japan already had trouble building enough of ''any'' plane.

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* The [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ise_class_battleship Ise-class battleships]] ''Ise'' and ''Hyuga'' were converted into hybrid battleship-carriers (航空戦艦, Kōkū Senkan (Aviation Battleship), USN Classification: BBV) during World War Two, removing two of their rear turrets in exchange for small flight decks and a capacity of 22 seaplanes and divebombers. The small size of the flight deck meant that their utility as carriers are comparable to that of an escort carrier at best, and due to the lack of both planes and flight crews, their operational use ended up rather unsuccessful, to the point where the ships continued to be employed as pure battleships right up until their career as warships effectively ended during the Battle off Cape Engaño, where they as part of the pitiful remnants of Japanese aircraft carrier forces were overwhelmed by swarms of American fighter-bombers, and suffered the indignity of being reduced to floating anti-aircraft batteries for the remainder of their lives. In retrospect, their seaplanes would have been useful as scouts and anti-submarine patrols (both of which the Japanese ''desperately'' needed in face of US Navy's superior radar technology and extensive use of submarines), scenarios where the battleships' guns and airplanes would be out of each others' ways to begin with. But then again, by the time the battleship-carriers came on-line, Japan already had trouble building enough of ''any'' plane.plane[[note]]It should be noted Japan's original plans were to convert ''all'' their battleships except ''Yamato'' and ''Musashi'' into full-fledged aircraft carriers, but that a lack of resources forced them to make that conversion instead.[[/note]].
17th Jun '16 9:15:15 AM ChronoLegion
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* The TC/USNA ''America'' in the ''Literature/StarCarrier'' series is primarily used as a carrier with several ways of launching its [[ReactionlessDrive grav]]-fighters (a single fighter is potentially capable of taking down several capital ships). When not launching fighters out of its spinal magnetic accelerators, those can be used to launch kinetic kill slugs instead. While they don't pack as much a punch as dedicated railgun battleships, the ''America'' can still pack quite a punch. Given the distances involved in space combat and the lack of [[SubspaceAnsible FTL communication]] or sensors means that firing unguided munitions at a ship several light minutes away is useless, as your sensor data is that many minutes old. Standard tactics involve for the carrier dropping out of [[FasterThanLightTravel meta-space]] to launch fighters immediately for a near-c strike prior to the arrival of the (much slower) main fleet to the enemy. With any luck, the enemy will detect the arrival of the fleet only seconds before the near-c strike.
** The nature of the grav-fighter propulsion (singularity projection) means that, for the most part, they really can maneuver like a jet fighter in air. Even better, in fact, as gravity forces acting on the fighter and the pilot are largely uniform, meaning a fighter can perform a tight turn at several hundred G-forces and not even feel it by projecting a singularity to the side and slingshotting around it.

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* The TC/USNA ''America'' in the ''Literature/StarCarrier'' series is primarily used as a carrier with several ways of launching its her [[ReactionlessDrive grav]]-fighters (a single fighter is potentially capable of taking down several capital ships). When not launching fighters out of its her spinal magnetic accelerators, those can be used to launch kinetic kill slugs instead. While they don't pack as much a punch as dedicated railgun battleships, the ''America'' can still pack quite a punch. Given the distances involved in space combat and the lack of [[SubspaceAnsible FTL communication]] or sensors means that firing unguided munitions at a ship several light minutes away is useless, as your sensor data is that many minutes old. Standard tactics involve for the carrier dropping out of [[FasterThanLightTravel meta-space]] to launch fighters immediately for a near-c strike prior to the arrival of the (much slower) main fleet to the enemy. With any luck, the enemy will detect the arrival of the fleet only seconds before the near-c strike.
** The nature of the grav-fighter propulsion (singularity projection) means that, for the most part, they really can maneuver like a jet fighter in air. Even better, in fact, as gravity forces acting on the fighter and the pilot are largely uniform, meaning a fighter can perform a tight turn at several hundred G-forces and not even feel it (beyond the normal sense of perpetual falling) by projecting a singularity to the side and slingshotting around it.



* In Creator/MikhailAkhmanov's ''Literature/ArrivalsFromTheDark'' books, most human capital ships carry a fighter complement in addition to their weapons. This even applies in the first novel ''Invasion'', set during humanity's pre-interstellar years. A typical cruiser (since this is a Russian novel, a heavy cruiser is equivalent to what a Western sci-fi author would call a battleship) carries several dozen aerospace fighters, and even a frigate is expected to carry at least a pair of them. Since, at the time, the SpaceNavy's primary tasks include protecting Earth and the Solar System colonies from asteroids and act as a rapid reaction force against terrorists and rogue states on Earth, the fighters are very important. After the failed [[HumanAlien Faata]] invasion (whose own huge starship does not qualify, as it lacks weapons of its own, relying on its armada of AntiMatter-armed battle modules), humans study the remains of their craft and build their own starships, kilometer-long cruisers with powerful weapons (including a [[FixedForwardFacingWeapon forward-mounted]] AntiMatter gun) and capable of launching over a hundred fighters each. The frigate commanded by the second novel's protagonist carries two fighters, which can also be piloted remotely.

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* In Creator/MikhailAkhmanov's ''Literature/ArrivalsFromTheDark'' books, most human capital ships carry a fighter complement in addition to their weapons. This even applies in the first novel ''Invasion'', set during humanity's pre-interstellar years. A typical cruiser (since this is a Russian novel, a heavy cruiser is equivalent to what a Western sci-fi author would call a battleship) carries several dozen aerospace fighters, and even a frigate is expected to carry at least a pair of them.them (corvettes generally don't, but they're never actually described in detail). Since, at the time, the SpaceNavy's primary tasks include protecting Earth and the Solar System colonies from asteroids and act as a rapid reaction force against terrorists and rogue states on Earth, the fighters are very important. After the failed [[HumanAlien Faata]] invasion (whose own huge starship does not qualify, as it lacks weapons of its own, relying on its armada of AntiMatter-armed battle modules), humans study the remains of their craft and build their own starships, kilometer-long cruisers with powerful weapons (including a [[FixedForwardFacingWeapon forward-mounted]] AntiMatter gun) and capable of launching over a hundred fighters each. The frigate commanded by the second novel's protagonist carries two fighters, which can also be piloted remotely.



* [[SpacePolice Star Patrol]] in ''TachyonTheFringe'' have cruisers which appear to combine the characteristics of several different classes: speed/maneuverability of a frigate, firepower of a cruiser, and fighter-carrying capability of a carrier. Unfortunately, their capabilities are never shown in the game, which is focused on fighter combat.

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* [[SpacePolice Star Patrol]] in ''TachyonTheFringe'' have cruisers which appear to combine the characteristics of several different classes: speed/maneuverability of a frigate, firepower of a cruiser, and fighter-carrying capability of a carrier. Unfortunately, their capabilities are never shown in the game, which is focused on fighter combat. However, even dedicated carriers appear to have enough firepower to take out frigates with their turrets. During the final Bora mission, [[MegaCorp GalSpan]] Regional Director Atkins's flagship ''Zeus'', a carrier, blows away the latest Bora frigate with a single volley.


Added DiffLines:

* All carriers in ''VideoGame/BattlestationHarbinger'' have at least a few normal weapon hardpoints besides their SpaceFighter/AttackDrone bays. Since the game doesn't limit what weapon scan be mounted onto a hardpoint, there's nothing wrong with flying a light carrier with two squadrons of fighters/drones/bombers, while also mounting a [[NukeEm nuclear missile launcher]] and a [[WaveMotionGun death ray]]. True, such a ship would likely not have good survivability in close combat due to low HP and shield strength, but she might make for a good mid-range combatant, especially with the fighters keeping the enemy busy. Heavier carriers are more in line with this, featuring tougher ships with more weapon hardpoints and, possibly, more bays.
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